Summary
Through this conversation, it is clear that Dr. Howard Gluss is passionate about the power of sound and the importance of balance between both his work as a psychologist and his podcasting. He believes that sound can be an effective tool to create an intimate experience for listeners. He also encourages those struggling with addiction to focus on creating a life they actually enjoy, rather than obsessing over perfection.
Episode Audio
Exploring Connections Between Psychology and Podcasting
Today I’m joined by Dr. Howard Gluss, a clinical psychologist and podcaster, to talk about the balance between those two pursuits. As a psychologist, he specializes in helping those struggling with addiction. He believes that the balance between his two worlds is interconnected and cannot be completely separated from one another. When working with patients, he believes it is important to be present for them and to be of service, rather than make it about himself.
However, podcasting provides him with an opportunity to express himself and make it about Howard. This balance helps him to be more present in his sessions with patients and enjoy the creative process of podcasting. He believes that success for those struggling with addiction is their normalizing their life. He encourages those with addiction to create a life that they actually like, which can help distance themselves from their addiction. This requires a support system of therapists, friends, and groups to help them stay on the right path.
Howard also suggests that one should stay away from obsessing over perfection. He recommends getting rid of too many notes and scripts, and just relaxing into the process. This allows podcasters to gain confidence and enjoy the creative process without getting too focused on perfection.
Howard reveals how he uses sound to create an intimate experience for his listeners, sharing that sound is a powerful tool that helps him to access deep emotions and spiritual connections. He explains that sound is deeply embedded in many contexts (for example, Eastern religions) and is a powerful tool for meditation. He has practiced meditation for 25 years and believes that it helps to keep him grounded before a client session.
Howard shares his thoughts on the power of audio and how it can transport listeners to a different world. He believes that the lack of visual stimulation can allow the listener to fill in the gaps and create a more personal experience. Lastly, he wonders if research could compare the reactions of listeners to the same material presented in both visual and auditory forms. This could provide interesting insights into how sound affects our brains and how it can be used to create a more intimate experience.
Craig highlighted the importance of music, noting that he’s heard the same spoken-voice track laid onto drastically different music beds to create a completely different overall experience. He argues that sometimes we don’t need anything more than audio to convey a message. Howard agrees, and notes there’s a difference between speaking with a patient in-person versus virtually. While there are pros and cons to both, he noted that in-person communication allows therapists to observe body language and make better interpretations about their patients.
Howard also mentions how podcasting can trigger emotions in listeners, even if the host is not doing anything to intentionally do so. He points out that we don’t always know what can trigger an emotional response, and suggested that podcast hosts should be mindful of this. Craig draws the conclusion that it is important to remain conscious of the power of audio-only communication, and to be aware that listeners can be triggered.
After an interesting conversation covering food, addiction treatment, and audio dramas they wrap up mentioning Dr. Gluss’s own in-home rehab company and psychology practice, Dara Knot Health: https://www.daraknothealth.com/ and his podcast, “Dr. G: Engaging Minds”.
Transcript
00:00.10
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome to Podtalk, short conversations with indie podcasters that are not just about podcasting because I like to take the scenic route. My guest today is Dr. Howard Gluss. Welcome, Howard. How are you this afternoon?
00:16.37
Howard
I’m doing great Craig thanks for having me on I appreciate it.
00:18.18
Craig
Oh I appreciate it myself. This is like off the charts the part before we press record was really good I think the place that we should start as we said is to talk about the balance. So I’m going to call you an actual. Practitioner so you directly see patients and work with them right? And you’re also a podcaster so I’m Chuck link is like so yeah, yeah, so your podcast. Um.
00:36.31
Howard
Right? I’m a clinical psychologist. Yes, exactly I have 2 lines going on entertainment and and psychology.
Show more…
00:53.60
Craig
Talks to experts on on various topics and and you know I’ll let you dive in there about what your show’s about but the question that came to mind was how do you I’m going to say how do you rationalize? you have to balance your time between these 2 things you can either directly see people and directly help them. You know one on 1 basically. Um, or you can work on the podcast which probably has a bigger ripple effect but you’re not trying to directly help a person some just what are your thoughts on how you balance your time between those 2 lives.
01:19.87
Howard
Well I don’t think of them as mutually exclusive I think of them as interconnected. So for instance when when I’m seeing patients my focus a lot of term when I Okay when I see patients sorry it.
01:29.22
Craig
And and you don’t have to lean into that so close you can just relax because now you’re yeah yeah.
01:39.90
Howard
Um, when I see patients you know a lot of times my senses I’m there to really be present for them and it’s not about me and it’s not about my self-expression. It’s about being of service to the patient and trying to help them as much as possible when I’m on podcast I feel. Oh.
01:45.92
Craig
Um.
01:57.94
Howard
Here’s my opportunity to actually express myself and make it about me make it about Howard. So I try to balance two and we know it’s impossible to ever have a perfect balance but it seems like 1 feeds the other. So if I’m happy podcasting and it gives me a sense of. Creativity and self expression I’m going to feel more present in my sessions with clients or patients. So that’s how I I try to balance the two. The focus is different.
02:20.18
Craig
Um.
02:30.17
Craig
That’s brilliant. Um, do you ever find yourself I Really hate to interject and be like back up but you were great and then you’re like you got excited, you’re blowing my doors off. Um I’m wondering. Um.
02:33.15
Howard
Um, and I didn’t say it too close to the mic. Yeah, you know. What? what? it reminded me very quickly is so for a few years I did a show on Kbc radio and on the radio I have to keep my you have to be like right on top of the mic. Yeah, exactly So you have that voice. So.
02:50.78
Craig
Oh yeah, an sm 7 b gets me again right? up against the grill you get to consent condenser might fortunately listeners are podcasters. They love that stuff too. We should. We could talk about that for 20 minutes um Um, so we didn’t mention that in your.
03:00.32
Howard
Right.
03:06.57
Craig
Clinical practice that you work with people or Grammar Craig you you work with addiction. That’s your specialization your specialty helping people with addiction. So tell me a little bit about maybe the kinds of like well I’m going to say maybe the sorts of breakthroughs that you see people making so like your definition of success is when somebody is able to. And overcome an addiction or understand their addiction I’m um, throwing questions in your mouth.
03:32.27
Howard
Um, yeah I think that you know it’s well first of all being sober is usually the success of overcoming an addiction. So that’s very important to be able to do because you can’t be in 2 worlds at the same time.
03:37.99
Craig
Frame.
03:45.61
Howard
Can’t be actively in an addiction whether it’s a behavioral addiction like gambling or sex and um, not be an addiction if that makes sense or if it’s drugs or alcohol. So on some level you have to decide what world you want to be in because you can’t do both. And I always say to clients or patients you don’t see a lot of people when they win these big awards saying I Want to thank my drug dealer for getting me into this place. Um, and if you get to live long enough. You can’t just keep abusing yourself that much so to me.
04:16.84
Craig
Um.
04:20.17
Craig
Right.
04:24.27
Howard
Success you know addiction is very compulsive and that’s why it’s called an addiction and if you’re out of addiction if you’re out of disease when I try to treat people I like to look at 2 aspects of them I like to look at them as a person. And then I like to look at their addiction. The addiction to me is the disease part and the person is the person I’m trying to get a handle on because that person gets lost in the Addiction. So Once you can normalize someone in other words, if they’ve had a detox or they’ve been sober for a while. If you can get that same person to start just working on their stuff start discovering aspects of themselves that are separate from the addiction things they feel passionate about in their life chances are that eventually this is the hope I’m crossing my fingers. This is the hope. Eventually, they’re going to create a life that they actually like doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy, but they’re going to like it and they may not want to destroy it with Addiction. So as a Cliche I would say if you’re living a life that you really like and you feel passionate about it and you can handle all the stresses of it.
05:20.40
Craig
Um.
05:36.16
Howard
And have the support system around you that you need to keep it going whether it’s a good therapist friends. Whatever it is a a group I think then you’ve created a lot of distance from your addiction and that’s always going to be part of who you are that addictive personality. But you can. Like turning the powers of evil to good. You can use that obsession and channel it in something very positive for yourself.
05:55.30
Craig
M.
06:01.38
Craig
When we were talking before I started recording I asked you just because I like the sometimes I just grabbbed 2 random things and smash them together and I grabbed podcasting like as as a as a creator of podcasts um podcasting I don’t I didn’t think that it felt.
06:08.75
Howard
Um, sure.
06:20.16
Craig
Like it was particularly hazardous like my understanding of certain hard drugs is like you. You don’t want to mess around with that because that’s pretty physically addicting, pretty darn quick so podcasting to me doesn’t feel like it’s dangerous in that sense of addiction. But then when I started to think more about.
06:25.19
Howard
Right.
06:35.25
Craig
Some of my behaviors around obsessing over perfection about how every episode has to have a really great summary and a really great. Um, like all these ah I would say deck chairs that I can rearrange while the Titanic is sinking or all these railings I can polish and then I begin to think of maybe podcasting really can be addictive and um. I’m just wondering if you point your um, your inquisitiveness about addiction and look at your own the way that you podcast are there things about it that you’ve chosen. Okay I’m going to stay away from that because I feel like that could be a road to obsessing.
07:11.27
Howard
Well I think you just gave it the answer if I stay away from the road of having it perfect or you even for. But for a few years I did a radio show here in Los Angeles on Kc and I remember.
07:11.87
Craig
Um, and possibly becoming addicted or other things.
07:17.49
Craig
Ah.
07:29.24
Howard
And I’ve done radio on and off for about 7 years as a psychologist and I remember you know every time and I do this every time when I start getting back into radio I’ll plan out the whole you know I’ll take notes and plan it all out you all that stuff like that and then it goes to notes.
07:40.00
Craig
Um, the whole segment right.
07:49.22
Howard
That are almost scripted to talking points to hey what’s your name. Let’s just riff on the subject because I’ll gain the confidence but I think the more you can stay away from that obsession and get some free will and just relax.
07:56.10
Craig
Um, yeah.
08:07.29
Howard
Into the process. Not worry about being perfect. Um I think the better off you’re going to be.
08:14.33
Craig
Um I would agree but I’m not nearly like I’m not credentialed but I would agree. That’s what works for me, stay away from the parts. That’s.
08:15.89
Howard
Well yeah, but it’s a car you know like you That’s a great point like you said it’s an ideal doesn’t mean we’re not constantly working at it.
08:26.99
Craig
yeah yeah I looked at your um when I looked at your show engaging minds. So it’s is it engaging minds with Dr G or Dr G Colon and engaging minds when I looked at at the first thing I do is I go like how many episodes does this person have’m like okay.
08:36.79
Howard
It’s Dr G engaging minds.
08:44.30
Craig
ve done over 100 episodes so you’re beyond the what am I doing flailing phase and you’ve gotten to the point where from what I heard you’re no longer hypersensitive to does this guest exactly fit the giant painting that I’m trying to make and you’re more. This is interesting I’m going to go down this rabbit hole with this particular expert. So I’m just wondering does the does your work in podcasting get meta about podcasting like in your own head or do you feel like I’m podcasting about. I don’t know if psychoanalyst is the right word to use but like do you feel like podcasting for you is about your psychology work or do you feel like podcasting turns into like this self-referential I’m using my podcast to work on and talk about podcasting does that make sense.
09:34.71
Howard
No I Think for me, my podcasting work is about my psychology work. It’s just an extension of who I am. It’s just a different Arena I’m playing in so I may play it in the office as we talked about earlier on clinically. I Take that same experience I try to bring it to the you know to the podcast and I know my lane So I’m always looking at the Psychology. So a lot of times I don’t really care what the subject is people will say but I said because all far all my goals.
10:00.81
Craig
Mm.
10:11.33
Howard
Try to find the psychodynamics that are present in that subject. So I try to go on a journey with my guests and look for those aha moments where we’re both going. Wow That’s really interesting.
10:26.37
Craig
Um, yeah, no ultimate destination right.
10:26.44
Howard
Yeah, like I Wow I learned something on that if I don’t learn something on the podcast then I feel it wasn’t successful I Want to start the podcast and be in a different place by the end of it and go okay I actually got some interesting insights for myself.
10:38.82
Craig
Um.
10:44.15
Howard
That feels satisfying.
10:44.73
Craig
That’s yeah I would I would agree wholeheartedly that’s that’s the power that. Yeah I think so let’s let’s turn completely left because I totally want to get to the audio topic. You know where I’m going This has nothing to do with what I’ve been talking about. But.
10:50.20
Howard
That’s the excitement of it. That’s the creativity the excitement. Yeah and I know where you go.
11:02.73
Craig
We started talking about um I’ve I’ve often said but many people say this too that audio the medium of audio without video just straight audio that there’s magic in that audio and yeah, on one hand we are as Podcasters literally in people’s ears. But I Also believe my understanding of biology is the parts of our brain that are involved in audio are much older brain structures that they are often still working Even if you are asleep or unconscious. Um, So I think that. Maybe hints for me that hints at audio is is really special and like a privileged sense and ah so my question was when when we were talking before was does that possibly mean that it could be particularly addictive like I don’t think I’m addicted to listening to podcasts.
11:51.77
Howard
Much Yeah, we have to be careful not to pathlogize too much. Yeah, this medium.
11:52.82
Craig
People who know me well might disagree. But I’m just wondering what your thoughts are about this that particular sense. Yeah like I can be addicted to food for real because of taste and because of the gut brain interaction. Um, but Audio has a completely different set of sense a different sense organs.
12:12.21
Howard
Yeah, you know I I don’t know I’m not that clear on the hard science of it. So I can’t I don’t feel comfortable commenting on that but I do feel from a psychological and spiritual point of view that sound is very powerful if you look at some of the Eastern religions.
12:21.50
Craig
I.
12:31.75
Howard
Sound of um, both in Buddhism Hinduism is so prevalent you know as a meditation and I’ve practiced meditation for 25 years and as you see it hasn’t worked. No.
12:33.59
Craig
Um, which I’m making.
12:44.20
Craig
I think I think Meta I do it too but Meditation is a small rudder and I’m a big ship but it’s important to steer around the iceberg right.
12:49.30
Howard
Yeah but but you know what he yeah but he you know what it keeps me grounded a lot of times before I see a client especially on Zoom I’ll take a minute and just center myself and I’ll use the sound of um so to me sound. Is very ancient. It’s very powerful. It’s very visceral spiritual. It gets me very connected That’s what I find that’s interesting about podcasting is it’s all audio so it takes me on a certain journey I think that is different than.
13:18.44
Craig
Oh.
13:28.90
Howard
Maybe watching a television show or a dependent more on visual because that shut down all I got to do is listen I often think how different people may have been wired when they were listening to radio as a form of entertainment and you know being on our phones and doing Tiktok.
13:43.62
Craig
Um I haven’t thought about that.
13:47.54
Howard
Every 3 seconds and movie and how much and I know there is a lot of research out there. How much social media and things like Tiktok are affecting our brain and our attentions sp etc.
13:57.81
Craig
Yeah, yeah, there were so many things there but that’s a good point about I hadn’t really thought about the historical this say the Midu the social surroundings of the radio. You know as the thing in the middle of the living room. Um.
14:08.64
Howard
Right.
14:15.29
Craig
Where it only was audio and I have listened to um war of the worlds set George is that orwell Orson Welles brain not working.
14:23.29
Howard
Well I’ll share something with you. 1 of the things which is a podcast a different podcast that I’m involved in that I actually produced was one called intimate fame and it is solo 1 person shows written by Scott Edwards Smith that are like old radio dramas and they’re audit. We call. We call them audio dramas and one of the things I was very attracted to was the sense that it felt like it was very intimate like it felt like I had to to listen to these episodes and they’re 1 person shows. So right now.
14:44.68
Craig
Um.
15:01.23
Howard
We have one on Wallace Simpson and 1 on Marilyn Monroe and we’re about to launch one on James Dean but the reason it makes it so me is because it’s all focus on these one these characters talking about their lives. From their perspective in a very intimate way. So it’s all audio. So. It’s an interesting way of presenting their stories.
15:27.40
Craig
Um I I find that kind of material really engaging and I I think it’s also the same reason why I enjoy reading so much because um I love I think it was Carl Sagan said that humans can work magic because we can take this stuff.
15:34.49
Howard
Um.
15:43.29
Craig
Pressed on a piece of a dead tree and then hundreds of years later you read it and my idea is now in your head That’s magic that the fact that when you’re reading. There’s a lot of information there but you have to fill in basically all of it has to be filled in around that all the imagery and the sounds and everything gets added and I think audio works the same way we’re so.
15:48.42
Howard
Within.
16:02.19
Craig
Least I am such a visual person if I read it or hear it with no visual input. My brain just goes. Yeah well of course there’s a visual part So what would that be like and I fill it in.
16:09.78
Howard
But don’t you find that you have a different experience if you’re just listening to something than if you’re watching something I do.
16:15.84
Craig
I think so I mean the visual the visual changed into there’s so much more information that has to be in the visual so you know there’s reason that it isn’t just a screen of snow on the average Youtube video. There’s visual information too.
16:28.52
Howard
Right? exactly.
16:32.55
Craig
I mean there are certainly situations where yes, put the graph up you know because it’s easier to you know that’s worth 1000 words um but even then I’ve I’ve read things where I’m like that could have been a really simple photograph but the the storytelling involved in painting that picture metaphorically really is interesting.
16:51.69
Howard
It be showing to I mean I be you know you made me think as a psychologist I thought well that would be such an interesting research project to see if you prevented the same material almost same visually and audit. Ah you know through sound auditory and see what kind of.
16:51.74
Craig
I will.
16:58.35
Craig
Sure. The auditorially. Yeah.
17:09.46
Howard
If it had a different effect on people’s psychology. It would have to.
17:09.93
Craig
Would have to it would have to there’s there’s ah, a lesson like a side lesson that was done in the podcasting course that I I was part of where we had a student did this and it and it became a thing. We just played for everybody and one of the students took the exact same audio track. So It was him reading a piece of a novel just like the opening paragraph of a novel but it was laid on several different music beds and they are so different. It’s like there’s an electronic sound Mix. There’s like a mystery so and like completely different. You know there’s it changes.
17:29.72
Howard
And.
17:46.72
Craig
The tone What you’re imagining like he’s describing a woman on a platform and then you realize that it isn’t just the same words. It’s literally the same audio and the one that’s got the technom music you feel like he’s reading at a faster more punchy pace and it’s exactly the same audio of the voice.
17:47.64
Howard
Oh completely.
18:04.19
Craig
So there’s so much information in that audio. Um, sometimes I feel like why do we need anything more.
18:08.95
Howard
No, it’s a very good point. A lot of times I I think about it people don’t like as a psychologist don’t realize they’re so focused on the content but they don’t realize all the other things that might come into play like you said the music.
18:20.89
Craig
Um.
18:25.53
Howard
Etc and how that can affect someone psychologically even you know a lot of our work as psychologists have now moved to Tele Health and hasn’t really stopped since covered has somewhat subsided because it’s still there. But it’s different. It’s a different beast right now. Um, I still have most of my clients are doing it through telehealth. They don’t want to come into the office one. They don’t really want to drive and they’ve gotten so used to this medium of zooming and that there’s a whole interesting study too. But why.
18:57.60
Craig
Convenience. Yeah.
19:03.26
Howard
And it’s a different experience of clients and patients that were in there physically in the room.
19:06.80
Craig
Yeah I would have to imagine having only ever done having only ever been a patient of that type of psychoanalysis. Virtually I would have to imagine that if you go to the physical office. It’s going to be. Much more of a controlled environment because like you like as the as the person in the chair or the what do you call the the person driving the therapist come on Craig as the therapist if you you you look you look through the Zoom and you’re like well there’s half your problems right? there like you can.
19:24.63
Howard
There right? ah.
19:36.87
Howard
Right? Or you have to tell a client can you put your phone down. Can we focus Its especially younger people.
19:41.52
Craig
Yeah, yeah, but I’m ah now I’m wondering maybe that actually is helpful because yeah because you can see like if if I come to your office I could really. Mean I don’t know I could be a different person but you don’t get to see me in my normal. It’s like going to the animal in the zoo. You’re like oh yeah, I’m I’m I’m not doing so bad this week Doc, you know and then I leave and I go back to my normal chaos. So maybe in some ways having telepresence lets you really look in the actual fish bowl.
20:00.67
Howard
No no.
20:07.17
Howard
Yeah I think each one of them has different sort of positive and pros and cons if you want to put it that way and different attributes. But they’re they are definitely different animals as a therapist. It’s a different experience. It’s very different seeing someone on a.
20:17.79
Craig
What are you.
20:26.10
Howard
Zoom meaning then it is seeing them in person. Well I know talking to other psychologists. We all talk about how really tiring it is to be focused on a screen all day and you don’t get all the body language that you might get otherwise.
20:30.80
Craig
Um, what’s what’s the me some of the differences.
20:40.61
Craig
Um.
20:45.30
Howard
You know there’s a lot that happens even the way I know very suddenly you talked about music for me letting someone into my office and walking through the door and how they decide to come in will tell me a lot about them. Who they are and what they focus on and what they might look at in my office. Oh look at that painting So There’s certain subtleties I’m missing I actually find it easier if I’ve seen someone for a while personally to then see them through telehealth.
21:01.66
Craig
Um.
21:19.92
Howard
Because I already have a sense of who they are so but on the other side Telehealth gives you an opportunity to see people as a psychologist that’s interesting that you you know and that you may not have seen before you know they live in different cities or whatever and you have different because.
21:23.70
Craig
That’s a good point.
21:37.56
Craig
Yeah, your your reach is much much greater. Your potential reach I’m now I’m wondering So now if we think about podcasting let’s jam that way go back to podcasting Well now you can be here just to be about up about psychology. But as ah as podcasters now I’m wondering. Okay, so.
21:39.76
Howard
My reach is much bigger. Sure Yes, let’s go back to why I’m here.
21:55.53
Craig
We’re in this audio only medium there is a whole discussion about video podcasts. But we’re in an audio only medium and it’s one way and if I’m trying to accomplish you know,? whatever my show is I’m trying to accomplish some goal I’m trying to entertain make somebody laugh I’m trying to actually help them I’m trying to share you know, facts. Whatever it is. Now I have no feedback and I’m I’m just wondering what I don’t want to say because I don’t want to make everything be a disease but what extra difficulties am I Maybe facing as a podcast for that I don’t realize because I have chosen to not have any feedback see what I’m saying.
22:30.76
Howard
My first thought is that probably the biggest obstacle is that we do this as human beings we make assumptions about things. A lot of times with very little data or information. So We start second guessing and if you’re not getting enough. Feedback You may start making a lot of assumptions that aren’t necessarily true so you want to be able to be very careful about that and we’ll base it many times on our own Psychology. So if we are insecure about a certain thing we might interpret everything from the. That insecurity into our assumptions. Oh They didn’t like the way I spoke Oh they whatever it is. They don’t like I’m not smart enough I’m not this enough so not having that interaction comes that I think that’s ah could be a really big danger because we always want to complete a thought.
23:10.78
Craig
Um.
23:27.12
Howard
Even if if we can’t we’ll make up stuff just to complete it are we allowed are we allowed are we allowed using certain words we well yeah, we might make up a bunch of shit just to make us feel complete because that eases our anxiety.
23:33.50
Craig
Um, busted bused. Yeah, you can use any fucking words you want to use So there’s a button for that.
23:46.70
Craig
Um, yeah, yeah, that’s that’s like I was thinking about the the mirroring aspect in conversations or in good conversations part of what helps guide me.
23:46.72
Howard
And you know that’s not true, but it doesn’t matter I feel better.
23:59.12
Howard
God.
24:02.15
Craig
You know me could be anybody who’s talking but helps guide me is seeing how the other person’s reacting if I’m think I’m talking about something innocuous but they’re becoming triggered I’m like oh I can lot of what I wasn’t expecting that I can dial that dial that back right? Um, and that’s a thing I hadn’t.
24:13.54
Howard
I’ll adjust my communication. Yeah.
24:18.80
Craig
Really consciously thought before that. Yeah when I’m podcasting like I have no clue like are we you know are you and I right now triggering people I don’t think it’s very likely but it’s possible. We could have talked about somebody’s addiction. That’s particularly shattering. Um, so that’s great. Another thing. Yeah.
24:29.91
Howard
Sure but you see we are having an interaction I mean you and I are having an interaction so that’s all we’re really and then the rest who knows is that fair and.
24:43.98
Craig
Um I Um, ah.
24:46.26
Howard
I don’t know how you know you’re trying to not do anything that’s going to harm anyone but people can get triggered by you know, walking into Mcdonald’s and yeah I mean you just don’t know what it is. You know you can walk to Mcdonald’s and get.
24:50.79
Craig
Um, yeah, yeah, that’s why it’s called a trigger like it’s It’s a it’s a a trip. It’s a it’s not an obvious thing.
25:03.36
Howard
Triggered by ordering French fries I’m not talking about my my lunch? Yeah yeah.
25:07.91
Craig
The funny part of other people not knowing the things we all talked about we were discussing preferred foods. Minus popcorn is my is my food of choice which fries. No I’m not I’m not Anti-fren fries I’m on Team French fries too. But.
25:18.16
Howard
Yeah, mine are definitely not Mcdonald’s frenchn tries but I do like french fries.
25:24.65
Howard
Yeah.
25:27.72
Craig
Right? Well Howard um, it was a distinct pleasure to get a chance to you know to chat? It’s always fun. You know to like exchange a few emails and I try not to let too much on about how I do this and then we jump on and and never ceases to amaze me how delightful it can be so I appreciate your taking the time. Thank you so much.
25:43.54
Howard
I appreciate I’m going to do a little plug for myself. So it’s Dr. Howard Gloss G L U S says I do have a company called derenaugh health and what we do is concierres type of in home treatment.
25:48.61
Craig
Definitely please do.
26:01.30
Howard
For drugs and alcohol. But other situations too like someone’s really depressed or anxious and has problems Functioning. We Basically do what you would do in in the confines of a treatment center but we bring all those services to someone’s home. So if they’re looking for Discretion. Or a different kind of experience. Some people have to work and they can’t just stop their lives So we tailor a program to people’s individual needs and the other thing is that Ah yes D a RAKNO t.
26:30.21
Craig
Um, that’s super interesting. Can you spell it for me.
26:39.70
Howard
Health the old so that’s it and then the other part as I told you about you know when you ask me about in a whole different world is producing those radio drama type of audio dramas one person solo shows.
26:40.42
Craig
Cool. Um, so yeah.
26:55.94
Howard
It’s called intimate fame and you can just find the podcast that way. Oh good. It’s it’s getting around.
27:00.90
Craig
Wherever I found it in many places wherever you normally listen and your show I I do recommend. It’s getting around but I also recommend looking up. Um Dr G engaging minds is a ah good show. Well it doesn’t have to be why you’re here, but that was the show that we talked about.
27:12.14
Howard
Um, right I forgot why I was here? yes.
27:18.00
Craig
Um, and I think episode 4 of season 2 is the most recent one was about the mind body connection which for people who know me would go oh well Craig would be all over that so cool. All right, thanks again. Howard bye.
27:21.59
Howard
Yes. Okay, Craig it was a pleasure I appreciate the invitation.