Transcript for "Trust - with Brandy Heyde Montague"

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00:00.00
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine today I’m talking with Brandy Heyde Montague. Welcome Brandy thank you for joining me I always think it’s funny because a lot of times we feel like the guest tonight we feel like we’re downshifting because oh we’re starting…

00:05.57
Brandy HeydeMontague
Hey thanks for having me excited to be here.

00:18.64
Craig
…to get serious because often we have very animated conversations before we start as we have had twice now. So there are many things that you and I could talk about we could talk about your show. We could talk about your mission may talk by angels we could talk with you. There’s lots of great stuff to talk about and I think today we’re going to try and turn completely left and geek out…

00:20.75
Brandy HeydeMontague
It’s true.

00:38.50
Craig
…about podcasting I’m going to say: hardware Equipment Microphones Macs and people might go wait. What? but anybody who’s a podcaster or who’s been thinking about podcasting invariably runs up against the challenge of yeah, do I need Headphones? What microphone do I use? Like all this. Stuff that most of us would have never worried about. Me? like headphones. Yeah, whatever they they go on my head so I can listen. But now all of a sudden these things that would just be technology that don’t matter now they’re like the stuff that we’re standing on or that we’re talking through. And we begin to wonder am I doing it right? What? what? what is right? Ah so I’m sort of setting you up with a softball because you knew we you were gonna talk about but I’m I’m just thinking what are some of the things that run through your mind when things go wrong. So like a situation where what is that I hear you know when you have a gas or like is that of mind is out of there. Like what are the kinds of things that run through your mind when you’re trying to podcast and like the stuff is starting to get in the way of the actual podcasting I guess is way to put it. Yes yes, see much better.

01:43.70
Brandy HeydeMontague
In the way of the conversation. You know, … but ah gosh I have to say I don’t feel like a ton gets in my way in the conversation. So interesting. Interestingly enough ah, most of the people I interview are either working actively with animals so you hear animals in the background or they are outside so you hear kind of nature happening. … or. Working from home and inevitably the Amazon guy shows up at the door and the dogs go nuts right? …, and so it’s funny. The the first thing that comes top of mind from you when you ask that question is just the fact that from day one I have been making I remember even my first guest.

02:23.29
Craig
I.

02:39.29
Brandy HeydeMontague
Talking about just making them comfortable with the fact that it’s ok if crazy stuff happens happens in the background. You know my very first guest we were talking and her kids came home from baseball practice and came running through the house and like straight up to her to tell her girl all about what happened and we were on live you know video.

02:58.95
Brandy HeydeMontague
And so it’s… I think something that I’ve kind of just accepted with my show is that things are going to happen and we all kind of deal with that in our lives and so. As listeners. You know we? …we kind of go with it now I will say if something crazy happens that kind of really derails us for you know, 60 seconds 90 seconds 7 minutes then I will definitely get rid of that and then we’ll we’ll kind of.

03:27.20
Craig
This.

03:31.95
Brandy HeydeMontague
Talk again and and start back over with the question which is always painful on the editing part because the first version of the question is always much more authentic and better than you know my repeat. But yeah, so.

03:39.97
Craig
Right, the do Over. Do you find that I’m torn between setting a question up for people. Let’s let’s just keep talking to the podcasters out there. Do you find I’m going to say. Are very that that makes to me makes it clear that you’re very good at guiding the guest through the experience of being podcast. That’s not a thing. You’re very good at guiding them through that experience and I’m I’m thinking that a lot of podcasters are nervous about that like.

04:07.21
Brandy HeydeMontague
E.

04:17.50
Craig
When I first show up like Craig literally when I first show up for these I’m like I don’t know like I I actually oh what’s that error code me what’s going on here and like you kind of have to like poker face it no I know what I’m doing I totally know and I’m thinking. Do you recall? …are there things that that still like. I wanna say freak you out but things that still like knock you off the off balance a little bit and is it around the gear or is it around when you can see a guest get flustered or are there things that still knock you off balance.

04:46.30
Brandy HeydeMontague
For sure I mean I’m not going to lie I Still get nervous going into every single podcast interview whether I’m the host or the interviewee the guest.

04:55.76
Craig
Oh I Totally agree with you I Never raise my arms so you cannot see me sweat just to be completely candid you know because I’m the host I agree that natural response.

05:05.20
Brandy HeydeMontague
Talk often I talk often with my guests about the sweating. So maybe that’s something we all as podcasters have because it it is nerve wracking… I will say ah the technology usually gets me less than.

05:14.77
Craig
Yes.

05:24.87
Brandy HeydeMontague
Just my nerves of carrying the conversation and making sure that the questions that I’m asking are getting us to interesting information for my listeners. So I would say that’s where the bundle of my nerves sit.

05:29.40
Craig
Who.

05:41.94
Brandy HeydeMontague
Doing an interview … as well as being a guest and answering questions in a way that keeps people engaged and interested. …you know something else interesting I will say on the technology front and it is when things go slow right? or things get blurry.

06:00.69
Craig
Ah, right.

06:01.18
Brandy HeydeMontague
Or things hang up and then you know I don’t know if everyone will be able to relate to this or not or if you can to Craig but there have been so many times that I have to continue talking as if there’s nothing held up on the screen and you kind of pretend to just keep going.

06:12.90
Craig
…yeah, there’s 4 pixels representing my guest hello.

06:21.30
Brandy HeydeMontague
Exactly exactly you try to just keep going even though you can’t make eye contact or see each other because one of the 2 of you is frozen. You know that’s that definitely is a little nerve wracking for sure. Okay.

06:26.99
Craig
Yeah. …so you’ve really touched on a whole bunch of great things there I like that you brought up. And I’m I’m vehemently nodding along people can’t see because no video the point about you said your bundle of nerves is centered around. Ah, for me… I’m just gonna say for me, it’s centered around the performance anxiety of knowing that people are listening like they’re going to be listening later unless maybe we justwait this whole thing people are gonna be listening later and their gift of their time even if they’re listening sped up. That’s a. Big deal because that’s the one non-renewable resources time. So I think I do better when I don’t think about it when I start to think about I’m consuming. People’s time multiplied by like just at least 2 people listening right? So every second I just wasted 2 seconds of the total human available time. And and that to me is a a chasm like I’m always right next to it and I just don’t look don’t look in there just like look at the levels on the recorder or pay attention to the person or try to maybe hew to a line or suddenly realize it’s 7 minutes that I haven’t taken any notes these things pop up. So I like that you I appreciate that you acknowledge that and and thank you for sharing that because I think everybody I have never heard a podcaster. Maybe just I haven’t talked to the super famous yet. But I’ve never heard a podcaster who wasn’t aware of that and maybe that’s the magic sauce is just being aware that you know. Laughing is with great power comes great mental illness but also responsibility. I think that yeah that we know you know you I know you know other podcasters. We know that only we see how hard we work but we know that. We have a responsibility to try to do something try to accomplish something. So thank you for I don’t know leaping on that sword I’ll leap with you. What’s how about how about sometimes I like to flip things over what are, still like kind of thinking around technology but also thinking around like.

08:21.25
Brandy HeydeMontague
M.

08:38.17
Craig
Getting good conversation. What are things that guests that that you see guests doing like oh all guests do this that they shouldn’t be doing like and I don’t mean like get close to your mic I mean like they show up with imposter syndrome or they show up and they don’t feel like they have something to talk about or like that I mean that kind of… What do they all do that We wish they would just know you you need to relax beyond that or outgrow it. You’re better than that.

09:01.75
Brandy HeydeMontague
Yeah I mean along those lines of of what you’re saying I do think most of my guests are pretty nervous and I’m always thinking gosh you have nothing to be nervous about because your story.

09:18.50
Brandy HeydeMontague
Really needs to make its way out into the world and you know when I have my guests on and I think all of us all of our guests because this is true about every single human being on this planet There’s a story within everybody that I feel like the world needs to hear. And I honestly I do try to anchor back into trusting that I would not be sitting in a conversation at this moment with this person if what is going to come up in the third mind between us is not meant to be something that goes out into the world. And reaches other people and so I think if I keep anchoring back to that grounded place and I do it a million times in every single interview. It’s like remember meant to be here remember I meant to be here meant to be here. Because it truly… it is. It’s such a gift to have.

10:13.84
Brandy HeydeMontague
That little bit of time together to share and to talk and put that out into the world and let it ripple you know? So yeah.

10:22.90
Craig
Yeah I dislike having to always talk after guests say really nice things. Not not about me I Just like that was really nice and now I have to wreck it by talking.

10:29.38
Brandy HeydeMontague
You know it’s a good and honestly you know you were asking kind of at the beginning. What makes me nervous. It’s it’s those moments right? It’s the moments where you are deep. In the conversation but you also know you’re trying to keep it moving and you want to make sure you’re asking the right questions and sometimes that becomes so much pressure on my shoulders in the middle of the conversation and in that moment to try to execute all of that stuff and yeah I mean.

11:07.20
Brandy HeydeMontague
That’s where I feel the nerves when I sit down at my microphone. That’s where I feel the nerves throughout the conversation and then I do just keep trying to remind myself that whatever I say is what’s meant to come out and it’s what’s meant to say and and move the conversation along right? so. Try to trust that. Ah.

11:25.14
Craig
My favorite saying is what could possibly go wrong. Do you want that list in alphabetical order or monetary damages order right? the.

11:28.87
Brandy HeydeMontague
Exactly Yeah well and you know what’s interesting about that too right is that I’m thinking I was my mind was just catalogting logging all of the crazy things that have gone wrong and yet here I am I’ve survived them.

11:45.27
Craig
Yeah, are.

11:48.78
Brandy HeydeMontague
It’s been Okay I’ve figured it out sometimes more complex than others but you know I’ve gotten through them and here I am and I’m still going I’m still podcasting like I’ll live through no matter what goes wrong I’m going to live through it and we’ll figure it out and it’ll be fine.

12:01.74
Craig
Yeah, multiple ideas popped into my head. 1 of them is more and more because I also volunteer in spaces that teach people how to podcasts or thousands of podcasters more and more people ask me and in random like you know in date of their life. Hey. Should I start a podcast and I go no, you should not and they look at me like what and then I say because if my saying no is enough to dissuade you from you know that whole thing about like if if you are so I want to say rabidly passionate about sharing people’s stories and creating a platform I mean you can also be. Coming out from the wrong point of view but nobody would listen if you’re coming at it from that openhearted space. You’re going to just climb over every hurdle like I might die hold on. Let me get another one like you’re you’re just going to move right through all those things and that’s somehow I wish that I could share that like I need to give it to the guest. You know, like as a sugar cube like here have this. So they can understand that. That’s what I’m willing to do so that they don’t have to do anything because they could just sit there I’m going to do all the work.

13:03.70
Brandy HeydeMontague
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and to just kind of like help foster that trust that this is going to work out. Awesome no matter how it goes you know and it will speak to somebody. Because I also think I have to remind myself too that you know even if the episode I’m doing reaches 1 person and it makes a change in the day for that one person it was worth doing it and they’re reaching more than that you know and it’s exactly.

13:32.29
Craig
…because how would you ever found that person to find how would you ever have found that person to have a conversation with them. They’re in Idaho I don’t don’t know why my jokes always about idaho no insult I know but. That one person I would have never bumped into them like I would have never had that conversation. So if I have it and that one person listens I’ll point out my mom doesn’t even listen to any of my work. Yeah, it’s just like why would I want to listen to more of you. Ah.

13:53.37
Brandy HeydeMontague
I I don’t think mine does I think she tried 1 time but I don’t think she makes the time. Yeah, right.

14:05.18
Craig
Yeah, but that a lot of the things that we’re touching on here are like a constellation around coming from the right point of view or coming from the right place like ah with an open heart or having an idea in mind about… ah left turn with no turn single a lot of guests. Not. Like 90% but 1 out of 10 ask me? Why do you want to talk to me or or they want to know what I want to talk to them about and I don’t say this then but internally I call that the imposter syndrome and it never There’s like no way to get around it if I tell them what I want to talk to them about. Or if I tell them that I don’t have any idea what I want to no matter no matter what I say it doesn’t solve the actual problem which is that they don’t feel like they deserve to be heard maybe or they don’t feel like they have something to share. I’m wondering if you have any… I mean you’re probably just going to nod along and say yeah, I get that all the time too because that’s a very common thing. I mean there are the the tall head of people who are super famous or who are doing a book tour like yeah, they they want to be on the show. But I think most people—just the average random person that you would encounter on the street doesn’t feel like they should be heard beyond the six feet you know immediately around them and I’m just wondering if you have any like any things that you say to them. You know when we’re doing outreach or in precalls or how like how do you coax people out of their shell. Maybe not a good metaphor. How do you? How do you reassure people that no I Really do want to talk to you. You really do? ah.

15:29.78
Brandy HeydeMontague
Yeah, you know I I deeply research all of my guess. I don’t have that many guests you know I’m I’m back to going well I’m not I’ve been on a break but when I start back up I’ll be going bi-weekly so there’s not that many slots? And in my case with the type of interviews that I’m doing where people are doing something to help animals and help the environment There are many many people out there and so what ends up happening is I am typically pursuing a guest specifically because I’ve been connected with them somehow or I… I have just fallen in love with the work they’re doing and I’m really passionate about it. And so what happens when I do my outreach and I don’t know if this would be helpful for other podcasters out there I actually do research quite a bit and so when I do outreach to them I am specifically talking about. Things that they are doing that I specifically want to share with the rest of the world. So perhaps that helps in getting the interviews I think also like I said there’s like a connection there. So I I will say 1 thing that I have learned through podcasting. Is I try to trust my gut when I meet somebody that I think oh that person would be a good guest I force myself to research and email them within the next day or message them or whatever and say hey I heard you yesterday speaking at this blah blah blah blah.

17:12.27
Craig
A. Ray

17:20.25
Brandy HeydeMontague
I looked up this I think you would be amazing on the show. I do really try to specifically talk to like what exactly I want to talk to them about on the show. One other thing that I have noticed helps me is I have a one pager that is a Google doc. Just says like this is the podcast. This is these are my top 3 goals with this podcast and this is a little bit of the format of how it works and then you know the link to go listen to other stuff and I’ve noticed that that totally lobs the ball into their court. And they can go look and the people that have said no to me will typically say you know I don’t have time right now or whatever and then I move on. But I feel like most of the time when they come on the show. They know they know what they’re going to be talking about. I do send an outline ahead of time. So that probably helps I I mean I’ve tried to think of things that um, well and I mean there’s a million different ways to run your show right? and I don’t know that mine is the right way because I do end up putting a lot of time into it. But in terms of just like once I sit down with the guest.

18:15.87
Craig
You’re way more organized than but.

18:25.30
Craig
Rave.

18:34.91
Brandy HeydeMontague
I do think they have nerves but I do usually think they are pretty clear on like what we’re going to cover and what we’re going to talk about I do also in my emails ahead of time when I give that outline I do give people the tell me if there’s anything that you’re not okay.

18:40.93
Craig
Talk about.

18:51.80
Craig
Right? Yeah, where don’t you want to go.

18:53.19
Brandy HeydeMontague
Talking about? Yeah, exactly especially because most of my shows I shoot them live So by the time we’re on camera. There’s a whole nother level. Yeah, it’s that’s freaky. It is it is but.

18:57.74
Craig
Yeah, that’s a whole nother complexity and. So what are your thoughts. It’s like because I I mean I do a lot of work in terms of outreach. So I think without exaggeration at the moment I probably have it’s got to be 100 different people that I’m in communication with that I’ve messaged sometime within the last three weeks and I’m on every platform you know like sending them know who are the people on Instagram who are people on Facebook mess moment and like but they’re very lightweight conversations. It’s like hey would you be interested in joining me for a short conversation. They say well maybe and then like it might take ah weeks months in some cases years before things come together I actually had. Somebody I was asking and she’s like well, I’ll be really busy in you know, the next month I’m like oh okay, she’s like because I’m due and I’m like oh! But if I check back in about a year and she’s like yes, please check back in four months and like you know because if you’re if you demonstrate to people that you’re willing.

19:51.70
Brandy HeydeMontague
Ah, yeah, exactly Yes, yes.

20:02.92
Craig
I don’t want to say play the long game if you’re if you’re not in a hurry if you’re willing to like well I really do want to talk to you? So when works for you? Well I have to move to you know another country like okay well ah I’ll check back with you in six weeks and then like well how about next and but then it comes together and you’re like this was totally worth. Like all the work and the waiting and and I think you you make a really good point also about there’s probably a clever turn of phrase for demonstrating that you’ve paid by by actually thinking about them like when you send one of those emails to somebody they open and they’re like oh this is clearly brandy has spent. Multiple hours thinking about me. So there’s no way to fake that you absolutely can’t fake having spent time on them when you send that kind of communication. So I I think that I don’t spend as much and my question now is going to be what do you think about it now that you’ve been on a show where the guests or the host doesn’t spend his of time preparing for the guests.

21:00.70
Craig
But I think those those 2 there’s like there could be a different balance for different podcast hosts. So yeah, what are your… any final thoughts about now you’ve been on a show where I do some research but I don’t show up with a preformed plan?

21:12.24
Brandy HeydeMontague
…you know and I will say too, just in case, this is confusing for people I won’t actually like plan plan until we’ve set a date and it’s going to happen like the week ahead but I you know I think for me.

21:32.21
Brandy HeydeMontague
I Almost feel like this comes back to a topic we touched on a couple of times which is trust that everything is what it’s meant to be and I think there’s millions of podcasters out there and every single one of us.

21:46.64
Brandy HeydeMontague
Is unique, an individual in what is going to make sense for us and what’s going to work and I also think that’s evolving like what I two years ago when I started this I was a very different podcaster in process or than I am now. I think that I don’t think there’s any.

21:55.26
Craig
Okay.

22:06.52
Brandy HeydeMontague
Right? Or wrong way to do it Honestly I think exactly the way that you’ve done this this is perfect like here you and I are we’re having this honest conversation I Love it. I Hope that it it reaches people and you know we didn’t have to do a ton of prep work and I think that’s great. And then you know I have interviews that have been amazing and I’ve done a ton of prep work and those are great Too. So I think for me, it just keeps coming back to trusting that. It’s what it’s meant to be every conversation is what it’s meant to be yeah.

22:41.86
Craig
Terrific, terrific and we’re overtime as much as I’d love to keep going. This show is supposed to be about 20 minutes long so I would just say Brandy that was a pleasure to actually record one of these really cool conversations that we’ve had doesn’t have to be our only conversation.

22:44.63
Brandy HeydeMontague
Ah, yeah, ah.

22:50.77
Brandy HeydeMontague
You were right there.

23:00.36
Craig
I wish you the best of luck on the resumption of your next season of your show. I’m sure you’ll be doing great things. So thanks for joining me.

23:06.80
Brandy HeydeMontague
Thank you. Thanks for having me. bye.