Transcript for "Utterance - with Mary JL Rowe"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m craig constantine hi mary thank you for joining me today I we we had a little conversation beforehand and I do my little free association thing and you mentioned the word utterance and.

00:01.58
Mary Rowe
Hello I’m Mary rowe.

00:18.78
podcomm
Okay, that’s like woo that’s a different response to free association about podcasting so tell me about So yeah, like I know more than other people might know so I know that you’re working on host on mic and that your podcast project is is like. Still in the crockpot and you’re you know you’re still like lifting the lid and and like sensing ah needs a little bit more of this and what are you currently thinking about utterance and how that is affecting what you’re trying to write for reading and as host on mic.

00:55.76
Mary Rowe
Yes I have 6 episodes in the world now and through that process. It’s come to my mind that I am engaged in sort of a 2 wo-way utterance

01:00.46
podcomm
And.

01:13.53
Mary Rowe
Sandwiched with an internal dialogue. So the star of my podcast is other people’s words and they’re compiled in a document that I’m going through sentence by sentence and it’s got 1 hundred and 35 sentences so

01:14.30
podcomm
Um.

01:33.50
Mary Rowe
That brings me up to nearly eighty years old note not quite but I might might be changing that. But so that’s and and it’s self described as utterance which I hadn’t noticed before so I’m trying to give it back. In a way that is um, more receptive and it goes with your mission Craig because you want to you want everyone to flourish in the world and you want to do it through great conversations and compassion and mercy and all that well I’d I’d like my utterance about this topic. To convey those things too. So I go into the utterance then I talk to myself I interview myself I look up things and it’s all very personal and then I write it down and then I give it back and so I’m engaged in. A form of Utterance. It’s not a conversation at that point when it’s host on Mike and I’m I’m engaged in utterance too. So.

02:34.44
podcomm
Um.

02:40.19
podcomm
Um, so utterance to ah to utter utterance uttering. This is a very specific. Um I must say it’s a rare vocabulary word but it’s it’s less usual. Most people wouldn’t um. Was going to say trot out but I don’t mean that in a negative way most people wouldn’t trot out the word utter unless something in their mind made them go the word speaking isn’t good enough I need a better word. Um, can you put your finger on like what is it. And I’m not trying to pick on your vocabulary but I’m like what is it about the process that you’re you’re going around here. You know your your process is is circular in a good way. It’s I got positive feedback. What is it about that process that makes you go.

03:13.38
Mary Rowe
Yeah.

03:27.63
podcomm
I’m not just speaking I’m doing something more and then that made you reach for a different word.

03:30.71
Mary Rowe
Exactly That’s exactly what happened so I reached into the body of work. The body of knowledge that I’m trying to share and that’s where I found. Quotations about utterance which which aren’t quotations that I’m going over and the minute I was reacquainted with that it brought back a lot of great memories and I thought that’s perfect.

03:48.84
podcomm
Oh.

04:03.20
podcomm
um what um no no no no I had that I’m not actually well first of all, yes, it was not what I was looking for because I’m never looking for anything in particular but what what you said? made me think there’s something.

04:05.94
Mary Rowe
That wasn’t what you were looking for was it. Ah.

04:14.70
Mary Rowe
Ah, ah.

04:22.38
podcomm
Bashe or something I mean it’s obviously less common but there’s something So yeah, well, there’s um, yes, that definitely.

04:22.70
Mary Rowe
The intent. Yeah, the the intent the and the intent to influence the intent to influence and that means if you want to influence that means. You’ve got to be at your best and you’ve got to be as purehearted as possible because the effectiveness of words that influence people can tell if you are being purehearted and if there’s compassion and.

04:52.62
podcomm
Right.

04:59.80
Mary Rowe
Lots of here’s another old fact here’s another old fashioned word for you if there’s who virtues at play you know, not.

04:59.70
podcomm
Yeah, the intention is ah yes, there’s a lot of content between the lines. Um I’m I’m wondering what your thoughts are on uttering out loud. Ah, even simply speaking out loud changes 1 Ne’s own thoughts. So It’s 1 thing to read to. You know, read someone else’s writing to write your own to read your own writing to write more. That’s 1 process but to pick it up and stand to utter it somehow changes. The the way that I perceive or experience or understand my own thoughts and I’m just wondering how far down the rabbit hole you’ve gone you know now that you’re consciously intentionally uttering and recording and then going around like how well how far down this rabbit hole have you gone.

05:53.60
Mary Rowe
Well I know I can go farther. But I’ve gone I’ve gone pretty far I can go pretty I can I’ve gone farther than I expected also and I keep hearing ah is it. Okay to mention somebody else from the commute. Okay.

05:59.24
podcomm
Nicely dodge shorts your show.

06:11.45
Mary Rowe
Well I keep hearing um Rick Um, do you know what? I mean by Rick. Yes, yeah, he did? Yeah no, that’s exactly right and he’s.

06:15.91
podcomm
Um, yeah, if I’m going to guess you mean Rick Lindbergh and if I get it wrong. It’s going to be bad. Okay I don’t like to guess because if I guess wrong then it’s like oh now we name somebody that we’re not thinking of sorry so rick.

06:30.61
Mary Rowe
He’s mentioned several times to take to create some distance when you’re recording or even from listening and I’ve found that there is an inexplicable clarification that happens there. Maybe we get so excited.

06:34.00
podcomm
And.

06:48.96
Mary Rowe
I Mean there’s lots of highs and lows like oh my gosh I’m brilliant. Oh my gosh this Oh my gosh This is worthless. Yeah, oh my gosh This is worthless and really what you want to be is not self-conscious at all. So in that.

06:50.39
podcomm
Oh yes, yeah. Ah I’m laughing along I’m laughing with you not at you? yeah.

07:08.51
Mary Rowe
Process of giving some distance and coming Back. So I give it at least overnight I try I’ll I’ll I’ll publish late to give it that distance and then when I start uttering my whole thing again. The very act and you already mentioned this so you know this happens of speaking it out loud. It’s like what yeah you know because um I have to rein in my thoughts too and. Try to communicate in a way that people will understand even normal things so something this important that something this important to me I really want to be as clear as possible which I’ve never given myself the luxury of before I really want to be clear.

07:44.65
podcomm
Right.

08:00.48
Mary Rowe
But at the same time. Not I’m I’m consciously trying to avoid reactions like oh yeah, yeah yeah, I’ve heard that before shut both both because I have the same reaction. My listeners have.

08:09.73
podcomm
Um, in in yourself or in your listeners trying to avoid the reaction in yourself in both.

08:19.60
Mary Rowe
Like oh yeah, yeah, I’ve heard that before shut. You know I’m not I’m in the same camp. You know.

08:20.68
podcomm
Um, first.

08:28.96
podcomm
There’s an interesting process isn’t there about trying to sometimes like in my brain I’m I’m very left brain Analytical. It’s like I can think at a certain speed but I cannot write. Or type I can I can type faster I can type in write in chriso about the same speech but I can’t type or write or speak anywhere close to as quickly as I can think and I don’t think that’s ah, that’s not a good thing like I probably should slow my thoughts down. So. So for me, maybe. The idea of uttering forces me to go? Yeah, that thought isn’t worth like letting out of my head you know like nine on a 10 of these thoughts. It should just go on the floor and I think maybe that’s part of the magic of that of of uttering it is you have to fill you have to trim.

09:15.75
Mary Rowe
Well yeah, that’s also that’s also new to me. Um, and I’ve been getting an experience with that in toastmasters which I think you’ve heard of or if yeah, so.

09:27.91
podcomm
Yes.

09:32.46
Mary Rowe
I Been getting experience with that. So I and then there was a business networking international. That’s another group where you’ll only have thirty seconds to talk about your business and at toastmasters you only get five to seven minutes for your speech. So I give I give myself nine minutes.

09:40.80
podcomm
M.

09:51.88
Mary Rowe
For these episodes and I do I I cut out a lot and and maybe I’ve spent hours researching I try to save it somewhere my show notes are now getting longer then then.

09:52.99
podcomm
M.

10:08.77
podcomm
That’s a good thing right? if you want to go deeper. Go here right.

10:10.60
Mary Rowe
Then then the exactly because I don’t want to? yeah I don’t want that can muddy it up explain this explain that explain. But then there’s a certain amount of 6 you’re right? What you said about 10 or fifty minutes ago or something I’m figuring it out.

10:27.23
podcomm
Yeah, well, there’s a certain So I’m thinking there have been times where I’ve you know, stood up in front of a small group and tried to explain some project and there’s there’s like a moment when when things go badly. There’s a moment when I suddenly realize that I’m standing.

10:29.91
Mary Rowe
Yeah.

10:45.65
podcomm
You know, like literally standing and I’m talking but I have completely like ah a moment in a moment I realize oh I have no awareness of anything in the room like I’m just it’s just me talking and and I’m like whoops that’s a problem there. There are. Other times where I’m in front of ah, a group or like on a forum and I’m really aware of like everybody in the room and like how they’re feeling and and to me it seems like when I’m intentional about how I’m uttering or how I’m speaking. Part of what that means is for me to make sure that I am continuously aware of what’s going on around me and I don’t know if you’ve if you’ve tried to play with that like have you caught yourself like you’re recording host a mic and then suddenly you’re like oh I forgot I was recording.

11:38.26
Mary Rowe
That’s where I want to be I forgot I was recording. Ah, that’s that seems to be the best place but but you know ah Seth is it okay to say Seth yeah.

11:51.31
podcomm
It’s your Mary It’s your show. You can talk about anybody you want you can talk about anything you want I Even told you that we’ve always thought there’s no leash Run Run run.

11:57.31
Mary Rowe
I I know I know Seth seth ah Seth is such a good example because you know he knows he knows he knows and and he he really really understands. His subject. He’s gotten deeply into it and then he gives it back and when he’s doing video.

12:19.94
podcomm
Right? Any scene respond life I Tried to say it this way I sell the response I tried to say it that way I saw the response.

12:27.12
Mary Rowe
And whether he’s interviewing or just host on video Mike I can’t see that he’s reading anything at All. There’s no filler words you know he he is so deeply understanding what he’s talking about. And so engaged in this is what I have for you. He knows that maybe people don’t watch those lessons at all or anything and it it doesn’t it doesn’t it doesn’t dap in his damp in his zeal and um I I as.

12:56.70
podcomm
Right.

13:06.33
Mary Rowe
Fire through the exercise of the podcast to get to a point where I have that much ownership of what I know where it’s so comfortable for me to for me to share it with and identify the people who. Want to have a conversation around it and I’m so comfortable with what they have to share and it becomes like this is this is comfortable. Why not? yeah.

13:34.51
podcomm
I Think that’s a great place to strive to be um when I pause it’s not because I’m bored. It’s because I have too many things and I’m like filtering what is um.

13:46.29
Mary Rowe
I.

13:50.76
podcomm
What are you trying to share like do you and that’s a really hard question so you can be like that’s hard. But what are you trying to share like do you have a clear vision of where you’re going and a clear way to get there.

13:58.40
Mary Rowe
Yes, yes, yes yes, and um and the vision is. We’re going to be Okay, maybe.

14:09.70
podcomm
Um, it’s a really solid potential possible vicious I Love it. We’re gonna be okay, maybe love it.

14:17.60
Mary Rowe
Because it’s not guaranteed so in the document which has a very heavy title but the universal crisis affecting mankind it. It lays out. You know, just how bad it is on the 1 hand but on the other hand There’s a second part that says this is the disposition we can adopt and it just explains us how to do it. So the the very clear vision is the very clear vision is it’s going to help if we. Have some shared understanding of what we’re doing just like you’re conducting the podcaster community and you’ve set up sort of people have complete through free reign and I think you’ve.

14:59.12
podcomm
Um.

15:12.93
Mary Rowe
Ah, shared me twice already that I have free reign here. But you’ve also ah put in some kind of like guidelines or maybe even rules because you want it to be fair. Yes, you want it to be that kind of a space and you’re also still developing it.

15:14.84
podcomm
That.

15:22.21
podcomm
Yeah, and and it’s a safe space. Yeah.

15:32.84
Mary Rowe
Exploring Well can we do this? Can we do this? What’s going to make it better. Well I’m just looking at I’m just excited about a world that has that same kind of somebody is overseeing this making a safe place. There’s lots of room for creativity. But there’s some guidelines and um and so I’m going to try try Again. So your question was do I know what I’m trying to say and I am trying to say I can’t think it Ready. We are going to be ok, but we’ve got to do it right? We’ve got to do our part.

16:10.00
podcomm
High rhythm and yeah, yeah.

16:11.89
Mary Rowe
And it doesn’t mean we have to be the same in any way except in the very things you know the compassion and the mercy and the conversations and the understanding let my dad had this phrase to each his own.

16:29.29
podcomm
Now.

16:31.60
Mary Rowe
And that carried that carried a lot of I Love it.

16:36.19
podcomm
There’s there. There’s a couple of like classic aphorisms like um, good fences make good neighbors you know and there’s ah is it a frost poem about 2 people walking a fence line you know putting the occasional stray rock back on the.

16:46.50
Mary Rowe
Ah.

16:53.13
podcomm
On the fence line and just the idea of you know, um you know physician healed thyself fix my own problems First you know become aware of the small scale problems around me and demonstrate that I can take action and work on that and then that makes me think like oh maybe I can go to the neighborhood block.

16:59.16
Mary Rowe
Who.

17:11.43
podcomm
Meeting and we can try and solve this other larger problem and like work up it never ceases to like never underesturate the power of you know, um, motivated individuals trying to create change because that’s the only thing that’s ever created change is like somebody goes hey I got an idea and the some else goes. That’s a good idea. Let’s work on that. So I definitely agree with you I think you’re you’re thinking around how utterance um and how being mindful of what utterance is and how you’re doing it that self-feeding upward spiral that you’re creating for yourself is a great way to to like clarify your thinking and and sort out. And I got 50 million things like a possibly say which 1 goes next you know in this next episode and and that’s really hard right? It’s like really hard to do that.

17:52.94
Mary Rowe
Ah, and that tit. Yeah.

18:00.81
Mary Rowe
And I really really really love it.

18:07.20
podcomm
Now I would have never I tried it to be sarcastic in my I guess but no, really you like the oh I would have never guessed. Yes, yeah.

18:14.56
Mary Rowe
Ah I I have this picture of you a craig with the fences because we do need them. But I see you um you know making gates in the fences it you are you are so we can.

18:25.77
podcomm
And woo that’s a good metaphor. Yeah man.

18:33.17
Mary Rowe
Shut it open it. Lots of for free-flowing permeable.

18:35.74
podcomm
Um, there’s a thing about borders right? If you don’t have any border at all. You don’t have a thing like you know like your country has to have a line around it now we can discuss how permeable the line should be but bacteria and cells they have little lots of little tunnels and doorways for things to go through. But.

18:50.79
Mary Rowe
Have.

18:55.44
podcomm
You have to have a shape Otherwise you don’t have the thing. So yeah, that doesn’t That’s like ah it’s a great idea but it doesn’t really tell you? Yeah Okay, how permeable you know like how permeable should the cell Membrane be and if it’s not just right bad things happen to the cell. So.

18:56.30
Mary Rowe
Yeah I hadn’t thought I hadn’t thought of that before. So.

19:13.86
podcomm
Yeah, the devil as always is in the details. But I think your um methodology your your idea is very um, like it’s ah, a really clear example like it’s 1 thing to to like go into the bike shed and tinker and build and then come out like today I made a bike. But it’s a whole nother thing to like have glass walls and be like here’s me here’s my process and and I think what you’re doing is is really useful obviously for yourself but also useful for others to see how you are using utterance and self-awareness and. Careful choice of what you’re saying and and continuous referral to source documents I think that’s a really good process for people to consider. So yeah, share that.

19:57.57
Mary Rowe
And that’s why I came so I could so like so I could hear you use your amazing mind to put my words into something beautiful and coherent. You mean it.

20:09.89
podcomm
Oh stop, you don’t need my you don’t need me to put things in a coherent fashion I do appreciate the compliment. Um, but as much as I hate to say it. Oh that’s probably a good place for us to stop today. Um, this doesn’t have to be our only I always call these are like single serving size conversations doesn’t have to be our only conversation.

20:16.19
Mary Rowe
Yeah, it.

20:28.83
podcomm
Mary. Thank you so much for joining me. It was a distinct pleasure.

20:32.67
Mary Rowe
Goodbye craig.