Creatives - with Tricia Rose Burt

Creatives, storytelling and enabling others

creatives

Transcript

00:00.62
Craig
Um, hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome this is the podcaster community show short conversations that are not just about podcasting because I like to take the scenic rout my guest today is Tricia Rose Burt welcome Tricia thank you for joining me. How are you.

00:17.86
Tricia
I’m great Craig how are you.

00:20.38
Craig
I’m good. Super busy. We were talking beforehand about you know people telling one. You need a lot of activity or you need to do something creative or be and I’m like that’s me I’m always if I don’t feel like I’m under an Avalanche I’m not doing it right.

00:35.65
Tricia
Ah, something is wrong.

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00:37.34
Craig
Yeah, or I feel like something’s wrong. Although it’s probably would be better for me if I didn’t do that to myself. Um, So yeah, there are so many things we could talk about right? Um, let’s talk about I like to ask people So your podcast is called no time to be timid and. Question I have and I also want to talk a little bit about like how you make the show because not getting sucked into the making of the show is a really interesting thing to talk about but my my thought is your show is about I’m going to say empowering creative people.

00:59.90
Tricia
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10.12
Craig
Feel like they can take the leap that they can like you know move into their creative endeavors and that’s kind of that. Well not kind of that’s meta so you that your story involves a leap to change to being a creative person and I’m just wondering when did you first imagine that you should step forward and make.

01:13.45
Tricia
Me.

01:29.93
Craig
The thing to help other people or like how did your journey go from I’m a creative to being I want to enable other creatives. How long has that been going on.

01:40.72
Tricia
Um, you know that’s a really good question. It’s been going on for a while and at first I mean it was. It was such an an amazing thing to me to to discover in my mid 30 s oh I’m an artist who knew. I mean I just you know I was raised that I was supposed to be in business. That’s what my family did you know or if we were frisky. We were a lawyer but mostly you know it was. It was very you know, logical reasonable things to do um and so when I I sort of accidentally ended up in art school.

01:55.42
Craig
Um.

02:07.51
Craig
Mm.

02:14.96
Tricia
Um, and really again, realize that’s what I was and it it just it just blew my world wide open to go wait. There’s like I’ve missed out on this for this whole like this is amazing. This is that this is amazing. The ability to be able to.

02:28.76
Craig
Um.

02:33.40
Tricia
Express myself and to be with a lot of other like I never felt like I fit in and then going to art school was like well nobody fits in this is the best like you know you know this is the these are this is where I’m supposed to be not with you know I’d spent so much my life trying to fit in with everybody else. They just never worked.

02:47.63
Craig
Um.

02:52.41
Tricia
And because I was you know I’m ah you know I could act like I fit in but you like and the inside I’m going I have this you know this I’m I’m you know this is not it. Yeah yeah I mean it just like everything you know, just everything and so you know I just kind of felt called.

03:00.26
Craig
This meeting better ah ends soon right.

03:11.91
Tricia
You know and I’m using that word. Um, intentionally you know sort of spread this creative Gospel you know and but it took a long time. So I mean I was.

03:21.52
Craig
Um.

03:24.00
Tricia
Telling a little bit before the show started that I mean I made a very drasttic leap I mean I was you know I had created a life for myself in Boston that created that that required a a very high paying job I know no longer wanted anymore and um I just knew it was the wrong thing for me to do I’d been going to art school at the same time. And so I just ah and really in one week I quit my job sold my car divorced my husband again which was not on a whim that had been in the works for 2 years and moved over to Ireland because I thought I needed to completely remove myself from where I was to start over as this artist that I wanted to be. And um, you know I don’t recommend everyone do that drastic of ah of a movie but but in my life at that time it made perfect sense I you know I was no longer married I didn’t have children you know, no one was relying on me to do anything. Um and I was unencumbered I could I could start over and. Um, but I had so many people come up to me and say oh my god I would love to do what you did? Oh my god I was you know all these people I’m it was so curious to me the number of people in more conventional positions who were wishing they could have a more creative life. So I I I developed this one woman show.

04:36.34
Craig
Um, they too could switch.

04:40.25
Tricia
It had been in my head for like 13 years and I finally did it I I would I would do it in my car for like 5 years I did it to the dashboard. Um, and then um I finally did it in 2007 I think 2008 been a visual artist for years and then when the market crashed or did whatever it did back in 2007 I thought oh I know I’ll go into performance because wow lot of money there and um and yeah money i.

05:11.70
Craig
Um, there’s no money where I’m standing moving to find another place where there’s no money isn’t a problem right.

05:17.17
Tricia
And so that when I did that show which was all about my journey going from a conventional life with conventional expectations and becoming an artist and saw the effect that show was having I told a smaller version of that. Ah, for them off. Many years ago in 2011 I told it on the offs stage it was called how to draw naked man and people still email me about that story about saying I what you know I was in this horrible job and I heard your show and now I’m going to art school all right? So yeah I mean so which is we.

05:51.45
Craig
Um, for people rushing to Youtube to look that up. It’s how how to draw a naked n e k k I d not naked how to draw a naked man.

05:52.80
Tricia
Thrilling I mean it’s totally thrilling um and it yes.

06:04.64
Tricia
I I applaud your I applaud your inner 7 or Craig you got that just right? It’s naked.

06:06.15
Craig
Definitely worth a watch. Well I looked it up and I’m like oh we’re gonna that’s going to be a homonimmical house of horrors if I don’t point out. It’s any kk id people might be able to find it but otherwise Nsf W I don’t know where you’re going to end up I love that you um. Point out that I’m I’m going to say the specialness of being called to do work and I was just reading something a quote by Hugh Mcleod which I won’t try and slaughter where he’s talking about if you um.

06:33.83
Tricia
Um.

06:41.85
Craig
That that everyone has a personal Mount Everest and it doesn’t have to be a physical mountain but everybody’s got something. There’s this thing and if if you don’t make using the mountain climbing metaphor if you don’t make at least 1 serious attempt to get above the snow line which is like a mountain climbing thing for like you actually really tried.

06:44.57
Tricia
Yeah.

06:56.85
Tricia
M.

06:59.98
Craig
If you don’t make at least 1 serious attempt at your personal Mount Everest you’re going to regret that and I think it’s maybe lucky of people who find themselves struggling because they’re torn between a more plotted out course and a creative course.

07:04.98
Tricia
Um, oh yeah.

07:18.54
Craig
Maybe they’re the lucky people because they find that ache early enough that you can still jump ship or you can still make a big change. Um, so I don’t know that I’ve ever jumped ship or that I’d even be able to do it now or might um, like um I’m so meta even this acronym. But I think that’s. Pretty astute of you to have noticed that you were called to then make a significant important change and then to still realize that you’re still called to do more to like a air quote and come back and share it as a podcast. So now the next thing ah is this is nominally about podcasting. Um.

07:49.55
Tricia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

07:56.58
Craig
So You strike me as somebody who’s slightly detail oriented slightly like organized and present I’m I’m being sarcastic. Um, how do you? avoid? So you you you realize that maybe you should be making a podcast. You. Pretty quickly I’m going to assume realize that this is a gaping Maw you know of like oh you could just dump your entire I make the joke podcasting is like the face hugger from the movie Alien you know we’re like you’re like oh what’s in here you know and then it’s like on your face right? Yeah yeah, That’s that’s podcasting.

08:17.50
Tricia
A k.

08:25.91
Tricia
Ah, ah gee Now you put that visual in my head.

08:31.29
Craig
So how do you? Um I’m assuming that you agree with me because you’re laughing along. How do you keep that beast. Um at arm’s length like how do you keep that under control like how do you push forward the creative vision that you have for your project and fight off the.

08:34.40
Tricia
Yes, yes.

08:47.52
Craig
Fear of like I’m not doing everything I should be doing.

08:50.85
Tricia
You know it’s interesting. You know I’m a storyteller by trade if that’s a thing and so there’s like 3 Um, there’s 3 key parts to a story one is theme one is narrative arc and 1 is what’s at stake.

08:54.14
Craig
Um, it’s a thing.

09:07.68
Tricia
And the theme of a story is not necessarily the plot like what happens in this story. It’s what it’s about. So you know if we look at how to draw naked a man you know the and I’m I’m this is a way to answer your question.

09:11.10
Craig
Has.

09:22.68
Tricia
Um, you know had under Johoneca Bay is burnout corporate executive goes to art school realizes. She’s an artist changes her life there. You go. The theme is really about oh sorry spoiler alert sorry guys. Um, yeah, um.

09:29.85
Craig
Just spoiled it right? Can we keep going? Yeah yeah I want people to watch it not like but keep going.

09:41.75
Tricia
Yeah, it’s still good goes see it. Um, but the theme was breaking unconventional the breaking conventional expectations and so one of the ways that I sort of push back at what this podcast could turn into is what’s. The theme of this thing and the theme is helping people find the courage to choose the creative path. So Everything I do is through that lens at least content wise you know who’s my guest. So the guests who are on the show are not people who came out of the womb as artist.

10:08.27
Craig
Brilliant.

10:18.87
Tricia
You know the first guest I had was my friend Tim Donovan who went to art school in his early 40 s it took him 10 years to get through art school then he became a I mean literally 10 years to get through art school while he was running another business and now he’s co-director of an art gallery down in New York you know that’s a guy who I mean it his mid 40 s you know.

10:30.33
Craig
Um.

10:37.66
Tricia
And he was very open about this in the interview got sober realized he was an artist. Okay, let me go do this now you know the second guest were people who were ordained ministers and now they’re you know? Emmy award-winning um filmmakers. So I’m looking for people who didn’t necessarily start out.

10:42.30
Craig
Um.

10:56.62
Tricia
As you know came out of the womb knowing they were going to be an artist that so that so it’s it with that theme. It helps me pick my guest. It helps me pick what resources I’m going to offer people and it helps the it just it just makes content selection. Really easy.

11:14.47
Craig
Um, what’s the crypt night for you? Oh sorry if you finish the second part I was gonna say what’s the kryptonite but you had a second part to your answer I didn’t want to cut that off.

11:14.57
Tricia
Because that’s the theme I’m using um the other you know my kryptonite. Well no I Guess the other thing I mean what’s been overwhelming for me has been um. You know I’m not great at technology. Um, and so and also um, just you know I’m a storyteller I’m used to being on a big stage where I have to product and do all these things and you’re the microphone I can just visit the microphone you know like I you know it’s a whole.

11:47.10
Craig
Right.

11:50.38
Tricia
It’s such an intimate medium podcasting and that’s even though storytelling is incredibly intimate I’m usually doing it in front of a live audience you know and it’s a very different way. So I mean I’ve learned so much so much. Um.

11:54.19
Craig
Um.

12:08.58
Tricia
And I think the gaping mall part is like the fear that can come from I am 1 of 2000000 podcast am I making any difference you know and I just can’t think about that I can think you know i. Put in my head who’s my avatar who am I making this for who’s the 1 person I Want to make sure is listening to this I’m doing what I can to build my audience and getting smarter about that. But you know I’m just trying to put out the best episode I can.

12:42.44
Craig
Um.

12:42.60
Tricia
And yeah am I answering your question Well okay, jumping off points.

12:46.65
Craig
Yeah I mean the questions are just um, the questions are yeah no, the questions are just like you know the you know the flag for the bull. The red thing It’s like it just a question I Just Thinkt you’re moving. Um, so I was going to ask you what the kryptonite was but now I got a better question. Um I think it’s a better question so you have extensive experience.

12:53.34
Tricia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:04.40
Craig
Doing storytelling when you have audience feedback like the people I’m talking to are standing in front of me. So if the guy in the back leaves I can see that at this person like you know blows their milk out their nose I can see that do you do you find that one of these endeavors like storytelling with an audience versus storytelling.

13:09.58
Tricia
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:23.53
Craig
Or helping someone else tell their story in a podcast so these 2 different ways of doing it 2 different mediums which of them. Do you think takes more courage which one do you have to be more brave to try and do way better than the cryptonite thing I think.

13:34.51
Tricia
Um, it’s really Interesting. You know, well because for me I mean for me there is nothing better than a live audience like… There’s just and and then there’s a difference I don’t get in front of a live audience because oh good I’m just in front of a live audience and I get a rush out of being in front of people I get a rush out of being in front of people when I have something to say when I think what I can share with them may affect some change in their lives even perception or whatever it might be.

13:55.16
Craig
So.

14:05.66
Tricia
And so I’m not like looking for audiences just for the sake of having an audience. Um, but there you know that being in front of an audience totally fills me. It’s just a fantastic experience. It terrifies other people I have the exact opposite experience podcasting has been taken more courage for me because it’s new.

14:25.66
Tricia
Because um because I’m not getting that immediate feedback. So I can’t adjust like I can read an audience and start you know it’s a conversation. It’s a conversation with an audience. You know when I’m just doing the first part of my show which is host on Mike and it’s just me which is just like 3 minutes of me telling a story.

14:30.60
Craig
Right? right.

14:45.31
Tricia
It’s the most uncomfortable part because I don’t have that feedback I don’t know how houses what you know it’s like it’s really hard really hard and I didn’t realize how much of.

14:52.87
Craig
Um, yeah I think host on Mike is really hard.

14:58.59
Craig
Um, fear.

15:03.12
Tricia
What I do is shake this this collaboration with the audience. Um now the interview part. It’s interesting I was afraid I wasn’t going to be good at at interviewing because I’m used to being the one on stage like am I going to be good at sort of not of being sort of.

15:07.30
Craig
Um.

15:20.82
Craig
Yeah I’m I’m supposed to be the sidekick right? which is literally what I’m doing now like how much color do we need how much. Yeah.

15:21.37
Tricia
Not to star. Whatever yeah we yeah how? But how do where do I put myself in here and then I realized I’ve been teaching storytelling for so long. And all I do is actively listen and ask people questions so it was the exact same skill set I’m like wait I’ve been doing this for years. You know? So So the part I was the most scared of was the interviewing and it’s the easiest and the part that I wasn’t scared of at all was the storytelling part.

15:41.47
Craig
Ah, mm.

15:49.00
Craig
Are.

15:53.51
Tricia
At front and that’s the hardest because I don’t I’m doing it just by myself going I hope hope this is ok I Well I mean it’s just like is this landing one of its landing. You know I don’t know and with an interview then I still have.

16:02.99
Craig
Um, somebody loves me. Yeah, um.

16:12.91
Tricia
Control because a lot of this is about control because I can shape the interview like if the interview’s an hour long and I want the show to be about 30 minutes I can take the best parts of this the interview out and also if I’ve come in too much in that interview just take me out of it so you know I just I can take the the.

16:21.91
Craig
Now.

16:28.68
Craig
Um.

16:30.79
Tricia
I find that the color works in the interview to get the interviewer going but I can go back and cut me out. You know what? I’m saying where I just have yeah and then we don’t have to have you know too much Tricia has 2 or 3

16:35.49
Craig
Yeah, and it’s still carry though they still carry. Yeah.

16:45.20
Tricia
You know minutes at the top of the show. She’s got some stuff at the end but in the middle is all the wisdom. Whatever my guest is going to bring to the table.

16:51.37
Craig
Yeah, that’s my plan how how little of Craig can we put in the thing to make the thing work.

16:56.65
Tricia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then also to know just I mean you have a very you know you have a great personality and a great presence there needs to be Craig in there somewhere you know I’m I’m really good at what I do I need to have triition there. But what’s the balance. You know what is that balance of.

17:09.94
Craig
Right.

17:15.20
Tricia
And of course I was raised never to draw attention to myself so looks like that didn’t work it. It worked for a lot of years and then I was like somebody needs to draw attention in the self. It might as well be me and so again that call going back to yeah, it is the intention.

17:18.99
Craig
Um, let’s got go say that didn’t work out right? Ah news me yeah and but it’s the intention right? like the intention for calling.

17:34.33
Tricia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

17:34.73
Craig
Ah, the intention for calling a attention to 1 self if that’s in service of others like I want to make these people laugh or I want to share this. You can you two? can you know, follow your creative urge then then I think you’re in the right one is in the right space if your intention is in the correct. Ah, vein or one has the right intention.

17:52.24
Tricia
I think I think you just said that the really a really important thing which is is it in service to others you know and I think that you know there’s a certain level of humility that comes in. Hopefully if you’re trying to be in service to others.

18:00.42
Craig
Oh.

18:09.93
Tricia
So and I also learned there’s a wonderful woman named Marion Roach Smith who has a great book called the memoir project and I worked with her a lot as a writing um instructor and you know I would get really nervous about you know. Drawing attention to myself. I mean I would you know there were times when I did my woman woman show in the beginning I’d be in the green room going I’m a bad bad person for drawing attention to myself like I’m bad I’m just bad you know and then I got over that for took a long time and I finally can stand on stage and accept applause I mean I used to just run off the stage like love.

18:30.79
Craig
Oh.

18:42.31
Tricia
People noticed yikes. But um, but you know she was really important in saying you know your book or your podcast or your blog or whatever it is is about is about something like breaking conventional expectations or something breaking convention.

18:43.84
Craig
Um.

19:00.20
Tricia
And you’re just the illustration. It’s not about you. It’s about this theme. You’re just the illustration and so it’s sort of as she says nudges you offstage. So it’s not like it’s all about Tricia. It’s not all about Tricia. It’s about my experience and breaking convention. Hopefully. It will give you some courage to do the same thing. It’s very it comes from a very different place than let me tell you all about me so that that that is a that is a real. Um, it’s just a great reminder with with fear something like me who. Lives in the world of first person narrative most of the time to to be reminded. Yeah.

19:40.10
Craig
Yeah, that’s tough right? I mean I think most people live in. But I mean I don’t think there’s anybody who doesn’t have a first person narrative because you’re all, we’re all sitting behind the glass the windscreen of our little self car and like the world’s out there and I’m in here and that’s everything happens from there but it is really nice when you when you realize that.

19:50.31
Tricia
Yeah.

19:58.31
Craig
That perspective is still useful to share. So.

19:59.67
Tricia
Yeah, is useful I mean you know we don’t have the time for me to get in about how important storytelling is so yeah, so but but you know our voice. Everybody’s voice needs to be heard. It really does and podcasting is a great is a great medium to do that.

20:09.28
Craig
Um, yeah, that’s that’s exactly what I was going to say that the the scalability of podcasting is a great opportunity for people to try putting their voice out there. Um.

20:19.80
Tricia
Yeah, yes.

20:26.39
Craig
Ah, want to make sure that we also say if you want to find more about Tricia you can go to Tricia’s t r I c I a rose burt r o s e b u r t dot com and you can find her blog. You can find links to all the Youtube videos we’re talking about that’s easiest way to find how to draw a naked man. Um.

20:45.38
Tricia
Spell it again. Craig let’s see if you remember how to spell it. Ah.

20:45.39
Craig
Anything else. Well I’m trying not to show off. It’s NEKK id I have notes over here on the side of the screen. So I have these written down I’m cheating um, but then again I guess that’s what I’m supposed to do like my job is to remember to cross t’s and dot i’s.

20:58.21
Tricia
Yes.

21:00.16
Craig
Um, hey Tricia it was ah there’s a lot of backstory to how many times we tried to do this. We won’t go into that. But thank you so much for sixth sixth time appears to be the charm. Um I hope I didn’t just jinx it.

21:03.13
Tricia
Oh my word. Oh.

21:10.29
Tricia
I think I think no oh that? Yeah no I’m not going to do anything I won’t shut anything down until you tell me I’m supposed to lord knows. Thank you, thank you Craig I appreciate it.

21:20.55
Craig
Um, thanks so much for taking the time.

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