Transcript for "Rich - with Danny van Leeuwen"

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00:00.00 podcomm Hello I’m Craig constantine.

00:02.49 Danny van Leeuwen Hi Craig I’m Danny Van Luen I’m also known as Health hats and I’m known as Health Ats because I am a person with multiple sclerosis I’ve been a care partner to several family members end of life Journey I’m a nurse. I have led several electronic health record implementations and I’ve been in the csuite of Health Care. So I wear a lot of hats.

00:30.27 podcomm Figuratively for sure and literally before we press record we kind of got into the topic of how you see podcasting as being a very rich experience for you like all the things that you get from it and i’m. And then we started talking about audio and you mentioned blending how podcasting being an audio medium it blends together a number of different things that you already were passionate about and I think it’s super important to note like you’ve you’ve also done significant amount of blogging and. And we also talked about how that’s very unidirectional I totally agree I blog a lot and it’s very 1 way and I get on my soapbox way too Often. Craig does not need a megaphone. Do you recall? what your experience was so you have a musical background. You’re you’re also a musician and. When you started podcasting and the first time you brought somebody else in and and realized I’m going to say realize the power of having that second person engage in a conversation. Do you remember what that was like and like what sort of ideas came to mind from that opening.

01:37.56 Danny van Leeuwen Well actually my first episode was it was the anniversary of my son’s dying and I I had this video.

01:56.58 podcomm Um.

01:56.66 Danny van Leeuwen You know a vh vhs video that um my my boss at the time had videoed an interview with my son at my fiftieth birthday ah about 2 months before he died and so I took.

02:11.22 podcomm Um.

02:15.62 Danny van Leeuwen I scraped the audio off of that video and then told stories about you know our experience together. Um, especially in his last couple years and um. So I didn’t really um, interview anybody in that first episode but it was like you know oh my god you know it’s sort of like I you know I held my nose I took a drink and jumped right in to the possibilities of audio.

02:46.95 podcomm M.

02:52.68 Danny van Leeuwen And I didn’t really add um music until you know a few episodes in I have a cousin who’s a musician and I was talking to him and he um I oh hang on 1 second. Okay, um.

03:08.16 podcomm Sure.

03:12.45 Danny van Leeuwen Yeah anyway, and so um, ah he he’s a musician and he um he did some work. He did some you know created some pieces for me to use. Um and so that was.

03:14.84 podcomm You took about adding music. Yeah.

03:29.51 Danny van Leeuwen You know, then it opened up my mind to the possibilities of music and oh my goodness I’m a musician and you know you know just how to do that? yeah.

03:36.63 podcomm So yeah, so many things become possible when you when you realize that you had it’s It’s almost like ah you know a cubeville like a giant old office spacer. You have all these cubes when you when you stand up. It’s like the whole like everything is different. They call that you to call it like gophering.

03:49.90 Danny van Leeuwen Yeah.

03:52.69 podcomm You know when you stand up and look around you suddenly realize that yeah the space that you were in these. Ah these parameters are artificial. What is what is the thing That’s currently like when you’re creating your show. What’s the thing that you’re currently most curious about.

03:57.54 Danny van Leeuwen Yes.

04:10.25 podcomm Is it The other people is it. The topics is it trying to succeed at a kind of communication. Is it.

04:14.19 Danny van Leeuwen Well, it’s sort of yes um I feel like it it shifts so you know so I’m I’m in this business and I of health care and I’m in this ah business about learning and so. I sort of follow my nose and whether it’s um, you know I meet people who are or I know people who are really interesting and so it’s just the individual um or like. Right now I’m on a you know or I get on I get on a kick you know for 1 of the first kicks I ever had was um, um, young adults with complex medical conditions who are transitioning.

04:55.65 podcomm Um, right.

05:10.37 Danny van Leeuwen From Pediatric to adult medical care and I interviewed a series of people the the young adult or was a young adult a parent and then the the 2 of them together. And I did a series So then it was like you know it was like that was the the series. Um, you know or it’s about chronic pain or you know it’s like um so it depends. Um.

05:28.55 podcomm Ah, the through line. Yeah.

05:41.72 podcomm Do you? Okay all right? You’re ah a smart Guy. You do it a lot and you’re really clearly curious. Um, so 1 question I have is. Yeah, how do you reign that in like you know there’s only so many waking hours and you can only do so much Stuff. So How do you rein that in and I’m wondering if audio like oh this has to fit in I’m air recordinging fit in podcast does that help you like well I can’t do that. That’s a visual concept.

06:06.77 Danny van Leeuwen No, no, no that I that’s never come up but what has come up is that um I did of a hundred and forty five weekly episodes and 500 weekly blog plus podcast episodes and just recently I I decided that um, you know in each episode. You know, takes from 6 to thirty hours to produce

06:43.35 podcomm Um, right.

06:45.40 Danny van Leeuwen And um, so first I I I went to a um, alternating interview and on mike episode and then recently I shifted to giving myself 2 weeks. To produce the um, the interview episodes just ah, it was getting to be a lot. You know, just a lot and and so I’m really appreciating being able to take my time. On the interview episodes and it’s more time to play music so that’s good.

07:22.91 podcomm Are there any other yes, the the mistress azure eats all of my time right? I get I go way down the rabbit hole are there any other things like either systems or Mindsets or processes that you use to sort of.

07:30.90 Danny van Leeuwen Um, lose.

07:41.66 podcomm You know when you find a new possibility to sort of figure out like do I want to pursue this possibility versus continue you know like if you did a thousand episodes the way you’re going now that would do a ton of good like you know how do you decide whether to just keep doing what you’re doing or whether to go in a direction.

07:56.99 Danny van Leeuwen I don’t know I just do it I mean I don’t I don’t I’m not that that’s not the kind of thoughtfulness that I have um, you know I my thoughtfulness is more What’s the story I’m trying to tell. Um. That this is um, we could be each episode could be about twenty different things well that’s just too much for listeners. What are the 2 or 3 that are really important and um.

08:23.47 podcomm Yes, yes.

08:33.80 Danny van Leeuwen Unlike you who don’t don’t doesn’t edit at all I’m a ruthless or I’m try I’m learning to be a more and more ruthless editor. Um, and and I actually really like the editing process. Um, because.

08:41.47 podcomm Editor.

08:51.74 Danny van Leeuwen I’m a person that the way my brain works is when I’m done talking to you I will have forgotten the whole conversation when I finish reading a book I have forgotten the book and so the editing process allows me to open my brain and. Store that information differently and you know appreciate what just happened oh I didn’t know that we talked about that you know it’s like it’s a new discovery. Um, and I do. Every episode I do what I call an article grade transcript which means that my what I know is that at least half of my followers are not listeners. They’re readers and I respect that. And so I started doing transcripts but audio transcripts are not that interesting. Um, you know we talk circular we in fits and starts. It’s not that readable and so I do I edit for readability. Which has the additional bonus for me and my work is I have developed quite the library of material that you know I had the you know but will have a consulting gig and um. You know there’s something that comes up. Well I’ve already done the work you know and I can just pull that and you know whether it’s and the product is you know written auditory or video I have the material and so I’ve already done the work.

10:22.45 podcomm Um.

10:39.22 Danny van Leeuwen Much of the time and that is really helpful.

10:44.90 podcomm I’m really glad to hear you talk about the written side of it because that’s something I’ve started like I’ve done 1 out of hundreds of conversations that I have transcribes transcripts for um and I suspect that I would get better at it the more that I do them but i’m.

10:59.83 Danny van Leeuwen Across.

11:02.16 podcomm I’m thinking that that’s a brilliant way to um, thinking in like how to integrate the learning. So it’s tough when you’re recording your only only half of your mind is in the conversation. So if you listen to it again while editing that’s 1 way to hear it. You know to be exposed to it a second time. But um i’m.

11:08.42 Danny van Leeuwen Um, in it.

11:21.39 podcomm I’m curious about. So if you’ve written a bunch of articles. Um, what are you? What are you thinking when you when you look at that transcript and you’re trying to I’m going to say change it into readable Materials. You’re going to change the voice entirely What are you thinking as you’re looking at that raw transcript are you imagining the reader are you you know do you have like ah that’s not interesting enough or are you trying to make the whole thing be a coherent story like how does that process work.

11:50.16 Danny van Leeuwen Well, um, it’s a good question I well back to? um, actually my process is I Every episode has what I call a pro m.

12:09.90 podcomm Um.

12:10.60 Danny van Leeuwen Which is like a preface and a reflection so which is me introducing the episode and then reflecting on the episode and I start to write the pro m. So I finished the episode and then it’s time for you know, then it sometime goes on because I have quite a quee and and I um I’ll go back and I’ll listen to the raw and then I’ll write I’ll start to write the pro M which then gives me the okay this Is. Or I might start writing it it even before I listen because you know this is why I did it. You know right? and it falls out of my head right? and and it helps me then to Shape. What are what is the story here. What’s my story here like why do I care.

12:50.63 podcomm Yeah, falls out of your head right.

13:06.52 Danny van Leeuwen You know why did I Even do this and I’m a storyteller So I’ve got a million stories and and you know so I I try to? Um, so I try to get a sense of why why?? why? this? why this topic why this person. You know what? what touched a nerve in me and then I do my editing Well then I go through it and then I I try to do like break it up into pieces and give things temporary headings. And then that’s the way for me to be a ruthless editor because then I can take out sections. You know, um and then I go through it and then just put my editor hat on because I’ve been you know I spent 15 years as an editor of a.

13:47.63 podcomm Right.

13:59.82 Danny van Leeuwen Ah, Journal and now I’m ah an editorial team of another journal and so I’m used to editing you know and and then I edit just clean it up, you know and and remove the passive and you know just make it more crisp.

14:16.95 podcomm Marion.

14:19.74 Danny van Leeuwen So that when a person reads it you know they’ll want to keep reading it. Um, so yeah, so that’s like what I do.

14:30.60 podcomm Thank you for sharing that I you know it’s just me being selfish I’m like that’s super helpful to help me. You know find because I’ll I’m like almost everything you’re describing like well that sounds really hard to do because I’ve tried to do it I’m like okay keep just keep doing it I think you know as for my own like you keep doing it.

14:43.87 Danny van Leeuwen Yeah, keep doing it well the other piece of that is that um I am I mean you and I met right in in um, ah um, Tpf two right to oh well, then we met. Okay so I was in 2 with Steve hetherington.

14:54.21 podcomm Um, yeah I don’t if it was tip of 3 or I was only in 3 I was in 3 yeah and were you a band that you were back for 3 like as a remarkable. Oh.

15:03.75 Danny van Leeuwen And um, no no I wasn’t no I only did 1 and and um, but but I and I so I all those that’s been like more than three years and we have you know a weekly call.

15:14.85 podcomm Yes.

15:21.15 Danny van Leeuwen Where we talk all things podcasting and life and then I host a every other week like critique group where we critique each other’s episodes and we do 2 every week

15:37.60 podcomm Nice if you’re meeting. Yeah.

15:39.79 Danny van Leeuwen Are every up every call so every other week and um so those that’s where I learn a lot about the art of you know this medium. Is with this you know small group of people who we’ve been you know working together for a lot of years. Um, because you know I see what they do and and you know there there was Steve’s group I’m the only health care person. Which is great. Um, because you know I get to see you know people and everybody’s got such different styles and so I I steal stuff all the time.

16:27.24 podcomm Right.

16:31.90 Danny van Leeuwen You know and they help me work through you know dilemmas and answering the questions you’re asking because they come up of course.

16:42.35 podcomm Um, yeah I think yeah, the writing um I’m just like so happy to hear anybody ever talk about doing the hard work of of bringing like there’s there’s an experiential part to. Experiencing the people on the podcast when 1 is listening and then there’s that other part which is okay, that’s great. But now you know I want to get from that I want to hang in my head new information and I think the written form is better for that. Even people who say they’re they’re an auditory learner I think they’re. Maybe they just haven’t encountered enough. Well-written material. But I really love and.

17:19.80 Danny van Leeuwen no no no people have different brains I’m convinced um and and the the no people just you know like my son’s an auditory 1 of my sons is an auditory learner and he’s been that way all his life and I mean he reads he reads he’s a he’s a prolific reader. But I really think um yeah I don’t know anyway I think that people people are the it’s amazing. How different people’s brains are and so I feel like you know I wear all these different hats and my audience has many different hats. You know? so I have people who identify as patients I have people follow me identify caregivers or as knowledge management professionals or clinicians or administrators or policy makers and and so you know i. I like to think about all those different brains and you know I have this image of a shelf of bobbleheads above my screen where you know and I see you know there’s mary sue ah there’s um. You know, ah, there’s Susan um, there’s ah um, a Michael you know and I picture them as and so I make sure that I am talking to each of them now you know it. You know, being a um you know rosetta stone of health care. You know what I say on my lead is that you know I know a little bit about a lot of health care and not a lot about that much and um, the um but I try to speak. To each of them and that includes people who are readers who I know are readers I know that Sue is only reading me, she has no idea about the music that’s in the podcast. No clue. Because she’s just reading me and she’ll never listen to my podcast I just know and that’s all but hey she’s been following me for like seven years and um so I honor her.

19:40.55 podcomm Yeah I think there’s deep magic you’ve got there the like I’m very intentional about thinking about what I’m doing in the audio part but I had this feeling that if I was. More intentional about going back through and like finding the pieces like you’re doing that would serve a a written learner. Ah ah, a reader and then that would help me as much as it would help the people who are Readers. So I think you’re absolutely onto something and I’m really glad you shared all that I think that’s very Helpful. Um.

20:07.80 Danny van Leeuwen Um, do.

20:13.43 podcomm I don’t know if they may else out there listening finds it helpful but I find it super helpful. So thank you as much as I hate to say it. That’s twenty minutes um here we go? Yeah, thank you so much for sharing.

20:19.23 Danny van Leeuwen There We go Well that was great. Thanks you you you? um, you’re doing a mitzvah here. So I really appreciate it The all the work that you do so Um, thank you.

20:28.89 podcomm Um, thank you I’m mostly crazy excited to see that people like my greatest giggle fits happen when people grab something I’ve created and then build like do their own thing with it like Wow I didn’t expect them to do that. That’s how I know like Lego blocks.

20:42.10 Danny van Leeuwen Um, guess.

20:47.60 podcomm Threw the legos on the floor or on the table and people grabbed them I’m like yes, okay Lego This is a win so cool. So anyway, thanks for taking the time I know hard just to schedule. Thanks danny.

20:51.40 Danny van Leeuwen Okay, thank you? Yep take care yourself.