00:00.00 podcomm Hello I’m craig konine thank you very much for taking the time I say it all the time I’m sure people are sick of hearing me say it. But I really appreciate I know it is not easy to find a half hour time zones distances days and.
00:01.54 Joe Wehbe And hey I’m Joe webe nice to be here.
00:18.22 podcomm Um, I really was glad that you like we have a common third friend who was like you guys should do a thing and you just like jump right in so there’s definitely an aspect of I always say a generous leap. That 1 has to take to agree to be a guest without a lot of well here’s what we’re going to talk about because there’s no pre-structure to this? Um, and so we do talk a little bit beforehand and I liked the distinction you made when I was asking you about what kinds of podcasts draw you in and you were very clear. No topic. Versus format in what you like to listen to but you’re also very clear that your podcast is a particular format and I’m I’m wondering so you’ve chosen host on mike and and you mentioned you have I also want to dig into why you brought a co-host on but from the host on mike point of view. Um. Did you realize that that was the format that would serve what you wanted to do or did you just start I’m going to say screwing around with podcasting and then found that format sort of like backed into that as the format that works for you to reach your goal.
01:29.90 Joe Wehbe Yeah, it was definitely kind of bottom up if that makes sense I was I knew I wanted to start a podcast just because it was a great format I was going to learn a lot and it was going to be interesting to have conversations around a lot of things I care about and people’s. Perspectives and then I had ah someone recommend that I just do it solo because it’d be easier to start with while I was learninging it and then I think I listened to s seth godin’s podcast and I was like ah this format like you know the host on mic kind of thing this actually can work like most podcasts have guests but this can probably work. And I like the idea of the short form so all of mine are like normally somewhere between five and fifteen minutes and they’re all just um, you know, very very bite-sized and I thought oh that’s actually interesting because that would be a bit different and that would be. Smaller. So. It’s like a lower barrier entry than like listening to a 1 hour episode of of something which I love long form podcasts too. But then also um, it’s great to like meet people at a small at a small step. So yeah, it became clear as I went that that was the best way to do it and then. Um, yeah, the feedback was good.
02:46.15 podcomm Um, yeah, first of all, sometimes people say wow craig you have a voice for podcasting and Joe you have a really good voice for podcasting I was off on a little mental tangent like oh this is going to sound so good when I because in my head I’m loud and you’re cryp and I’m like when I mix this down.
02:57.59 Joe Wehbe Ah, thanks, but.
03:05.64 podcomm This is going to be really nice so I was a little bit geeking out but I was listening and I think you’re you’re like spot on with the short format. Um, and and this show like Meta the show is a twenty minute short format because they found that that works well um.
03:08.60 Joe Wehbe I Yeah yeah.
03:19.94 Joe Wehbe Yeah, exactly.
03:24.29 podcomm But I personally have a terrible time trying to do a host on mike and I don’t know if it’s my mindset or maybe I just need to practice. But I think Solo work is really hard and it sounds to me like you found it really easy. Was it. Is it really easy and I mean for you is it really easy and was it easy from the beginning or please tell me there was a learning curve.
03:48.17 Joe Wehbe It’s tricky like it took me a lot of work. It’d almost be like the way I was doing it doing like a a very very mini ted talk every for every episode and I did it daily but I started because I had.
04:01.91 podcomm Yes.
04:04.65 Joe Wehbe Because I had written a lot because I had written a lot before a lot of like that gave me the content so I wasn’t like trying to figure out what do I talk about I was writing voraciously so I had a lot of the content and then so a lot of the time. It’s me reading it.
04:15.80 podcomm Um.
04:22.70 Joe Wehbe And reading and then reflecting on the piece or I just moved away from that and started so I had to prepare a fair bit beforehand but I just got into the routine of really splitting out that um, that preparation. So I dot point out an episode have the word document a google doc open on a. Second screen or whatever so I could glance at it. But obviously I couldn’t write it write it out script it out because that would be too static and boring wouldn’t be conversational so it was definitely It’s it is a challenge. Definitely a challenge. It was quite draining to do now I’ve got a co-host like I said a friend who basically I think he has a future in podcasting and he just gives me an unpacking question and then I go off and that’s that’s way easier and it’s a bit more It’s a bit easier because um.
05:10.63 podcomm Tell me more about that.
05:15.74 Joe Wehbe Yeah, yeah, it’s a bit easier because um, yeah, just got someone to prompt you someone you do it with makes you a bit more accountable to especially because I make a lot of episodes I try to keep it daily. Um I’ve just relaunched it so daily. But yeah I think it’s a great exercise though for like public speaking training. Be honest because you’re forcing yourself to practice speaking so much.
05:39.32 podcomm Yeah that’s that’s a good point about public speaking I I think you’re um so I mentioned to you before we started recording but just so people know I don’t do any homework I don’t like look up I mean I usually know where the guest is coming from. You know like. Someone-so recommended them or they were in this course or whatever but generally I don’t I don’t like trying to listen to shows or or trying any background because for me, my personal passion is around conversation. Um, but like literally creating conversation in the world to spread understanding and compassion is literally my personal mission so I enjoy just. Diving into the conversational pool but I also have this itch to unpack some of my ideas around conversation and and I don’t I’m like I don’t want to teach I don’t want to like try and make a course but all of a sudden I’m thinking. Yeah maybe I should just. Don’t need another project but maybe I should take the time to unpack my thoughts in a podcast about the about the material and um as I was when you started talking about reading a piece and then reflecting on the piece. My first thought is if I write something I know what happens when I try and read it. It’s the wrong voice you know like the writing voice is the wrong voice and I’m wondering about how much how I’m wondering about the effort it takes to reflect like if you read it. That’s like a wonderful way to refresh it in your memory and you have it in front of you.
06:53.87 Joe Wehbe Okay, the.
07:11.83 podcomm And now that people have heard it that are listening Um, but how much effort does it does it take to to like in real time. Grab your thoughts that are reflection grab your thoughts out of some notes that you made in advance and try and like bring that together into coherent you know sentences like is that. Something that you gathered learned to do pretty easily or is that that’s always yeah when you’re done. You’re tired and you’re sweating or like how does that really work.
07:36.91 Joe Wehbe It was almost like it was doing it in the podcast was almost like the second draft or the second version of something I’d written because I was able to actually look at it and go ah I know an even better way of maybe trying to explain that. And then weaving more stories or anecdotes in because it’s all like philosophical ideas or ideas about learning and ability and unpacking that so it’s sometimes it’s a lot of stuff that’s normally very intangible to people and so I like the challenge of how do I try and make this like. Still clear so that there’s no doubt about this concept and it didn’t really take me that long. It was very interesting to do. It was often. It was just a nice remembering like oh this is actually this is actually decent stuff like I’ve forgotten a lot of the things i’ve. You write so much you kind of forget. What’s there. So it’s good to actually give yourself the reminder though I think to your point depending on the purpose you could draw that out more but I just think that I think of it also as building on top of. Like the writing was the foundation then things can be built on your ideas like I know that you’ve obviously built this podcast where you have ah a community that you run to which is actually similar similar to me I run a online community as well different theme but you know a lot of those things built out of. Part of me sorry for the microphone knock there your ideas and what you think and and how you deconstruct that can be used to build things so I always think of it as as almost like building on top of making more use of that asset which is your ideas. Yeah. But writing is for me a great way to first get them out to be honest, rather than podcasting but podcasting is the format that is a bit more popular for the people I’ve engaged with yeah.
09:40.60 podcomm How much time. Do you spend? um some time wondering about I’m like very processes oriented as the way I think and I’m wondering you mentioned that you had written a bunch. You know that you that you had a significant body of work that you had written and and you began working. Through it to to read it or reflect on it and I’m I’m wondering like are you continuing to write because now we’re talking about how did you use what you’ve written in the podcast but are you finding that The podcast is helping you continue to write new stuff or are you refining the older pieces and. Making them better or like how is the process carrying forward from podcasting.
10:22.59 Joe Wehbe Um, yeah, they’ve kind of got their own. They’ve segueed in their own own directions a little bit um writing is like I have the blog and I’ve done 1 book so far but the blog is kind of like the breeding ground for any new ideas. Whenever I have a random thought I just like open up my I use notion a lot now and I just open it up and it’s a heading and then there’s there’s hundreds and hundreds of those just unfinished dumped ideas and then some of them make them through to the blog. But it’s just it’s that’s every week it’s just always um, doing that and then getting something that’s spec and quality to actually publish or if that idea doesn’t deserve to be out compared to like all the other things I’ve thought about then it doesn’t make it through sorry guys, you don’t make the cut and then up know the podcasting.
11:12.86 podcomm Um.
11:16.42 Joe Wehbe Um, because the writing I’ve started writing about more topics. So The podcasting’s just been more specifically now on like around education and learning and for that I I’ve just kind of like a separate prep which is everything I’ve learned so far from reading writing and experience about education and learning. Could be better. The things most people don’t realize etc that I’ve just prepared those as little prompts from my cohost loke and I had actually just discussed in the podcast. It’s just getting it from there and recalibrating it into a. Ah, format that will make that prompt that conversation on the podcast and yeah, it’s very… It’s not too hard because I’ve thought about all those things. Um I think that the writing is ah so yeah, they have this wonderful flow blended relationship. Rather than like a strict process around this blog than this podcast. Um, but yeah, it’s easier to talk about when I’ve thought about it before but writing is definitely a great way to stretch and exercise thinking The best way I’ve found for me.
12:24.30 podcomm Yeah, that sounds brilliant. Yes, you’re making me think oh I need to write more. Do you find that? Um, yeah, do you find that your um.
12:34.45 Joe Wehbe That’s normally what happens.
12:41.91 podcomm Let me ask Ah, let me ask a more specific question before I you know ramble like an idiot. Do you have? um your own reflective processes for me, you strike me as ah, a self-reflective self-aware person. Um, but what do your practices look like for your own reflection like do you. Do take time every day to to write just for yourself or is what you’re doing with your public writing in your podcast. How you do your reflection like what what is some of the things that you do for your own personal self-care kind of thing.
13:11.58 Joe Wehbe It is mainly the latter I used to do journaling a little bit I tried meditation for a very small window. Both of those things were great but I found that I was already doing it through yeah writing writing blog pieces I just try and do writing. Ah, once a day in the morning normally just to yeah, get into flow to concentration for work and that is the main reflection I also I think conversation is my other big 1 proper deep conversation with people. Which I’m fortunate to have a lot of in my life because that normally gives me different thinking loops than my own to cause ah a reflection or a new perspective. A big fan of Retreats. Do we haven’t run many lately but we ran one last year that was great fun before we launched our Book. So. I’m actually keen to in next year run more retreats again to to make it bit of a quarter seasonal thing.
14:17.18 podcomm Give me the name of the book.
14:20.40 Joe Wehbe Ah, the book. Yeah eighteen and lost so were we We had just 8 everyday people write their stories about life after high school education focused kind of work so it was a. Ah, fun project to show people that they could be writers and that they have a story that’s valuable to other people, especially younger people. So yeah, all all about I Guess creativity and showing people what they’re capable of that They don’t really imagine and why you have to kind of. Open random doors as I say from time to time you just so know a lot of these people was very random request to come write a book. They’re like oh cool but you know who knows what this really is and what what will it be and we’re like yeah we’re just going to do it. You know like why don’t we do these things. You know people would do these things if we made it obvious to them if we set it up a lot of people don’t take their initiative and um that way doing it as a group made it easier to write the book in a short period of time rather than years and years on your own which is way harder so all around like. Really positive experience and it was a great way for me to break in. You know, writing and self-publishing and to learn the process which I really appreciated? yeah.
15:40.84 podcomm Um, I’m wondering about if you get any feedback or so podcasting is very much 1 way, right? Like if you know you’re just public speaking only there’s nobody in the audience that you can see they can’t even see they’re walking out of the room or tuning in or tuning out and i’m. Wondering if you have any, um, either stories or or just you know so kind of summarizing anecdotes about have you gotten feedback from people who listen are you you know are people like like you have a Facebook group and people are engaging there I’m just wondering what your experience has been in terms of the. Flow from the other direction back to you in response to the podcast if any.
16:23.11 Joe Wehbe Yeah, kind of because so many of my friends listen to it or friends Collaborators. They are normally the ones that give me feedback so normally unsolicited to I haven’t really had to to ask. And I used to ask more mainly in the early stages of it. But then I just got into a really locked in format and I was just spitting it out was real production Line. So I was just yeah, just just do it but that has been really good. Some of the things were around. Um. Were some very very small technical things at the start like very cosmetic like oh you I think you bump in the microphone a bit and things like that. But then there were also things like I could you speak more about yourself maybe have a reflection a reflection question for the listener. And they go about their day ah things like that and those are like oh yeah, that’s that’s great like it’s so such a fun craft to try and refine and hone and that that a bit and been the main thing so far but it is something that a lot of podcasters I talk to struggle with. Um, they encourage people to reach out to them and if you think because the feedback can be tricky to get such a 1 way medium, but it’s part of the part of the evolving space I think it’s very much an evolving space isn’t it.
17:51.88 podcomm Yeah, part of the experience. Um, says so many things I pause because I’m like oh there’s so many things to ask and the clock is ticking. Um, oh here’s a lazy question. What’s something I should have asked you that I didn’t.
18:14.33 Joe Wehbe Ah, what’s something you should have asked me that you didn’t um yeah I know it’s ah tricky you could have asked me um I think maybe we’re at link where say podcasting links to the rest of my.
18:17.65 podcomm Oh.
18:34.22 Joe Wehbe Life and work maybe because I always find it interesting that a lot of people look at podcasting as this separate. Ah this other project I’m taking on for me. It’s been very well integrated and like everything I care about everything I Do you know doing it forces me to reflect. And think more about like I said things I’ve already dabbled in or tossed up as an idea but because there’s time dedicated to it for most other people obviously like the conversations bring in meeting new people developing Network relationships opening doors. Me though, it’s kind of I Really think that it’s been an incredible way to yeah, develop develop things out. It creates like a real resource library to with my format. So when people ask me? Oh I Need you know I’m having this problem a lot of the time I Just go yep into the. Log or the podcast kind of resource library and I pick out the relevant episode or or piece and just becomes a resource. It has so many. It’s incredible Asset. It’s such a diverse asset can be used in so many ways. So It’s been… It’s a hell of a thing to do really.
19:33.74 podcomm Yeah.
19:51.33 podcomm Um, nice, well. Ah so as I as much as I always hate to say it every time. Um I think that’s a great place to stop I think that’s a really good question that I should have asked yes and thank you for asking and answering it Joe it’s a distinct pleasure to meet you.
20:04.98 Joe Wehbe For.
20:11.21 podcomm Have a little single serving size conversation and I hope we get chance to talk again in the future. Thanks for taking the time.
20:10.97 Joe Wehbe Black eyes.
20:19.93 Joe Wehbe Likewise Craig Thank you very much.