Transcript for "Transitions - with Jessica Burdett"

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00:00.00
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome this is the podcaster community show short conversations that are not just about podcasting because as I’ve said before I’d like to take the scenic route. My guest today is Jessica Burdett welcome Jessica how are you. I’m guessing. It’s daylight where you are I’m guessing you’re in the same time zone as me. How are you?

00:19.11
Jessica
Hello I am good I am in the central time zone and it is daylight but with lots of rain.

00:28.90
Craig
It’s hot where I am and not raining yet. Um, we were talking beforehand. Ah, there’s a None places. Any conversation can go especially if you don’t know someone? um and I think that’s always an interesting question when you.

00:29.52
Jessica
No.

00:44.00
Craig
I say this a lot to people who how do I have good conversations like well. The None thing you do is you don’t record them because regular normal people. They’ve never had a good conversation where they said to their friend I’m coming over at Tuesday Eight o’clock I’m bringing a bottle of wine I’m going to record and it’s going to be 20 minutes it’s going to be awesome people go what you know? so. Just by saying we’re going to have a recording of the conversation. We’re changing the framework and from talking beforehand I know that you sort of I’m going to say stumbled in a good way into taking the podcasting course. But.

01:04.34
Jessica
Ah.

01:16.93
Craig
Maybe already even in the back of your mime but particularly now you’re thinking about using podcast in like a structured research context and I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on if you imagine trying to collect information from people is podcasting a good way to do it or is it. Maybe like the lazy way to do it or what your thoughts are on like deploying podcasting as a tool for research always for the good of course. But.

01:41.95
Jessica
Yeah, to be fair I never think a question has like 1 answer so asking me is it this or that it’s just never gonna be this or that for me. Um.

01:54.58
Craig
That’s an astute observation.

02:00.55
Jessica
I Think it’s less about is it like a good way or the right way but like does it let me be in the creative space and because when I am learning about things I have to.

02:12.43
Craig
Um.

02:19.65
Jessica
Give myself space to play and dig into it and have ideas for me without having to put them in what feels like a box and getting the words out through a pen onto paper feels very boxy to me.

02:37.28
Craig
I say I don’t write Well I mean I can type I can type really fast but not like prose or English Um, and I think that there’s definitely um, my mind my mind wanders in a good way.

02:42.96
Jessica
Fit.

02:55.44
Craig
To an article I read recently about something called babble like B a W B L E and this article was talking about using babbling as a way to refine your thinking and a way to learn so ah on a on apee of baby’s babble. Um.

02:57.00
Jessica
Yes.

03:13.47
Craig
And at first they do it like ah you know they’re just making sounds and you know there’s kind of like a it’s been but and then when they when the other other people respond they’re like oh I guess that makes sense let me try stringing Together. You know like they sort of like figure it out. They just babble until it works out. Um, and if you think about how much information is contained in the babbling. There might be metainformation. The child is energetic. The child is hired but generally, there’s very little information. A word might come out but you’re like yeah, but just because that’s the sound you made and that doesn’t mean that’s what you were trying to say um but us like you say so as I’m babbling on.

03:39.69
Jessica
Um, yes I actually have a great story about that.

03:49.70
Craig
But you can also think of babbling as generating raw material for refining your thoughts but tell me your story about babbling.

03:53.57
Jessica
Um I have a seven month old almost eight month old actually now daughter and so she is full of babbles. She’s currently been doing lots of dad dad dad dad dad da and today she was laying on the floor and my husband got a video of her.

03:58.71
Craig
Um, congratulations.

04:12.31
Jessica
Talking to this disturbing parrot puppet that we have who’s named Francisco that my husband won in a white elephant gift exchange and she’s laying on the floor holding in Francisco the parrot saying da da da da da da da da dad da da da da.

04:31.16
Craig
You know man.

04:31.97
Jessica
And there was a very distinct dad in this. It was definitely not an intentional word but it made for a great a great moment.

04:38.28
Craig
Um, yeah I’m trying to remember the there are that it’s um, I’ve seen people make jokes about trying to translate dog. You know and then those like the I think it’s like a far side cartarian is this mad scientist and he like finally gets it working and when the dog translates to install the barking translates to hey hey hey hey, hey hey hey hey hey hey you don’t like yeah you’re like right. There’s no information embedded in the actual words, the information is embedded in how that stuff is said um and ah the first thing I thought of was that not attempting to draw a parallel between your seven month old child and a dog I’m just saying I’ve I’ve seen that before where.

05:17.10
Jessica
Um.

05:31.69
Craig
You can get lost in trying to look for meaning when there isn’t meaning there. You should just be like you know I should just Zoom out and enjoy the humor of babbling babies and and barking dogs. Um, that makes me want to ask more questions about research and ph d work. Ah.

05:34.61
Jessica
And then.

05:50.72
Craig
Why What makes you say that you want to pursue a Ph D is that has that been like on your radar for a long time or is that kind of like now I think I’m ready to do that or like how did you set your sights on that because I think that’s going to tell me a little bit more about what you meant what might end up doing with podcasting.

06:05.92
Jessica
Yeah, it is not a thing I have committed to but it is a thing I have done a lot of research around and have a lot of interest in so I work in the coaching space I do professional and personal development coaching and there is. A lot of research out there around coaching in businesses and like more corporate research around coaching I’m really interested in being able to add to the coaching space in more developmental research. Like how can we use coaching and development and how does it? How does the process impact development and I’m fascinated by Transitions. So I don’t know it’s just an area where I have for a while had a lot of interest in being able to contribute to the coaching field with. More research and as I’ve done my hunting out of programs and research and trying to make sense of transitions for myself and talked to experts in the coaching space. They come back to me like ah I don’t know anyone doing that Work. You should do it.

07:19.68
Craig
A good sign vinna.

07:19.96
Jessica
Which is on one hand. Wonderful and on the other hand like oh darn it I was hoping to have a place to start So that’s a bit of what’s what’s making me interested in it.

07:34.10
Craig
That’s neat when you find a space. There’s a quote at the edge of my mind about somebody giving a commencement speech saying that? Yeah, it’s not so important. What you do as you find something where there are people that you admire who are doing something interesting and you can sort of like Chase the interesting part of it. Um, if you find something where everybody knows what it is then you kind of miss your window and if you find something nobody is excited about it. You’re either right in front of the tsunami or you’re in the wrong.

07:50.32
Jessica
And the.

08:05.58
Craig
You know you want to play baseball and you’re on the cricket pitch Good luck. Um have you have you thought further about how you would attack it like you seem like you really want to use podcasting as a way to do your research and. I Don’t know I’ve ever encountered. Anybody who said I really want to do a Ph D because I have this really cool idea for how I’m doing the data analysis or the design of the research you know most people are like I’m really super interested in the topic and you seem super interested in the topic of transitions. But you really also seem. I’m oddly interested in using podcasting as part of your research and I’m just like what’s going on there I may be completely off base too Just like say it doesn’t It’s true.

08:43.11
Jessica
And.

08:50.15
Jessica
Yeah, um I think I’m more thinking of it like podcasting as a way to start exploring my topic um rather than the way I would necessarily commit to doing it.

09:01.83
Craig
You.

09:07.10
Jessica
I’m certainly more interested in doing research that is more um, like story-based research like what bemet brown does than in doing like number research. Granted there is overlap.

09:22.22
Craig
Um, how many’s going to want a p value somewhere right.

09:26.69
Jessica
I Recognize you can’t get away from numbers If you’re going to do research? Yes, but so it’s like being able to start capturing stories I feel like we’ll play a really significant role in shaping my thoughts around what. Would want to do more specifically with the research because a lot of feedback I’ve gotten is that I would need to be more narrowed in and so I figure if I can start like capturing stories and talking to people who do do transitions work in the podcast space then I can start noticing more trends.

09:50.40
Craig
Um.

10:03.70
Jessica
And patterns and where my interest goes as a way to like pre-research I haven’t thought beyond that about like would I truly use my podcast for research because like I said I have not signed up for.

10:12.65
Craig
Yeah.

10:18.22
Craig
Ah, fortunately, nobody’s ever going to hear that you were even talking about it. Um, ah tell me more about transitions like are there particular like when you when you say the word transition. What what vision are you having in your mind. What is that.

10:19.72
Jessica
A Ph D Just yeah.

10:37.60
Jessica
That is just about the None question I have in my podcast. Um, what comes up for me. This is great because I should I should answer it if I’m going to ask people it.

10:37.82
Craig
Entail for you.

10:50.61
Craig
Um, I’m going to push back about that. Well at times I ask questions I have no bleep and clue what the answer it like I was oh no, but this I don’t have a just see of here you try and answer it So I do that a lot. But anyway so yes.

10:59.62
Jessica
Okay, that’s fine I mean as a coach I Also do that. Um, exactly ah transitions for me are about spaces of change.

11:07.20
Craig
Um, supposed to have the questions I’m not supposed to have the answers as the coach right? Anyway I’m sorry transitions.

11:18.87
Jessica
In our lives and they are exciting to me because there’s movement happening and so the fact that there is movement happening means that if you lean into the movement. You can have a lot of really lovely. Things come out of it. Um, it’s a huge space of Identity development and I think as a culture we tend to be very judgmental of transitions and just want to get through them as fast as possible because they’re. Definitely uncomfortable.

11:57.29
Craig
Yeah I think it really depends on the nature of the transition too. You know it’s like oh I’m changing jobs or I’m changing houses or relationships. Yeah, um, but yes, it’s nice when things don’t feel rushed.

12:10.37
Jessica
Um, now.

12:14.85
Craig
I’m just trying to think I don’t know that I have a good answer for that question I don’t know.

12:20.97
Jessica
1 of the things I like to also ask is like what comes up in your body when you hear transitions which when I was getting feedback I got a little pushback on that question because it’s it’s a little bit of a challenging question.

12:34.74
Craig
Um.

12:40.83
Jessica
But I like asking it because I think that checking in with our bodies tells us a lot more about like what’s the deeper story to um.

12:48.66
Craig
Um, that’s I’ll buy that That’s true I’m I’m going to say absolutely nothing in particular comes up around transitions for me I’m like but then again I can also think of some big transitions where yeah that was a big deal. You know. X decades ago when those transitions that was a big deal. So I Definitely think I understand what it would be like to have a visceral reaction some sort of visceral response to that type of.

13:15.43
Jessica
And her.

13:21.89
Craig
And want to say event I Want to say opportunity I Want to say transition change of space change your place cool.

13:25.68
Jessica
Which maybe is for you like you may experience transitions as more of the excitement and positive and opportunity it like in what I’ve seen so far. It feels like people tend to experience transitions either as more like. That’s overwhelming and a lot or as that’s exciting and like let me run at the transition because it means something new.

13:48.92
Craig
Her I think I tend to fall back on my favorite polish proverb which is not my circus. Not my monkeys you know like oh look at that transition coming at me. What do you want to do for lunch you know like just no, it could possibly go wrong. I I think that it probably just stems from like I’m I’m Imagining. Everybody’s answer to that like what is one’s reaction to change and challenging transitions. It’s going to depend on how old you are and how many challenging transitions you know after the None you’re like you know what? these transitions aren’t so challenging anymore.

14:27.80
Jessica
And did you choose it or was it more something that was truly not by choice or felt like it was forced.

14:28.60
Craig
Um, yeah.

14:34.10
Craig
Um, what what what? I wanted this the first thought that I just had was about visualization so pre-visualizing. Um, so one could. Visualize you know like your boss says hey here have a transition for a Tuesday you know and then you’re like yeah you know and and you could like take the evening and go home and visualize all the different permutations so you could visualize it after you hear the train horn at the crossing but you could also visualize transitions. You know like. What would I do if I lost my job or what would I do if the local supermarket burned the ground like where’s the next one or what might I do if I lost my car because I can’t afford to fix it. You know you could you could just run through all these situations well that I do if I hit the lottery like I actually know the answer to that question but by visualizing. All kinds of random transitions. You’re probably never going to visualize one that you are actually going to encounter. Um and I’m just wondering what in um, are you interested in learning about how people I’m going to say deal with transitions like what are people’s experiences of transition.

15:28.22
Jessica
Um, and.

15:43.41
Craig
Are you interested in trying to figure out tool sets that people can pick up. You know, like hey everybody you know when you after you get out of high school. You also need to learn this thing which is about whatever actually works for oh wait. There’s None different ways of doing it for None different kinds of people. Um are you. Feel like you’re still in the I need to figure out what transitions are and how those affect people or do you feel like you are super interested in like how do we make transitions easier or better for people experiencing them. You know diagnosis versus cure type of thing.

16:07.30
Jessica
Ah, well. Again in the multifaceted response to you? um.

16:17.82
Craig
Oh no, I’m intentionally throwing a dichotomies now I’m just like I mean make up a question that sounds like it has a 2 you know a or b and then throw it at you and just to make you find c.

16:25.41
Jessica
Um, so kind. Um, so I am interested in understanding the emotional experience like the human experience of transitions. Um, better like what is happening. In our brains and bodies. How do we encounter transitions as a culture. Um, but I am really interested in also being able to explore like how does coaching as a modality work with. Seasons of change and transition because that is that is my career field. Um, yeah, so like I I think with the podcast space I’m more interested in more of the the former because.

17:07.77
Craig
That’s your wheelhouse right.

17:19.83
Jessica
It’s more I’ve intentionally tried to create it as like an exploration space like go broad so that I can start looking for more like patterns and trends.

17:28.17
Craig
Um, go quick. Go do a None episodes.

17:37.57
Jessica
Yeah, trying to figure out where it fits in the in the schedule right now. Still.

17:39.40
Craig
Um, yes, that is the hard part and like both figuratively. How do I fit this into my life but also literally like well you know as soon as you’re trying to talk to another person. So if you’re just doing host on mike. Arguably you can do it at None in the morning hiding in your closet. You can you know crank out 5 minutes of recording but when you need to talk to other people then suddenly it’s like okay we got to schedule this and if you want to talk to them in person. It’s even worse cool um, watching our time fly past. Anything else. That’s like top of mind now after having talked for None inutes that you want to touch before we dash out the door.

18:17.51
Jessica
Sure I think something that was an interesting thought for me as we’ve been talking is I have always said that I am not an auditory learner. But then when we were talking at the beginning about using podcasting as an audio. Learning space. It struck me that I actually am pretty good at listening now and I think that’s something that’s been largely learned as I’ve become a coach but it’s funny to be like welcoming a space of learning that is. Very auditory and pretty fun to like see things shift there.

18:54.98
Craig
Um.

19:01.30
Craig
My next thought is ooh because yeah, you’re really leaning into the transition and forcing yourself to go from? Um, whatever you’re more comfortable in whether it’s visual or reading or you’re forcing yourself to go into the space and then yeah, um, but. Pretty much think if you have an idea in your head and we try to have a conversation. Oh look the idea keeps coming up because that’s how our brains work they follow those threads. Cool cool, cool. All right? Ah Jessica it was.

19:24.18
Jessica
You.

19:31.60
Craig
Ah, pleasure to to get a chance to talk I believe we’ve been on a couple of what I call them hollywood square Zoom calls you know where there’s 20 faces in the room but it’s nice to get a chance to meet you and thanks for taking the time today.

19:38.40
Jessica
Same to you great to meet you too. Craig.

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