Transcript for "Play - with Brandi Heather"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m craig konine hi brandy thanks for taking this time out of your schedule to join me today I think that so I’m I’m torn you I’m going to say your your play space is around play.

00:01.40
Brandi Heather
Hello I’m Brandi heather.

00:16.89
Brandi Heather
Get into this.

00:18.63
podcomm
Which is kind of like my play space like not related to podcasting I’m also into movement and and doing those concentration things I’m torn but I think I’m going to start. Let’s start pretending that we’re going to talk about podcasting. So Let’s let’s start with. I Know that your your journey was you started your podcast. You did your podcast and then I know that you’ve written a book and I’m curious about was the the podcast um from what I understand we were talking before your your podcast helped you I’m going to say focus what you were passionate about. And then made it clear and I’m wondering how much of what you what you did like the work that you had to do to make a podcast how much of what you did enabled you to finally like oh now I can do the book.

01:04.92
Brandi Heather
It’s so true because when I dove into podcasting it was. It was absolutely brand new to me. So even the audio developing the audio and doing all those things was really super new to me so it was ah it was a vulnerable thing to do and.

01:18.50
podcomm
Um.

01:21.41
Brandi Heather
Through that journey through being able to find my voice and also have people on the other side who said that voice is important. Um that is something we want to listen to that that was that was really key and and ability to have that accountability. To something to a schedule to people that was that was really key and it it allowed me to start outlining the process for the Book. So I kind of found my voice in podcasting. And then turned that voice into a book.

01:56.34
podcomm
Um I That’s that strikes me as very clever, not clever like haha clever clever like that’s a wise way to do that you you you came back at least once maybe twice as um and the.

02:01.97
Brandi Heather
Um.

02:12.94
podcomm
We always all of us we double clutch because for a while it was called 1 thing and then it was called something else so you came back as an assistant, a remarkable an allstar to help the coaches. Did you do that 1 thread you do that twice or think you did that at least twice 3 times so tell me about the experience like I guess that’s ah, a much like a lot of.

02:21.72
Brandi Heather
I should did that 3 times. Yeah I did that 3 times.

02:32.10
podcomm
A lot of people are air quoting are podcasters but to have a chance to kind of come back as someone who’s and the role isn’t because I do it too. The role isn’t to like show up and like I have the answer. The role is to just be like infectiously. Excited and passionate and like well here’s what I did and it blew up my face. Don’t do that you know like what what’s your experience when you went back the the first time and the second time and the time I guess you’ve gone back over and over what’s that experience been like sort of as you know the I know ah, ah, I’m not a big fan of allstars I’m not a big fan of remarkable.

03:01.64
Brandi Heather
It? yeah yeah I think I think 1 of the keys and probably part of being asked back was was the ability to really be able to tell people or show people and be that informed voice.

03:05.61
podcomm
But whatever we want to call ourselves.

03:20.64
Brandi Heather
That could say actually what you’re discovering is your play so when you find your voice when you write that first thing you have your first interview. Um, do you feel like you’re in play and and I was able to to help new podcasters recognize that. Part of why why they do what they do is because it is their play. It is the thing that ignites them. It makes them feel joyful or powerful or you know, creative and intentional and so I think I think that voice was really important to me. Um. And just the ability to empathize with the journey the ability to say oh my goodness I did that 16 times right? I did that I stayed there I went down that rabbit hole. That’s you know it was. It’s it’s just I think on the other side because I received that right? So those kind of actions are.

04:03.73
podcomm
Ah.

04:14.78
podcomm
Um, yes.

04:17.80
Brandi Heather
Super Secular. So um, when you receive it. You know you actually start to know what other people want so that that gave me this great belonging and it made me feel. You know, inspired and connected and so the ability to do that for someone else. Was awesome for me. Um, the ability to to bring people back to what their fundamental change. They want to make and and who they are that was you know it was amazing to watch other podcasters create new things and. Create new spaces for conversation.

04:52.85
podcomm
Yeah, there’s ah, um, and if people have taken really any good Course. There’s an energy that you experience being a student but there’s I mean it’s pied the same energy but there’s a different feeling to the energy when you sometimes I feel like I’m a hall monitor like I normally have a job. And like please don’t spray pan on the walls. You know like just don’t put the gove in that water fountain like but other than that, there’s you’re just kind of standing around like looking for problems like oh the you know the the trash cans on fire I got it. You know like and yeah, but there’s an energy level that it’s just downright fun to.

05:11.62
Brandi Heather
Ah, yeah, yeah I knew how to do that.

05:24.91
podcomm
Like if there’s four hundred people running around in the hallway having a grand time. You just can’t help but be smiling I mean it’s nice to duck in the staff lounge and have a donut and come back out. You know, like there are some perks. Um, but it’s just super fun to get a chance to go back to the energy because you know if you go and take the course It’s not the same like it’s you know it’s only the there’s only 1 first experience. So I think returning for that. Um, you you get as much out of it at least I do I get as much out of it as I was able to put back into it so I’m I’m totally with you on that. It’s so it’s a wonderful experience like the idea of going back and.

05:43.26
Brandi Heather
Yeah.

05:59.45
podcomm
Helping um well before we were recording. We were talking about you were talking about your book. Give me the title of the book.

06:05.53
Brandi Heather
The book is called return to play rebuilding resilience risk and reconnection and it is available on amazon and at indigo books and on my website at return to play. Two Thousand Twenty one dot com

06:26.57
podcomm
Which I bring up because I I try to write a book. It’s really hard. So anytime I see somebody with a book that exists and is done I’m just like mad props. That’s awesome and when we were talking about your book before we were recording I said woo I Wonder Brandy How much what.

06:30.86
Brandi Heather
Um, it’s super hard.

06:46.57
podcomm
Gill and and um and I was thinking at the time It’s probably meta skills like how to avoid rabbit holes or how to know how far to go down the rabbit hole. But what skills did you? do you think you were able to take away from like learning to podcast that helped you like learn to book like.

07:02.35
Brandi Heather
Oh it yeah it I think 1 of the keys for me was that the process through akimbo was so it was so well outlined and and not outlined from just like yeah do this do this? do this do this really.

07:03.40
podcomm
Better like so.

07:21.15
Brandi Heather
Outlined from both ah a cognitive space and ah and an emotional space. So um and that allowed me to then clearly outline kind of my thoughts for for the book because I took a lot of what I had said in my podcast and it it.

07:23.68
podcomm
Me.

07:39.44
Brandi Heather
Came through in the book. Obviously in fact, sometimes directly and I I think 1 of the things that we find is that when we start to Podcast. We start to hear our own thoughts reflected in others. We start to hear people say oh my goodness I you know. Not only do I like that. But that really resonates with me and so it allowed me to give the book a really clear outline and I knew from the podcasting side that the book had to be telling his story as well as dealing with the science and that combination The. The science of play and the story of play and inclusion and diversity all of those things mix together with actual real you know people and and my experiences was really key to writing the book and I I found that in podcasting.

08:32.38
podcomm
Ah so many I Always like so many things I want to say so many things I want to ask? what do you think was um, what was the easiest thing about podcasting and the easiest thing about writing the book.

08:34.88
Brandi Heather
Um.

08:49.45
Brandi Heather
Yeah, the storytelling was the easy part for me so telling you know my experiences and my stories what I had seen from all the pass I have taken the storytelling was easy.

08:50.61
podcomm
Because I’m curious to see if there are parallels there.

09:08.85
Brandi Heather
Um, the the thing that was harder was to be able to integrate the science with the stories and even though again I’ve been in the world of diversity and inclusion and disability inclusion and play my whole career. So and as an academic right? Um I I sat in Academia for a long time and teaching it postsecondary So I had all that research it was the ability to put it into a context where anybody wanted to read it. Um, and so podcasting. The easy part was.

09:40.63
podcomm
And.

09:47.10
Brandi Heather
Was telling the stories. The harder part was integrating the science so that the people that are really driven by the facts and the science got what they needed and that combination started out in my podcasting and. It obviously was a part of my background in teaching but the ability to put it into a book where people want to turn the page all the time and again, that’s a rabbit hole all in itself right? because you start your podcasting journey and you’re like nobody is going to listen. Ah so I felt you know those those parallels sit with the book and.

10:12.80
podcomm
Um, if you like um. Um, yeah, the first first chapter that I wrote 12 times. Um the most surprising thing about writing a book like you know, um I know that you hired a book coach I want to know more about that and like what what are some things about.

10:23.34
Brandi Heather
A cast. Yeah, absolutely.

10:41.20
podcomm
Um, and partly this entire project is just therapy for Craig I’m like well if I ever wanted to write a book I should ask people who’ve done it lots of questions about book writing so what are some things that are like well okay, if you’re going to do it here’s a pro tip.

10:51.47
Brandi Heather
Well, here’s my pro tip if you’re going to do it No different than any other project in your life like really big initiative in your life find someone who’s done it before so I actually Hired. Um, Ryan fahe who was a friend of mine and he runs fahi consulting and he was my book coach so he was there when I would get in those rabbit holes and I would get in those experiences and he’d be able to say Actually this is what’s happening for you right Now. Let me put some. You know, let me put some slides on your mess. Um, because yeah I again it it is 1 of those experiences where I think the most surprising thing for me with the book was when I started to ask for interviews people got back to me I think.

11:41.32
podcomm
Um.

11:43.36
Brandi Heather
Know that sounds surprising but I sent an email to daniel pink and he got back to me I sent an email to Seth godin and he got back to me like people that was the most surprising thing for me was to put it out into the universe and be like I’m pretty sure this won’t happen. But. And then to have the universe say oh actually there’s people that really want to know and want to tell their story about how play affects how they work and live and connect and and you know run their lives so that was really cool. That was the biggest surprise for me.

12:20.44
podcomm
Um, I I mentioned I only I have 1 question in 38 parts 1 of the things that I mentioned at the beginning was like play and movement is kind of like also my crack and and I was like all right? What’s because I think I have an answer for this. But what’s something that. Most people get wrong when we say play is important or you or you need to make time to play or or let’s go play like what? what is it about and let’s pigeonal like standard Western Society. What is it about us that we’re doing wrong that we don’t understand about play.

12:56.44
Brandi Heather
Well for a lot of people play is a four letter word. It is again. We our lives are so focused on process and outcomes and what’s the next thing and productivity and performance.

13:00.62
podcomm
Um.

13:16.24
Brandi Heather
That we forget that and so sometimes I have to like skirt around it and call it something else. So that people aren’t what I call putting up this guard of of play is silliness like play is for children play is silliness. It’s unproductive. Um, it has no place in work. So.

13:28.11
podcomm
Friend.

13:36.00
Brandi Heather
I think sometimes that that first word that word play when I say do you play at work people are like absolutely not because they’re like if my boss caught me playing I would be in trouble but I think this is where we get caught because we’re like okay in order to play in our work. We turn off work.

13:55.12
podcomm
3

13:55.30
Brandi Heather
And then we throw a ball around and then we go back to work but actually what I’m talking about is play integrated in everything you do So when you’re doing something at work that you are so absorbed by that you absolutely love about your work and you kind of lose track of time in that space. That’s the play I’m talking about I’m not talking about thrown balls around your office or adding a pingpong table because though those things don’t matter unless it’s actually play for you. So I think we’re often trying to add something tangible like look we bought a foodsball table.

14:30.41
podcomm
Right.

14:31.45
Brandi Heather
Um, right? And that’s actually that’s not the purpose of it. The purpose is to find something in your day that actually makes you want to continue that it motivates you to do the next thing like and if that’s the water cooler talk or it’s you know it’s actually part of your job like what. What an incredible Thing. Let’s be mindful of that. That’s all I’m Asking. So.

14:51.40
podcomm
Yeah I I think the idea of I’m bad with names I Want to say James Kirsk with the finite and infinite games who wrote that Simon sinnic and there’s there’s a whole book. Um.

15:03.10
Brandi Heather
Um, oh Simon Sinek yeah who.

15:10.69
podcomm
Where they’re talking about the difference between finite and infinite games if people don’t know what that means you have to go look it up but I think for me when I brought play into like physical activity and physical movement. It turned like okay I got to go do the thing nineteen times and then but it turned it into like this. Yeah, but this is just fun and I’ll just. Like I’m doing the thing because I want to keep doing the thing like the idea of oh this game’s too easy. Kids make it harder. They like if the game is going to end. They they add a wrinkle Oh wait. Well we move the goal post or whatever and I think that might be I think that’s a big part of the magic when I’m able to bring play into what.

15:36.48
Brandi Heather
Um.

15:48.41
podcomm
Would normally be considered a work task is like well oh now I want to keep going like well this is I’m done what I’ve reached you know like I was supposed to accomplish this and I finished it and I think that’s a magic um a magical thing if you can like turn it it like oh this becomes play instead of a slog or a sled pull.

15:57.95
Brandi Heather
Timeless right? It’s timeless.

16:04.47
Brandi Heather
And I think the first step is actually recognizing when it’s there not creating when it’s there like I often say five five minutes in your day to to do something playful but you actually if you spend five minutes a day just being mindful of of times in which you felt that. And it doesn’t have to be at work at all like it. It can be outside work. It can be wherever but if we’re a little more mindful of times in which we feel that joy that timelessness you know motivation connected you know and exercise and fitness is is you know. My background is kinesiology and sports studies. So the ability to make exercise. Not be. You know that title. Um, because exercise is no different than play right? So someone says you should exercise people have like 3 hundred visions of what that looks like.

16:55.12
podcomm
Um, iron man. Um.

16:57.23
Brandi Heather
And right and actually they don’t they have about 3 visions long distance Marathon runner wait room with people who are absolutely you know buff and ripped and you know so they have very distinct ideas of that when you say actually.

17:05.82
podcomm
Yeah, ripped.

17:15.90
Brandi Heather
It means it can mean whatever you want it to mean so you don’t love going to a fitness class but you think you should go to a fitness class. That’s not play you love dancing and you’re a little bit worried about how you’re going to look but when you get in there. You’re like oh my goodness this is awesome I feel wonderful. Don’t want it to end that’s your play and I think we we go with this kind of standard and sturdy definition of a lot of things exercises but 1 where we’re like oh I have an idea what that is and and play is 1 of those things. Most people have. This kind of silliness of of childhood which don’t get me wrong. Silliness is is amazing, but ah, but I think we just need to wrap our heads differently right? We have so many fixed ideas right? it’s it’s growth Mindset 1 a 1.

18:08.80
podcomm
Me.

18:15.48
podcomm
I’m just watching the clock tickling. Oh yeah, um, what about? um, do you think you’re do you think you’re hooked on podcasting for life like as a create as a creator right.

18:16.70
Brandi Heather
Um.

18:23.98
Brandi Heather
Yeah I think yeah as a creator for sure and actually like we were talking before I Really I Love being a guest. Um, so which is so funny. Um.

18:37.41
podcomm
I.

18:42.63
Brandi Heather
So I often don’t see myself in the like even my podcast was just host on Mike just me talking and the idea of interviewing someone else and asking them the questions that that doesn’t feel playful for me but sitting doing this interview and you know.

18:58.60
podcomm
Um, no.

19:01.48
Brandi Heather
In twenty minutes we’re going to say oh my good where did that all go and that’s my play and so I love talking with people and so podcasting for me is just another way that I can talk to people and and to communicate the importance of of really. Taking care of yourself and being able to you know find the things that give you joy and and if you can’t find them then being able to say oh I do need to take five minutes today great

19:32.67
podcomm
Um, row.

19:35.93
Brandi Heather
If you can’t remember the last time you did something that you lost track of time and it was you got to choose it. You know you you knew when it was going to stop and start and you were totally in control of the decision making and that if you haven’t had that moment in in an you know in the last

19:51.16
podcomm
I Don’t know.

19:54.81
Brandi Heather
You You have to go back to your childhood and you know, ah then then we need to be more intentional about that as adults for sure and we need to we need to also make sure that we’re giving that to our kids because we’re actually pushing them to be more and more. Academic and studied and all of those things younger and younger so we were starting to take away those spaces and I think we need to be really cognizant of the effects of that for a lifetime. So.

20:25.90
podcomm
Um, as much as I’d like to keep playing. Um I think that’s a terrific place to stop. Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy day. Thank you brandy.

20:34.54
Brandi Heather
That’s awesome Of course of course take care.