Transcript for "Unstuck - with Robbie Swale"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine hi Robbie welcome to the show. It’s a pleasure I totally love talking to people. Um, what guesting number am I for 2022 do you know? yeah.

00:01.72
Robbie Swale
And I’m Robbie Swale

00:13.39
Robbie Swale
A what for for me. Ah I think this is 4

00:17.10
podcomm
Yeah for you? What number is this? Ah so I get to be number 4 so when we look back at the end of this and people are going wait. What I love being able to just cold start.

00:25.34
Robbie Swale
4 but you’ll be because of the way this podcast works. You’ll be 1 in terms of being out and available to the public.

00:31.11
podcomm
Yes, because those where everybody knows I put these out these are these are like hot takes what the hell are we talking about Robbie and I did this conversation at the beginning going I feel like we know each other so the conclusion was that we haven’t ever actually talked before but then what.

00:36.40
Robbie Swale
Which is amazing by the way.

00:49.67
podcomm
In my head was you reached out or or posted on Linkedin very early in 2022 that you were setting a challenge for yourself. So tell me what the challenge is.

00:59.93
Robbie Swale
Yeah, so I set myself the challenge to be a guest on 100 podcasts in 2022 specifically in which to tell the story of my book which just came out and there are there are lots of thank you. There are lots of kind of ah reasons for that. And interesting things about it like 1 is is because I really care about the what the story of that book can do which is I care about people not not doing things if that makes sense like I hate it when people like or like I don’t hate it. But i.

01:31.40
podcomm
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:35.94
Robbie Swale
I Know what it’s like to feel the pain of having an idea and something you want to do and then not doing it sometimes for so long that it that it passes passes you by and sometimes just for a long time until you finally you know somehow burst through and and do the thing and it is sometimes go. It’s like I can’t.

01:47.72
podcomm
Yeah, what’s the opposite of Rage Quit Rage Rage start.

01:54.48
Robbie Swale
Fucking Dude I can’t fucking stand this any longer I’m gonna do it right? like and it’s like the the actual absolutely right? The rage start. That’s sometimes what happens? Um, but I realized.

01:54.53
podcomm
Yeah, when.

02:01.44
podcomm
And that doesn’t necessarily go well like raid start can have a horrible face plan ten feet down the road I’m just you know like.

02:07.46
Robbie Swale
Yeah, although I didn’t like I kind of think that at least it’s out at that point like at least you’ve done it and no matter how badly it goes for me the kind of the creative hell of having something that you know you want to do and haven’t done now like is much.

02:12.99
podcomm
Yes.

02:26.97
Robbie Swale
Me It’s always been worse than having done it and it gone wrong because at least then I showed up and I did something otherwise I’m just some guy with an idea who kind of knows he’s letting himself down and so I’d rather have the face plan I think I say this now like.

02:31.64
podcomm
Yeah.

02:41.60
podcomm
Ah.

02:43.66
Robbie Swale
Let’s see yeah you know if this ah if this episode ends up terribly and we still put it out. We’ll see if that was still a wise thing or you know or if if guesting number 10 was is terrible I think you’re right.

02:47.35
podcomm
Yeah I can tell you 2 minutes I can tell you 2 minutes and 50 seconds this is this will wind up going out. But anyway we we’ll circle back to that and this is not going to be a thinkiner. Um, so there’s 2 threads in there that I’m like oh I have to choose. I think I’m going to pull on. Let’s talk about the book first because I think it’s important and and you’re not out doing the book junet to me the book junet is when the agents reach out to me and I just summarily do delete all emails from people who aren’t actually the guests if you aren’t the guest if you’re listening don’t even ask as my answer is no.

03:16.52
Robbie Swale
Um, yeah.

03:22.60
podcomm
Um, but you.

03:23.27
Robbie Swale
That’s funny just because because I do have a podcast as well and I kind of had that attitude. But then I got like so my podcast is a podcast for coaches and I got a thing from a Pr ah um person doing the book book junkit or whatever you just called it and I was about to delete it and then I read the name.

03:32.78
podcomm
No, ah.

03:39.72
Robbie Swale
And it was a woman called Marcha Reynolds and I was like I bet I’d Google her first to find out if she’s anyone interesting and I googled her and she’s like the global guru’s number 5 most influential coach in the world and she was asking to be on my show and my show is about I can’t remember like maybe a max max twelve fifteen episodes in something like that.

03:49.20
podcomm
Um, trust.

03:59.55
Robbie Swale
And so it was like it was actually ah a big watershed moment for me. So now I’m a bit careful I don’t delete I personally don’t delete them straight away I check that they’re not someone like super famous who wants to be on my show. Absolutely, it’s like well I don’t recognize his Pr ah, guy’s name or whatever the thing’s being promoted and so.

04:02.51
podcomm
Um, um, nice. Ah, Tim Ferriss but you don’t recognize his name right. There. That’s a good point.

04:17.16
Robbie Swale
Because of that with Marsha I now don’t delete them but I do well I don’t instantly delete them. But I do delete almost all of them.

04:22.97
podcomm
Um, almost all of them That’s a good point. Oh I like your I like your kike tries to be hyperbolic and you’re like no let’s get some reality I’m like okay fine. Um, since I’m doing tangents What episode number are you on people know what I’m about to do what episode number are you on.

04:37.31
Robbie Swale
So I know what you’re about to do as well because I have heard bits of the show before um I am on number 34 it’s just come out.

04:40.87
podcomm
Oh you’ve listened That’s awesome. Ah I say this all the time people listening to this show are podcasters. So we all know it’s a long lonely journey yelling at your own screen. So I like to point out anybody who gets beyond 6 or 7 or 8 or 10 you know. It’s it’s like writing a book I mean it’s really hard and if you don’t press the publish button it really didn’t happen. So I like to take a chance to like at a boy or at a girl or at a guy or whatever for people who really get far along and by 35 you’ve clearly found your footing Ah anyway, the. The book. Um, so tell me I’m not like oh write the book I’m just like yeah too many things tell me about the book tell me the title of the book and what was you and I talked about there’s ah, there’s a moage There’s like you did something and then it became something and there’s something. It’s this whole like I’m making an infinite figure 8 gesture.

05:21.30
Robbie Swale
F yeah.

05:37.72
podcomm
Tell me about the book and where did the book come from.

05:39.67
Robbie Swale
Yeah, thank you for the question. So let me do it. Let me let me tell it how it happened really? So how it really happened was that I was wrestling with basically feeling anxious about.

05:57.91
podcomm
Oh.

05:58.54
Robbie Swale
Pressing the post button on on anything right? Not I didn’t have anything as grand as a podcast or even a blog. You know I had like a Linkedin account and a Facebook account and a Twitter account and even posting like a joke on Facebook I would find myself like the it was like kind of. This was probably like 2016 so it was after Facebook had changed a little bit and it wasn’t the kind of cuddly place. It had been in the early naughties it was like already getting it but I would so like ah you know I would find my mind going around 10 times about whether to post a joke about the football or something and I was feeling anxious the whole time and like I just started.

06:27.99
podcomm
How’s it gonna land right.

06:32.81
Robbie Swale
A year earlier probably setting ah out on a new entrepreneurial journey. So I I was kind of leaving my old work behind and stepping into coaching which is what I do now and I kind of knew that I was going to need to be I was oh well not need to. But I was going to want to be public in more than I was and that this thing and I really didn’t want to feel that anxious about pressing post on anything right? It was unpleasant and painful exactly it was less like sometimes and so my coach and I designed a experiment as a way for me to test can I can I get through some of this and.

06:55.72
podcomm
It’s just 200 words right.

07:06.42
Robbie Swale
The experiment came from the fact really that he used to be a visual artist and he used to like painting a series of paintings and he was like what if you write a series of articles and we decided on 5 um and I would write them on the train. Um the next 5 times I got the train from where I live in Southwest London into the center of the city. And that’s you know and I did that for five days and the the game was write while the train’s moving stop when the train stops proofread it onces post it on Linkedin because no one reads linked it. Linkedin was my reason for choosing that it turns out a few people did.

07:35.68
podcomm
Um, but.

07:39.16
Robbie Swale
Some people liked it. Some people. Um I don’t they didn’t comment on the first 1 or 2 but I think I probably did get a comment on the third or fourth something like that and then I went on holiday and I realized it was a good thing that I’d done for me and I was glad that I’d written these five things and I’d read a lot of. What people like Seth Godin had to say about writing practices and I thought this is my chance like I’ve started I’m moving now. So I’m gonna keep going and I turn it into a weekly practice and so then I wrote once a week on the train. Ah.

08:01.40
podcomm
So.

08:11.63
Robbie Swale
And until I stopped getting the train because I left my other work so I was mostly working for myself. So I wasn’t getting it as much and I realized the train journey was often about 12 minutes so I’d set a timer right for 12 minutes it’s not always even 12 minutes which is funny when we get to the the title of the the series of books that I’m releasing but like it was about 12 minutes the time that I checked how long it was.

08:28.78
podcomm
Um.

08:30.79
Robbie Swale
And so I set a timer for 12 minutes right when the time is going stop when it stopped proofread wants post on Linkedin and then 3 years in to my practice or about two and a half years in Seth Godin released this bam off of his blogs which I stupidly unnecessarily wonderfully spent $200 on

08:48.65
podcomm
Um, yeah, the behemoth is bigger than a baby right? like it’s It’s like yeah reverse scale.

08:50.10
Robbie Swale
And I still so big I can’t even really pick it up to read it. But it’s great. It’s on my shelf behind me. It’s absolutely massive. Yeah there’s a great photo of a baby lying on it to show how how massive it is but the great thing about it is. It’s just you know, just in speech marks a repackaging of Seth’s blocks um, is beautifully done. That’s why the justice in speech marks but I then thought oh there’s an interesting thing that I’ve got here which is three years of these 12 minute blog posts and actually the people Linkedin’s quite hard to navigate is that kind of slightly messy platform. It’s like quite hard to kind of find someone’s blogs and certainly hard to read through 140 of them or whatever.

09:18.37
podcomm
Um.

09:25.68
Robbie Swale
And thought well there are probably about 10 people including my parents who would like to read all those blogs from start to finish and it’s really just me not doing anything to make that easy. That’s making it hard for them and I should at least make it easy for them and it’d be a fun thing and I could call it if I put it into a book I wrote this book in 12 minutes which I think is.

09:42.34
podcomm
Um, and catchy right? yeah.

09:45.37
Robbie Swale
Funny and challenging right? And then I said to one of my friends who’s an editor I was like can you help me with this. It just doesn’t want much editing because that’s the point of it but it needs a bit and when we started talking about it. He said well can the book inside do what that catchy challenging title does. Can it help people get out of their own way get on with it if swale can write a book in 12 minutes what can I do um and it turned out it could and and this for me is where it it went from being a funny thing to being a bit of a kind of shock and a bit profound because it turns out that if you just sit down and write for 12 minutes a week write about what you’re interested in because you don’t really have time to think about anything else. Um right? And if you’ve been wrestling yourself with getting out of your own way and avoiding the procrastination and doing the things you want to do instead of being a person who doesn’t do the things they want to do and you’ve been learning to do a new work where you’re helping people do what they want to do I’d been writing about that.

10:25.40
podcomm
Just right? There’s no time to do real work right.

10:43.15
Robbie Swale
Every week for 3 years and so I ended up with I’d like I’d actually written a book that said something not just a random collection of thoughts and in the end I then you know and this is important I then procrastinated on that for 2 years for various, you know, like all procrastination very good reasons.

10:59.59
podcomm
Right.

11:01.24
Robbie Swale
The book didn’t come out that autumn like I planned it came out last december I just got the first bit of it out last year and in between those 2 years 1 of the things that happened I got some great advice. Why don’t we make it a series of books so people can there’s instead of one really slightly too long book about with 4 parts about the creative process. It’s gonna be 4 manageably sized books. Um snappy ones about each stage and the first one was called how to start when you’re stuck um and we repackaged the 12 minute thing into the name of the series which is the 12 minute method um and what I like about what I particularly like about doing this show with you is that? Um, this. Podcast is basically the 12 minute method except it’s like 20 minutes isn’t it. But the important thing about the 12 minute method I’ve learned and it we could well well, it’s actually not a bad ending I’m tempted to say we should do it but I’m having a real a really good time. So let’s not stop and but it’s like the the thing about the 12 minute method to say that I’ve learned even only like.

11:40.95
podcomm
Um, because because we’re at 11 minutes or 45 seconds we’d be the end right here.

11:51.25
podcomm
I want to go to 20

11:59.60
Robbie Swale
Three months two months to two months after the book came out so two months after the 12 minute method became a thing for anyone other than me and the 2 guys who will help me with the publishing um is that the 12 minutes is like a brilliantly arbitrary amount of time which for your 12 minute method thing. Whatever it is e g this podcast. You can ignore the 12 minute thing the point is you choose a fairly arbitrary amount of time you do some work for that amount of time and then if it’s something that you’ve made like this conversation. You just share it because the eighty twenty analysis of a podcast is that like um oh the 20 analysis of a blog for example is that like have you written it.

12:26.85
podcomm
Right? yeah.

12:37.19
Robbie Swale
If you’ve written it then you’ve done you’ve you’re mostly done right? If you’ve proof read it once you’re definitely mostly done and with a podcast. It’s like if it’s got ah an amazing beautiful theme tune a lovely poetic intro great. But that’s that last 20% the most important thing is is there a podcast which is out.

12:38.68
podcomm
You’re mostly done.

12:52.93
podcomm
Um, yeah, thanks I steal from the best I think originally I got the idea from I think I first saw David Nobinsky who was a coach in the podcasting workshop who was talking about minimum viable.

12:54.71
Robbie Swale
And this but this is a great example of that. A really great example of that.

13:09.80
Robbie Swale
Um, nice. Yeah yeah.

13:10.75
podcomm
Podcast and we make it like a joke well about minimum viable prod I be like what’s minimum viable podcast and I’ve said but probably not for a couple of episodes in this show I wanted to have more cool conversations with people because conversations is my personal mission so I’m like okay how can I do more of these with all the podcasters that I know I’m like well I don’t want to edit okay, no editing. I don’t want to like I don’t want to have the thing in my mind like oh I have to finish that like okay that means it’s out 4 minutes after I’m done like I just kept picking like I made a list not literally, but a list of you know I want this feature those are in I don’t want this feature those are out and then what I was done was like well this is going to be a really thin show in terms of production. But.

13:45.21
Robbie Swale
But all those things could have been the reason that you didn’t start the podcast right for you because you already had podcasts out there I doubt that was likely to happen. But it’s like all those things you just said like not knowing how to do the editing. Ah you know all those things you mentioned like.

13:47.28
podcomm
I Have oh yeah, absolutely.

14:02.77
Robbie Swale
They’re the reasons we don’t do the things we want to do and you’ve just done a great thing just like just strip them if you can strip them out strip them out better that it’s done than that than that you’ve you’ve not made this thing and this thing is a great example of that because you know it’s It’s great and it’s snappy and um, it’s fun to listen to.

14:03.32
podcomm
Yeah, you can really bash on that. Yeah.

14:12.86
podcomm
Yeah.

14:18.96
podcomm
I Think so thank you for saying? um well, nobody’s listening. So um, what? um yeah, so I’m really glad that we got a chance to unpack I think the people who would be listening to this show I don’t know the audience is growing but I believe the people who are listening.

14:20.49
Robbie Swale
I Hope this one is I Hope that’s true of this episode as well as as well as yeah, true true.

14:38.21
podcomm
Are going like yeah because their journey will be similar. They will have shipped the thing because most of the people on here have some sort of functioning podcast but not all of them I do have people I tell people you don’t have to have a show or even have had a show to be on this show if you’re passionate about creating podcasts. But you’re stuck come on the show. You know? um. So yeah, so I’m glad I got a chance to unpack. Not just what the book is but like how you ended up with a book that you didn’t set out looking for a book. Um a close nearby topic is what do you think. People get wrong about you. But maybe I’m going to go in different direction you so I I lurk people before they come on the show I spend 10 minutes like and who’s remind me with it. Yeah and on your personal website coaching is basically the thing that’s upfront. And it’s actually really not obvious that you even have a podcast you have to go on the about page and and 2 wo-thirds the way down like oh he has a podcast now if you I mean if you know how to find podcasts. It’s easy to find but I’m wondering about. Do you see the balance of how you’re presenting yourself is that kind of change as your as you get more famous or as your podcast gets more famous or as the books come out or you. Are you going to pivot like I’m super interested in like how personal branding changes over time.

15:51.79
Robbie Swale
Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting. So I made a decision when I how did it go I think when I launched the podcast. So basically I have what you might call 2 sides to my business and. Again, 1 of the people I worked with on publishing the book. We talked about this quite a bit because I was wondering. Should there be so I already have 2 brands right? Essentially I have personal brands I have Robbie Swale it was Robbie Swale coaching and I when I published the book I realized I wanted it to just be me not not me and the coaching thing.

16:19.31
podcomm
Right.

16:26.26
podcomm
Yeah.

16:28.50
Robbie Swale
Which is why it’s http://robbieswale.com now and I have the coach’s journey which is the name of my podcast and a couple of business bits that surround that like a community for coaches when I was thinking about the book coming out I was talking to 1 of the the publishing experts that I’m working with. About should I have a third right should the 12 minute method also be its own separate piece so it was like 12 minute method is here which is like books get unstuck creativity productivity piece. Yeah, coaching piece in the middle where it’s like yeah who knows coaching piece in the middle which is like the.

16:55.71
podcomm
Yeah, have me consult have a presentation right? here’s my ted talk.

17:04.90
Robbie Swale
Craft that I love and working with leaders mostly but it could be can be other people and then the thing for coaches on the other side and we decide that was too much and the reason that it was good to split the the coach’s journey stuff and the other stuff is essentially you can think of it like I have a B to B bit and a B to C bit So my. B to B is coach to coach which is the coach’s journey which is a separate website logo um all stuff because I love the the craft of coaching and I love helping those people do their thing and it turns out I accidentally. Because I wrote an article about my journey once created a little audience for that and then later on um I made this podcast which people like coaches like or a certain ones of them do and so that felt like that’s a nice like um.

17:44.44
podcomm
Um.

18:00.38
Robbie Swale
Contained thing and it now has some patreon stuff that goes with it and that kind of thing and then the rest of it stayed separate because that’s like you know that’s like meet b to c or like Robbie to normal people. So it’s like Robbie to coaches and Robbie to normal people because ah you know exactly? yeah and and and more so that’s where that.

18:11.35
podcomm
Yeah, thou who art stuck right.

18:19.29
Robbie Swale
Comes from and I sometimes wonder about it like exactly the coach’s journey could be like a thing on my website but at the time it felt right to separate it kind of wanted the podcast to have its place and then to have a place for coaches to go who knows at some point I might might bring it back because now we’re talking about it I’m not I’m not I’m not so you can hear my voice I’m.

18:25.88
podcomm
Um.

18:34.69
podcomm
Um, it’s it’s tough.

18:39.10
Robbie Swale
In this moment I’m less sold on it than I thought I was actually on on them being separate.

18:43.60
podcomm
My actual secret mission is to get people to go Hm and realize my thinking needs to be thought more thoroughly. No, it’s not um, but that is often a good sign when when either myself or the persons the person or persons that I’m talking with when somebody in the conversation goes.

18:46.49
Robbie Swale
Um, yeah, definitely.

19:02.81
podcomm
Ah, and in fact, the noise is is like an internationally like when you make that noise. That’s that’s also how you determine that somebody else has accepted your problem for like if you call tech support. You’re not actually getting anywhere until the tech support person goes Now you’re golden.

19:06.38
Robbie Swale
It’s good isn’t it. Yeah.

19:17.63
Robbie Swale
Yeah.

19:20.57
podcomm
It’s all downhill. At this point they acknowledge. That’s a problem and they’re going to work on it. So I think there’s a visual to that when you see people like they start they start actually thinking. Um.

19:25.43
Robbie Swale
Yeah, although it’s a tricky thing as a podcaster because like I felt like you know sometimes I think on my show like you know you can tell the difference but those pauses there occasionally on my show because my questions sometimes get long and confusing. They’re like sorry what did he just ask me I get that a bit as well as well because you kind of you can when you’re watching or in the conversation you can’t tell the difference.

19:47.28
podcomm
Yeah, that well there’s a whole art to asking questions and yes you need to provide enough I would say it’s kind of like helping somebody iceate. You have to give them enough context so that they can push off of something you can’t just be like who are you like I mean it would be a very special guest in a very special show of format if that worked.

20:06.00
Robbie Swale
I’ll be cool wouldn’t it. That’s so someone is listening do that. That’s a great show. Yeah.

20:06.80
podcomm
People went ah well you do that ship that that’s your first show. Yeah so I try to give people often I warn people sometimes I will get all rambly. But I promise that I will grammarly create a nonsensical way. What do you think about like I will make a question on the end so that you get a chance to see Craig think or see Craig learn followed by me asking a question but I’ll point out that in good conversations. There aren’t always questions sometimes people are just talking.

20:21.19
Robbie Swale
Yeah, yeah.

20:32.14
Robbie Swale
And and it’s It’s really nice and it’s it’s not ah you know I was lucky to grow up in a family where having what I think of as now as generative conversations like conversations that kind of I Always think as like go up and up and up and perhaps in terms of understanding obviously not every conversation was like this. But.

20:42.12
podcomm
And.

20:48.82
podcomm
Right Have you met my parents and and.

20:51.50
Robbie Swale
We Do We do We did? And yeah, we did and do sometimes have conversations like that and I feel very lucky about that because once you’ve been in a conversation like that which doesn’t they usually don’t involve any questions but you can still feel the conversation going somewhere which it wouldn’t have gone if anyone was just thinking by themselves and I think that’s a. Yeah, really important point actually the come questions on everything.

21:13.23
podcomm
Um, awesome I think that’s a really great place to stop Robbie it was as I say at the beginning of pleasure because I’m always sure it’s going to be awesome and it’s awesome. Thanks so much for taking the time. Thanks so much for self-service scheduling I didn’t even have to beg you to join the show. You were like Johnny on it. So I love that.

21:28.42
Robbie Swale
Ah, well when you set yourself a challenge like I have to go my own way I have to get creative and I have to take every opportunity because a hundred is a lot and I’m not sure that’s like 2 a week I’m way behind it’s it’s the start of February like I need to hustle from now on.

21:32.36
podcomm
Yeah, just.

21:42.15
podcomm
Yeah, terrific. Well I’m going to publish this in 4 minutes and then you’re on the hook because at this point.

21:46.99
Robbie Swale
And then I’ll share it and then it’ll be the first one out which is amazing. So thank you Craig most most importantly like you’re making it that little bit more likely that I will get to somewhere I’m not sure I’ll get to a hundred but I hope to get somewhere respectable with that challenge.

21:58.92
podcomm
Oh you have to get to a hundred. We’ll do what the end if if you’re 33 short we’ll sit down and do 33 sequential episodes and then a new show cool. All right, let’s get the heck out of here all right? Thanks Robbie.

22:06.86
Robbie Swale
I’m totally up for that. We can do like 3 minute 3 minute episodes love it Love it. thanks Greg