Craig Constantine and Ron Decter discuss the importance of moving towards dialogue rather than a typical Q&A format, making podcasts more engaging.
Summary
Ron’s podcast, Simplest State, invites you to explore the mysteries of higher consciousness and the potential of the human mind. They also discuss the struggle of describing one’s show in a few words, highlighting the importance of clarity and coherence in conveying its essence to potential listeners.
Simplest State is for anyone who’s ever felt that there’s something more to life than the mundane, that there’s something beyond the daily routine of life or someone who’s ever felt that the power of the mind is something much more than we have harnessed so far.
~ Ron Decter, 10’48"
Episode Audio
Takeaways
Embracing Dialogue in Podcasting: The conversation highlights the value of moving towards more conversational podcast formats. Shifting away from a journalistic question-and-answer style can add depth and authenticity to interviews, making the content more engaging for both guests and listeners.
Exploring Profound Topics: Ron Decter’s podcast, “Simplest State,” serves as a platform to explore profound subjects like higher consciousness, the power of the mind, and the philosophical aspects of the universe. Creating podcasts that delve into deep and thought-provoking themes can attract a niche audience seeking intellectual and spiritual exploration.
The Importance of Defining a Podcast’s Essence: The conversation underscores the significance of clearly defining a podcast’s essence in concise language. Using exercises like Eric Nuzum’s 10-word challenge can help creators refine their vision, leading to a better understanding of their content’s purpose and attracting the right audience for their show.
Resources
Simplest State — Ron’s podcast can be found wherever you normally listen.
Make Noise — Eric Nuzum’s book mentioned in this conversation.
Transcript
00:00.27
Craig
Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Welcome to Podtalk, short conversations with podcast creators that are not just about podcasting… because I like to take the scenic route. My guest today is Ron Decter. Welcome, Ron! How are you this afternoon? I don’t know what time zone you’re in. I’m sorry.
00:17.80
Ron
Yes, it is afternoon and good afternoon to you Craig. It’s really a pleasure to be here and thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show with you.
Continue reading…
00:27.72
Craig
You’re very welcome as we were discussing upfront. Um, it took a while but I’m really happy. Um I really love when people do what you did which is like ignore like. Hey would be on the show. No, we be the show we like I’ll get through like is there’ long delay. But then when you do show up. It’s with no warning I love it. It’s like Christmas I get this random Wednesday Ron pops up my tone I’m like oh yes, sorry sometimes Craig gets a little excited. Um I want to talk but.
00:51.21
Ron
No worries. Well all along ah sorry to talk over you all along the intention. The intentions were good I was always planning to accept your very kind and generous invitation. But as podcasters of.
00:57.10
Craig
No, you light one? um.
01:09.96
Ron
Experienced and I as I think anyone who has any pursuits as experience life intervenes from time to time we don’t get to do things according to the schedule that we hope for.
01:15.78
Craig
Um, life haven’t.
01:22.29
Craig
Um, that leads me to the obvious question might be to ask about your podcast but instead I want to know um tell me more about you started the show. We’re just going to tease people and not say the name just it. You can say the name you started the show. But you actually started podcasting like somebody gave you a mic like tell me about when this person handed you the blue yeti and said dude talk to this. Ah, how did you get the mindset shift from I had never thought of that. 2 I’m going to take a course and I’m actually going to try and become a podcaster.
01:59.49
Ron
Yeah, very good question I hadn’t ever thought of doing a podcast I’ve always been somewhat of an actor an ad leopardist a comedian. Just among friends of course only in the most comfortable situations not in anything that would actually test me and you know I took a couple of semesters of acting it was something that always interested me a friend of mine who knows me very well.
02:19.81
Craig
That’s a very good point.
02:34.65
Ron
Gave me a blue yetdy microphone as a gift and said you know rund you should have a podcast you really should have a podcast. You’d be a natural at it and I sort of thought oh yeah, yeah, right? I’ll do a podcast. Yeah and David Letterman here you know I’ll I’ll do something and who is going to listen to it.
02:48.24
Craig
It is.
02:54.76
Ron
Um, but over time with gentle urgings from some friends I did discip. Well you know it might be really nice to do a podcast and then so this specific show is called simplest state. And the podcasting they began together because before I even started I was thinking what am I going to do it on and the idea of doing it on this particular subject emerged in my mind over time and I looked at various options for learning how to podcast and certainly. All the resources are there on Youtube and on the internet you can. Absolutely you. You don’t even need to take well I wish I was more of an auto dad I would not have taken the course that I did where I had the good fortune to meet you.
03:32.51
Craig
Right? It’s just totally a solved and ah and you’re definitely an auto dieac. Oh my god.
03:47.60
Craig
Um, good point.
03:50.23
Ron
But I realized I needed something that was a bit of a kickstar and that’s what I took that workshop and it got me going. It’s not a finished product not by any means it’s far far from it but it got me started and that’s you know wellbe begun is half done correct.
03:54.30
Craig
Um.
04:06.62
Craig
No.
04:09.28
Ron
So if you have to make a start is is already ah a great step forward in my particular case.
04:15.29
Craig
Yes I think it’s a piece of Eastern Wisdom which is if there’s some place you need to be. You need to start walking which which I use the reminds of other leg just just start course correct later. Did you? Um, how long did it take you.
04:24.95
Ron
Um, yes, yes, yeah, right.
04:33.92
Craig
Ah, so here’s the question I Really want to ask So I’m just going to ask it how much of you have a ah very clear I’m going to say vision. But I don’t mean like you’re not actually also doing it. You have a very clear vision about what you’re trying to communicate with your podcast. How much of the clarity. Came from trying to build a podcast like and having to think through the really clear questions that everybody else is going to ask about your idea like or did you have it. It was all in your head but you just didn’t know how to get it out in the world and then oh microphone now I have the final piece like how much of the clarity comes from the process and how much of the. Process comes from the clarity.
05:13.10
Ron
I would say a great deal of it excuse me a great deal of it comes from the process because although I did have and do have it very clearly in my head. What I’ve produced so far doesn’t match up. It doesn’t correspond with that vision that I have in my head I’ve I’ve fallen quite short of where I want to be with this podcast I thought I would have done more with it by now. But as I said earlier.
05:31.69
Craig
Um.
05:47.45
Ron
Life Intervenes we are met with distractions although going through the process has clarified in my mind what I need to do what I want to do to make it the kind of program that I truly envision.
06:02.23
Craig
Um, sometimes I think I should see how far we can get into these conversations before we tell people what we’re talking because we haven’t told them yet what this show is and then people are just like guys. Seriously I’m gonna press pause I’m go go search. Um, do you find? um.
06:12.53
Ron
I.
06:20.32
Craig
Okay, so to both tell me about the shortfall so you’re saying that and and I don’t want to hear like your only 5 episodes in because 5 episodes is awesome because podcasting is lonely hard work congrats so I don’t want to hear about only thought I’d be further along in number I want to know what is it when you I have a hard time listening to my work. Do you have a hard time listening to your work.
06:30.20
Ron
Thank you.
06:40.30
Craig
What is it about the podcast itself that makes you go. This is not fully formed.
06:49.31
Ron
What I learned in in recording these 5 episodes and producing them and putting them out. There is that I know I know it’s it’s a misnomer to say it’s what I’ve learned It’s not what I’ve learned. It’s what I think when I hear it. And what I think when I hear it is my podcast should be more conversational and less question answer interview style because although I’ve had some fascinating guests and although they’ve spoken brilliantly I feel that for a listener a conversation would be more.
07:12.35
Craig
Oh.
07:27.50
Ron
Delectable than just question and answer.
07:32.97
Craig
Um, I actually danced a little jig as he said I actually did my little stupid dance I’m just like yes, please more of that. Um I totally agree with you. There are very few Well I’m going to say in.
07:42.73
Ron
Um.
07:49.27
Craig
Straight up journalism I think q and a is a good thing. Um because it helps make it um like flip this around thequee a q and a is great in journalism because it helps the reporter be ah ah, opposite of present ah disappear you don’t want the um the reporter like in the way of the thing. Um. But I think in conversation it makes it much more of because that’s easily what it is. It makes much more of a dialogue much more of a dance much more of 2 minds I like to call it a social object which comes from a kind of Hugh Mccloud and gaping void is a great website but he talks about like the social object is the thing that one of us holds up. And it is the thing around which we can now have an interaction. It’s much harder to interact without a thing to be the social object between us.
08:33.99
Ron
Absolutely, That’s exactly the process I went through because at the beginning my thinking was this is about them. So it’s not about me much the same way as the reporter in your analogy. So I thought let’s say it’d be about them.
08:42.24
Craig
Open and.
08:53.90
Ron
They will do all the talking I will ask the questions and lead the conversation but this is for them to express what they would like to express and that is well and good. But as you said a conversation I think.
09:03.37
Craig
M.
09:09.50
Ron
Is something much more interesting for the listener than a Q and a.
09:15.16
Craig
Yeah, there’s something pregnant isn’t the right word. There’s something ah I need to I need to grammarify the word potential to work in the sentence. There’s something potential there. There is a potential to com something like my grammar fails me.
09:27.94
Ron
Yes, yes, Yes, oh yeah, no that sure because because you don’t know then where it’ll go. There’s greater spontaneity. It’s it’s a dialogue as opposed to a monologue and and I mean in fairness, my podcasts weren’t.
09:32.34
Craig
There’s a potential in conversation. Yeah.
09:39.43
Craig
Yeah.
09:47.89
Ron
Monologues these people weren’t reading pre-prepared statements or anything they were doing most of the talking but certainly not a monologue but it’s I think the more you move towards dialogue the better in my case I can’t say that for.
09:54.80
Craig
Yeah.
10:01.68
Craig
We lot. It’s certainly my case. That’s that’s like my wheelhouse I I started doing these types of conversations that we’re doing right now on a different show and I I did like 120 episodes or something and then I then I realized like oh.
10:05.41
Ron
Every podcast of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:19.93
Craig
But I actually love is doing the thing not so much the top I mean I Love the topic too. But I realized it wasn’t the topic that is the thing I loved most about that Show. It was doing the I enjoyed like the the hate to say performance I enjoyed the conversation. As much as I enjoyed talking about the particular topic. So That’s why I love these because on or on um, ah, do you want to unpack what simplest state is we need to do that are people going to kill us. But.
10:36.70
Ron
It’s right? Absolutely now.
10:48.86
Ron
Absolutely yeah, Well, that would be a pleasure. Um, simplest State is for anyone who’s ever felt that there’s something more to life than the mundane that there’s something beyond. Daily routine of life or someone who’s ever felt that you know the the power of the mind is something much more than we have harnessed so far you know I don’t know how old you are, but when I was a little kid Comic books.
11:17.34
Craig
I I will be 52 in the near future.
11:23.72
Ron
All right that was did not need to be disclosed but thank ah but um comic books used to have this little thing at the back a coupon to contact the rosy Crucians the power of the mind.
11:29.70
Craig
Um, look it up on the interwest.
11:40.98
Craig
Um.
11:41.66
Ron
And I remember as a kid I don’t know 6 seven years old I sent that coupon in probably probably many I did I I didn’t know what it was but I knew gosh I mean my mind I should be able to do anything and.
11:45.98
Craig
Um, dad must aid you.
11:59.29
Ron
They said a bunch of pamphlets which I never read. Um, it seemed too religious or quasiligious to me I still to this day I don’t know what the Ro secret what they are or what they do, but then.
12:06.56
Craig
No.
12:14.51
Ron
In my teens I started reading books on the power of the mind I started reading books on zen buddhism by DTSuzuki by Alan Watts and then I read Richard Albert’s book baba ramass be here now and something.
12:20.11
Craig
Me.
12:33.88
Ron
Awakened in me the the understanding the realization that there are higher states of consciousness that there are higher statess of creativity and it’s something that I’d felt intuitively somewhat even through very young years but had no. Specific knowledge of it. So Simplest State is a podcast for anyone who felt that there is something more out there. Someone who’s even interested in the physics aspect string theory and Quantum mechanics and Quantum physics.
12:53.95
Craig
Um.
13:11.50
Ron
Which illustrates that even at the finest levels. The universe is not matter. It is energy. It is wave function not particle and that as sir Arthur Eddington said the the british physicist. The stuff of the world is mind stuff and these most advanced thinkers in the world of physics have all said the same thing that in fact, the world the universe as we know it is much closer to being a thought or a dream. Than it is to being a physical substantive reality and so this podcast is one for those who sense that or seek that or have had experiences of higher states of creativity higher states of consciousness for those who are on a path. Whatever that path may be of higher knowledge.
14:15.90
Craig
So there’s a problem in conversation which is if somebody says something profound. There’s no response to profundity. Um I I love trotting that word out sorry I’m a total nerd.
14:30.76
Ron
Ah, and know it’s it’s it’s it’s kind of you. It’s very kind I should I was just sorry. It’s just going to add that I should probably define.
14:32.19
Craig
I I have like 3 god god.
14:43.00
Ron
Explain why it’s called Simplest State Simplest State Refers to simplest state of the mind simplest state of Awareness if we think of the mind as being very very active engaged in thoughts engaged in experience engaged in perception.
15:01.44
Craig
Really.
15:02.53
Ron
But the simplest state of that mind is not engaged in thoughts in experience and perception. But it is Consciousness. It is pure awareness much like when the ocean rises up in a wave. It has a distinct height a width. Ah, specific direction. It can be Defined. It can be Isolated. It can be localized but when that wave settles down to its simplest State. It’s indistinguishable from the unboundedness of the ocean Consciousness. What? what. What physics has shown us is that consciousness behaves as a field So when it’s active. Yes, it’s Isolated. It’s Defined. It’s distinct when it is silent. It is a wave. It becomes one with the rest of that. So-called Ocean that unbounded awareness that underlies everything as we know from the world of physics.
16:08.19
Craig
I always have too many things I want to ask and they don’t all fit. Ah, 1 thing that I want to ask is if somebody just went. That’s interesting. They can listen to your podcast because that’s what you would have liked to have found in the back of the comic book would be your audio files somehow. Um. So that’s out there now so people could start there. But also we mentioned a lot of books I once read I am that by nissarragata um, I’m wondering and that is not like don’t start there folks like don’t try and read I am that first. I’m wondering. Where’s a good I have some guesses but where’s a good on ramp if people are looking for something to read in between listening to your podcast episodes come out. It’s not an easy question like I could take a step at it. Your bedroom.
16:48.99
Ron
First of all I have to say um I’ve read I am that by spamin niser gadada a raj many times. It’s ah, an extraordinary book and a wonderful account of exactly what I’m speaking about. But I would say a very good place to start is take a classic of eastern literature. The bhagavad gita which is the whole story of the evolution of consciousness. Ah, and it’s it’s.
17:26.49
Ron
There’s many translation and commentaries the one I would recommend is the translation and commentary by Maharishi mahash yogi who founded the transcendental meditation tm program and his translation and commentary is very incisive. It just cuts to the quick of that entire discourse between Krishna and Arjuna that takes place on the battlefield in the bhagavadketa.
17:54.79
Craig
Terrific I Knew you’d have a great answer for that. The other thing that I wanted to ask about is um I’m going to back up like back out conceptually a little bit more meta about Podcasting. You also suffer annoing lot Why I asked that question you also. Have a really good handle on how to talk about your show and I think I’m just going to project my insecurities onto the listeners I think that a lot of people are nervous when they talk about their own show because it’s tough to like I made this thing and I I. Kind of don’t want to share it because if you tell me it sucks it reflects on me and I’m just wondering how long it took you if at all to go from making the thing and envisioning the podcast to actually being able to like do the it’s more than an elevator pitch but to actually say and be comfortable. This is what I made.
18:31.10
Ron
And.
18:48.51
Craig
It It may or may not be for you. The potential listener.
18:54.25
Ron
Well, that’s I’m very happy to hear that and very grateful to you because I do not think I have arrived there yet. Um, because I rarely do speak about the show. No one ever asked me to explain what the content is and I’ve never done so. I’ve written a brief description. Sorry we can. We can edit out the coughs at least how are not are not down with editing I say um, but.
19:19.30
Craig
Um, or not we could just human painting.
19:31.29
Ron
Yeah I don’t think I’m there yet I’m far from it I’m not really like you said I’m also not comfortable speaking about the content of it Eric Newsum’s 10 words I’ve never done that exercise. But I think about doing it I know it this.
19:45.47
Craig
Oh that’s brilliant. Well you um so don’t ask me to do that. Don’t ask me to do the 10 words for this show because I would be something like I talk with podcast creators and I would just stop there but what I found worked for me. Um.
19:50.54
Ron
And the.
20:00.79
Craig
When I did it for another show was I started with an unlimited number of words and I just said you know I need 27 words here are my 27 words and then they went can I make it 26 and I just kept chopping down and what happened to me was it’s pretty easy. You know all right? I’ll start cutting adjectives. It’s not the greatest show over made. It’s just a show you know. Like I chopped it down and I got to like 20 or something and then I went ooh I have to find a different way to say this idea or in my case I had 23 ideas in there and I had to like get rid of which which are the 3 so I actually think ah people. Who are listening probably have heard of and have probably read Eric Newsum in news z u m wrote a book called make noise and inside there is. It’s a great book for many things but it mentions this exercise so I would recommend if people if if someone has trouble talking about their show.
20:47.32
Ron
That’s correct.
20:55.50
Craig
Start with you know freebie have all the words you want and then just start chopping and you get to a point where I’m stuck I can’t get below 23 words and then that’ll force you to find another way to say it. The other thing to do is to just say it to people and watch their reaction.
21:00.62
Ron
A.
21:08.50
Craig
So I start saying oh it’s podcast where I talk about they’re going to be it. Just wait for their eyes to glass over and then that’s the part where you got That’s where you’re cutting so but I practice practice practice part. Yeah.
21:21.38
Ron
Um, I Ah ah a good point. Yeah I think it’s probably. Ah, really the essence of that book make noise is that exercise it. It.
21:29.88
Craig
Um I can. It’s been a while since and I’m looking because that if for a while it was it a table over here for a while it used to be really ready at handed I seem to recall it being kind of like a throwaway thing and I think he was talking about. You know what? actually I do remember. It’s not a throwaway thing. But. He brings it up in a completely different context than the way I use it and we all use it. He brought it up like he was working with and I’m not going to name names because I cannot sure I’m right he was working with a large entity that was producing a show and they were having trouble like they they couldn’t work together as a big team in production meetings and he said. Everybody described the show in 12 words and made them all. Do it and they had no agreement. He’s like well there’s your problem. So we all use it as a way for us to describe our own show but he was using it as a way to like here’s why you all aren’t on the same page. You don’t even have the same visions for the show. Um.
22:10.36
Ron
Right? right.
22:21.38
Craig
Which always struck me as interesting.
22:21.81
Ron
That’s right, That’s right and and and even for ourselves to do the exercise ourselves the purpose I presume is so that we have a very clear idea of what our show because otherwise it can be a random.
22:30.32
Craig
Yeah, collarity baby.
22:37.48
Craig
Yeah, yes.
22:38.68
Ron
Hamble through here and there and this and that so I think that’s his point know what your show really is about so.
22:47.20
Craig
Yeah, ah and you know what that brings us back to um the 12 words or the 10 words would be the simplest state for describing your show.
23:00.52
Ron
Um, and it’s as I mentioned it’s an exercise I have not ah but it’s it’s on my To- do list make the tent work.
23:06.94
Craig
Um, okay so let’s okay so it’s aspirational. It’s fine. It’s fine. Ah oh don’t I’ve started keeping a to don’t list things I shouldn’t be doing. Um.
23:17.96
Ron
I Think do you do this.
23:23.30
Craig
Oh.
23:24.27
Ron
And something I do and I wonder if you do it if everyone does it if it’s just me where I sometimes procrastinate over things like that especially because there’s a feeling of. I Don’t really need that or I really know what it is or that won’t help me in any way. Although even though I know that you know so many people have said how useful it is and what a great exercise. But do you do you look at? Do you look at something like that and say.
23:45.84
Craig
Oh yeah I I procrastinate like that.
23:55.99
Ron
Well I already know I don’t have to take time doing that I know what the show is about whether or not I can put it in 10 words doesn’t matter. Do you know what? I mean.
23:57.67
Craig
I I totally do that I totally understand you I totally do that I don’t have the 10 words for this very show that we are recording I probably could fake it because I have an intro that I use every time I do know the 10 words for the show.
24:11.89
Ron
I.
24:17.53
Craig
Um, my um, you know Ockham’s razor kind of way to cut that that’s a horrible mixed metaphor Greg is if I can’t stop thinking about it I need to stop and do it so that could be like if I can’t stop thinking about mowing the lawn I need to mow the lawn because. If I write down the 10 words you know do 10 words for pod talk this show if I write down. Do 10 words for pod talk and I don’t do it I want to keep thinking about it so eventually I’m just like do just take the trash out. You know, like just do the thing so I do that all the time I procrastinate that way all the time. Um I think. It’s you know it’s a way of hiding is is me hiding from you know realizing I don’t actually know what the 10 words are so I just want to talk to people. Um.
25:01.79
Ron
That’s it exactly I do I do the exact same thing about major purchases I think well I don’t really need it I can’t really afford it I did but that if I keep thinking about it and keep thinking about it eventually I’m going to end up buying it.
25:09.80
Craig
Um, yeah, yeah.
25:19.33
Ron
Because I think well there’s there’s a reason obviously I keep thinking about it I need it. But.
25:28.61
Craig
Um, yeah, cool all right Ron as much as I hate to say it every time I have to say it I think that’s probably a good place for us to stop watching the time. Um, thanks so much for popping up randomly in my calendar.
25:38.99
Ron
Um, sure.
25:42.80
Craig
Please do that at any point in time that you want to record anything I else have 1 for random chats just for fun. So thank you so much for taking the time it was a real pleasure.
25:49.72
Ron
What a pleasure it was thank you so much Craig I appreciate the invitation I’m so glad that we finally got together and did this it. It just talking like this clarifies so many things in my own mind that I’d love to do it again sometime even random.
(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)
