Transcript for "Platform - with Melissa Way"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig welcome I’m super excited to get to talk about. We discuss these things a little beforehand to get to talk about platform in the sense of giving people a platform and I were just going to.

00:00.00
Melissa
Hello I’m Greg and I’m Melissa way.

00:17.91
Melissa
We’re just gonna jump in there and talk about the.

00:18.44
podcomm
Jump in there and talk about the work that you do I mean you you do a lot of things mad props but the work that you do in the context of podcasting is literally to be an advocate for one of my other projects for Movers Mindset to be an advocate for the guests.

00:23.60
Melissa
Yeah, thanks, What did you do in podcasting.

00:35.38
podcomm
Ah, so I’m just going to serve it at you. What are your thoughts on like selecting guests things you’ve seen us do right done wrong and how does that play into your ideas on platform about platform.

00:40.69
Melissa
Things you seem must be right is that plain you right. Yeah, well I mean as you know I’ve done lots of thinking about who we talk to and why we talk to people and what we want to talk about um but one of the things I think over the years that I’ve kind of settled on is I like to think about mover’s mindset. As a platform so we’re giving someone a platform we’re giving someone a signal boost. Um, so for me, one of the main things I’m looking at is do I think what they’re what we’re boosting the platform we’re giving them is a worthwhile platform does it align with our kind of ethos. Um, for example, like. We’re a podcast that talks about movement but I’m not necessarily going out and trying to find the most popular fitness influencer on Instagram or whatever. Um, we don’t really get into like diet culture and that kind of thing because that’s not something that we want to give a platform to um.

01:29.40
podcomm
Right.

01:43.41
Melissa
So being kind of intentional about why you’re talking to people and considering the fact that this is a platform that they’re going to be able to say whatever they’d like once once you have the microphone in front of them like you can’t actually control what they’re going to say so you want to know kind of well you you can.

01:58.10
podcomm
Um, yeah, you can You can always add it but I was.

02:02.97
Melissa
And edit but you want to kind of know in advance like all right? This is something that we think is going to be solid content.

02:09.12
podcomm
I was talking to a previous guest on here. Um about the responsibility and she made an excellent point about there’s ah a serious dichotomy of power. So.

02:16.31
Melissa
Responsibility I Made an excellent point about there’s a.

02:22.30
Melissa
Tower. So yeah I think the podcast.

02:23.90
podcomm
Yeah, in the podcast work that I do music trying to keep myself out of the picture I like this podcast because I’m not trying to keep myself out of the picture. Um, but even Beyond Normally the guest gets to do all the talking I get to do all the editing I get to decide what questions I’m steering unless you really get antagonistic in which case I can just press stop.

02:29.77
Melissa
Um, but even beyond.

02:37.10
Melissa
I get to decide what questions right on this really get antagon.

02:42.72
podcomm
Have all the power during the interview I have all the power afterwards for editing and I think your point about platform about it being an amplifier for that person’s viewpoint that that comes from the fact that we have all this power like because we do all the hard work because we put all the publishing That’s what gives us this.

02:58.75
Melissa
Because we do all the hard work because we put all the that’s what gives us this.

03:02.62
podcomm
Amplification Factor um was that I’m going to say power of the platform was that obvious when you like like how long how many how many did it take before you went oh shoot with great power comes great responsibility.

03:05.21
Melissa
Power of the platform is that obviously but like how long I’m many go take oh to our? um, that’s an interesting question I I was gonna say. Don’t know that I have a specific one but I think I really started thinking about it. Um, because I came on the team after it had already been going for a while but maybe about like 10 or so episodes after I started. Um, we talked to someone who kind of was under the radar and I feel like that was my first time really kind of consciously considering that and thinking oh not only is it a platform but we have the ability to boost people who. Potentially no, one’s ever heard of who have really insightful and useful things to say so that’s kind of like the opposite side of like the coin we have the responsibility to make sure that what we’re boosting is good but also I feel. There’s a responsibility to seek out people who don’t have so much of a platform and who have. Good things to say and give them a space to say it and get that out in the world.

04:19.89
podcomm
You mentioned the one that you’re imagining is maybe the first time that you did it consciously. Do you mean consciously in advance decided I know about this person I’m going to go seek them out or do you mean consciously like as you’re watching the interview unfold it occurred to you. You know what.

04:34.69
Melissa
Watching the interview and fold it occurres. You know what? like very touch conscious.

04:37.24
podcomm
Like are you talking consciously before the recording or consciously during or even or even after I guess.

04:41.20
Melissa
I Think it was going through the whole process I don’t know that it was a decision I made in advance. Um, there’s There’s a fine line as guest advocate as you know between being able to really intentionally set stuff up in advance and staying open just to.

04:56.57
podcomm
Yeah, that’s a good point right.

04:59.45
Melissa
Whatever happens because we’ve done some where we decided a half an hour before oh we have the opportunity all right? What do we need to do in order to make it happen right? Um, and.

05:08.54
podcomm
I Could possibly go right right.

05:14.18
Melissa
I Don’t think that’s always necessarily the best way to do it. We’ve definitely done better with preparation. But I do think it’s kind of important to take advantage of opportunity when it arises So this kind of started out as just an opportunity and then going through the process I was like oh yeah, this is like this is important. To give people particularly because the person that we were talking to um, not only wasn’t well-known but wasn’t the quote unquote main demographic of the movement practice that we were Discussing. Um so to kind of be able to shine a light.

05:45.23
podcomm
Um.

05:52.35
Melissa
And give her a space to talk about her experience and her place within that sport I thought was an important thing and that was listening to the interview being there going through all the editing process after it was kind of like ah I’ve don’t want to say a light bulb moment but it was like a slow process of dawning.

06:10.60
podcomm
Um, I think there’s a different oh cra. There’s obviously a difference between the different types of podcasts. One could be creating like if you’re just doing solo host on Mike um.

06:11.98
Melissa
It was a dimmer switch if you will.

06:24.89
podcomm
Unless you’re quoting other people. You’re not actually giving anybody else a voice which is fine. You can create things for yourself, but a lot of people that I know a lot of podcasters wind up talking to other people and I I really feel like the vast majority of them.

06:26.43
Melissa
Not actually giving anybody else support. You can create yourself.

06:41.82
podcomm
Have an idea of what they want to create. So maybe they’re on. Ah um, an exploratory journey of Discovery like I want to figure out how influencers influence influence it like no they have a thing they’re going after and they’re seeking out information and I think that’s the majority of the podcasters that I know that now.

06:51.35
Melissa
Have a thing you’re going after seeking out information and I think that’s the majority of the.

07:01.26
podcomm
There are several really big kids in the podcast space and other people. Um, you know at various levels who are just you know doing I’m I’m not trying to say I’m awesome. But like I’m generally just going I don’t know let’s go ask them like I’m purposely not trying to find data to back up some giant theory that I’m.

07:13.30
Melissa
I’m generally just going I don’t know let’s go after like I’m trying to find the backup.

07:20.53
podcomm
Chasing down and I’m I’m wondering since you’ve been involved in like my my internal title is you know was delusionary for a while you’ve been involved in like my delusional I don’t know let’s just talk to people and I’m wondering if. You imagine it would be easier if you had like a specific goal or you know, maybe it’s 4 goals but like if somebody said to you all right? I want to figure out how to,? um, you know heal the political divide in our country between left and right sides of the aisle.

07:48.91
Melissa
You know heal the political divide in our country between left and right Classes. You think that would make it easier harder because now you’ve got a specific.

07:53.92
podcomm
Do you think that would make it easier or harder because now you’ve got a specific thing. You’re supposed to accomplish and then you’re also going to factor in the idea of the platform. The power of the platform.

08:01.29
Melissa
But I think that’s it’s interesting because in some ways I don’t know that it would necessarily make it easier. Um I think it would make it give you some obvious choices of who to talk to but some of the coolest. Kind of conversations that have come out of this project have been from less obvious sources. Um, so definitely finding a balance of that it it gives you starting places I guess is what I want to say um, but I don’t necessarily think it makes it easier, especially when. Like maybe it’s easier to choose who you want to talk to but when you have that one particular topic and um, this is just my perspective because in my role as the guest advocate I Not only kind of do the prep work. But I’m also there for the Interview. So I’ve kind of gotten to experience that and I Think. At least from where I’m Sitting. It would be trickier as an interviewer like your job would be harder if it was a specific topic because then that becomes less of a conversation and more of an interview interview right? where you’re going kind of back and Forth. So I Think. It might make it more obvious or easier to select people. But overall I think it would make the product the the actual conversation harder to have it would make it less able to be organic and that’s one of the things I enjoy about the way that Mover’s mindset does things is… There’s not an agenda so it’s kind of like we’re coming in and trying to seek out the person that we’re talking to.

09:39.28
podcomm
And that’s kind of ah’s so it’s a thing like people. Well ah first of all because I whenever possible interview in person. It’s a little different I mean even people who have been on podcasts. It’s like these people are coming to my house or you know the cafe or wherever we’re meeting and they’re going to show up with gear and.

09:44.46
Melissa
Football crystal because I an ever possible interview. Different. Oh yes, my house.

09:57.19
podcomm
People who’ve been on podcasts. There are a lot of people who’ve been on podcasts in the last year they’re like they’ve never been in front of a mic and it’s a different experience so there’s this whole like when we actually show up and I don’t mean that like we do it better but just like we show up and that’s a whole nother level of experience and that’s like on top of most people are used to.

10:10.14
Melissa
Well and that’s home of the level and that’s like on top of.

10:16.65
podcomm
Person conducting the podcast the host the interviewer they do have an agenda and and maybe it’s completely benevolent but they have an agenda so they just assume oh my God These people are really on it. They must really have an agenda and it’s it’s taken a while to learn how to.

10:22.75
Melissa
With benevolence but they have an agenda right? So Oh my god. Really honest, they must really have an agenda take it.

10:32.96
podcomm
Like talk them out of that like no I Really don’t have an agenda. In fact I’m hoping you have something to talk about because I have no clue. So I think that’s an interesting point you make there about you know, agenda factoring into how easy it would be.

10:43.94
Melissa
Right? And I think that that also kind of changes the idea of platform too because the platform that we’re offering is whatever you want to make it as opposed to when you come in with an agenda. It’s like I’m giving you a platform but it’s for this specific idea.

11:00.33
podcomm
Right for today’s point here’s your platform.

11:02.81
Melissa
Um, yes, so that does kind of change. Um, yes, we have a lot of power with in terms of offering the platform. But once you have that platform that gives a guest a lot of power as Well. Um to just. Express Whatever they like So when you limit it by having an agenda that changes that power balance again.

11:22.45
podcomm
Um, I’m torn between I was going to say 2 things but I’m gonna say 3 things 1 What do you want to talk about? Will you item number number 1 item number 2 would be I’ve talked to a lot of people in like micro settings about how.

11:28.18
Melissa
1 Okay, let’s talk about the item number 1 i.

11:40.29
podcomm
You and I specifically for mover’s mindset about how we find the next guests and how the superpower is to ask the person you just interviewed. Um, so ah option door number one is what do you want to talk about door number 2 is talking about the magic of asking guests and how you how we specifically ask the guests. Um.

11:46.50
Melissa
So option.

11:55.21
Melissa
Guess and how we and and.

11:58.86
podcomm
And door numberm three if I can manage to hold all 3 trains of thought dornam 3 was going to be um, askrow at 2 doors. What do you want to talk about or that because I I like to talk about that question but I’m sure we’ll get to it.

12:08.96
Melissa
What I want to kind of kind of talk about that. We haven’t gotten to yet kind of works with um door number twos of like how we’re finding the our next guests. Um, because that relates to like the overall experience. So. Put a pin in that remind me that I said that in like a couple minutes when I forget ah, um, yeah, the the best way that we have found to 1 find new people and to actually get in touch and get responses from.

12:31.80
podcomm
That’s not going to work but go ahead.

12:47.15
Melissa
New potential guests is asking the people that we’ve just talked to so when you’ve just had a conversation with someone one. We’ve already talked to you so we’ve at this point probably think you’re pretty cool and have important and useful things to say so asking them not. Who they think we should talk to. We’ve discussed this before there’s a difference between asking who do you think we should talk to and who would you like to hear us talk to and that being don’t think about what you think our show is and what makes sense for our show. Give me a name based on what is the person you want to hear have Craig or have a conversation with Craig um, or you know sick craig on for conversation. However, you however, you want to take that. Um, yes.

13:33.42
podcomm
Um, are you and I put that somewhere along the way up. Yeah, who do you want is hear get Movers mindetted who do you want to hear get conversed. Yeah.

13:43.80
Melissa
Exactly um, and I think that gives us a lot more interesting things. Occasionally I will ask for kind of specific things but because the guests that we’ve spoken to often have kind of lots of like different interests. They have their own like Venn diagrams. And that kind of opens up different areas to us so we we happen to be well placed within the par core verse. Um, so we’ve spoken to a lot of people there but trying to talk to some people in different areas once you get 1 you can kind of ask okay who else do you know of.

14:20.98
podcomm
Um, right.

14:21.29
Melissa
That we might not know should we speak with and then the other nice thing about that is if they’re asking you to talk with someone they happen to know that person that makes my job much much easier Hey you you said? you’d like to hear us talk with this person. Can you kind of do a little intro get us connected. Um, just to take that next step.

14:28.35
podcomm
Um, hey could you? yeah.

14:41.40
Melissa
Makes it a much easier sell if you will to that next potential guest. Oh wait I remembered the thing So then that kind of also relates to ah the conversational experience and kind of selling that whole experience to a guest.

14:42.12
podcomm
Um, yeah, yeah, um, go ahead.

15:00.92
Melissa
Um, we’ve we’ve talked with a lot of people some of whom we have known pretty well like personally and that’s always a good basis to start from. But as we’ve kind of done many many conversations. At this point we’ve we already talked to a lot of people that we know so. Pool There is getting slimmer and talking with people that we don’t know has been interesting because that’s kind of changed the way that we’ve or at least that I’ve kind of thought about approaching that and how we’re pitching that experience and we’ve had many discussions. We’ve very intentionally.

15:28.24
podcomm
Are.

15:35.82
Melissa
Um, changed from talking about what we do as interviews to conversations and talking about how to do the specific. Ask how much time we think it’s going to take explaining why we do things in person and kind of creating.

15:47.10
podcomm
Right.

15:54.14
Melissa
Ah, space where someone feels comfortable to actually open up and be vulnerable and have an organic conversation rather than you know, just the facts.

16:06.52
podcomm
Right.

16:07.73
Melissa
Bang Bang Bang Here’s the questions type of interview and that’s part of why we’ve kind of discussed it as a conversation and um even part of why I end up coming along on those trips to do recordings. Um I Do a bunch of backend stuff as well with notes and show notes and everything but part of that is having. 3 people in the room makes it a little bit more it changes the space. It makes it less kind of intimidating if you will so that was the other thing I wanted to kind of mention that I think is a pretty unique way that we do things. Yeah.

16:27.19
podcomm
Yes.

16:34.20
podcomm
Yeah.

16:40.86
podcomm
Yeah I think recording virtually is safer is not quite the right word, but it’s a a much less intimate experience for Joe random person who’s going to get you know, have this conversation recorded for a podcast. It’s easier on them because they can just be like I could just cover the camera and hit stop.

16:48.40
Melissa
Much less. Yes, rain the person.

16:58.42
Melissa
Right? Well, it’s also like right? It’s it’s home turf advantage you can set up. However, you like whatever way you feel comfortable. Everybody’s been on a video call at this point. So there’s a certain amount of familiarity with the process. Um, in a way that I think most people don’t have when.

17:00.14
podcomm
Um, as opposed to having people know where you live or come to your town or.

17:10.43
podcomm
Um, right.

17:18.21
Melissa
Here’s a microphone. This is how you sit with a microphone. Don’t touch the microphone you know all of the extra stuff when you’re recording physically what what this is going to apply what’s the most surprising thing.

17:21.41
podcomm
Right? What’s I don’t know if this is going to fly. What’s the most surprising thing that you’ve seen or heard from a guest related to them like. Gave them a platform and then they said or did or told you about like what’s something surprising that you’ve seen happen that’s related to platforming.

17:49.20
Melissa
This isn’t exactly I guess something surprising at least not to me I think it’s surprising I’m going to i’ going to tweet the question a little something I think is surprising for the guests. So many people the thing you hear the most when you ask people to sit down and record a conversation is.

18:06.97
podcomm
And how many people have you asked to sit down and record a conversation. Yeah, it’s like a hundred. It’s like a hundred right? okay.

18:08.92
Melissa
People people are like oh gosh a lot I’ve lost numbers. You want real numbers. Yeah, it’s a lot It’s a lot. Um I mean the thing this is one of the pros and cons of how we do things. When you do give people an agenda or a platform they’re like oh okay I have specific things to talk about like for me today. It was like okay yeah I can absolutely talk about you know how our whole process works and how I think about selecting guests. Um, but. When you don’t give people a specific thing. They’re kind of like oh ah, what am I going to talk about um and I think that’s one of the things almost every guest we’ve had has surprised themselves with what they end up. Oh I do have things to say and we’re like.

18:58.49
podcomm
Yep.

19:01.50
Melissa
Yeah, that’s why that’s why we wanted to talk to you. So um, it’s not surprising anymore ah to us. But it is fun to kind of watch that process happen of the like and you can see it physically when the person is there kind of like how they’re sitting and then.

19:05.82
podcomm
To us right.

19:20.40
Melissa
There’ there a point in the conversation where Craig hased cracked the code and they’re like ah okay I found the thing that’s going to get this particular guest to kind of open up. Um and that’s not every guest. It’s varying degrees but when they kind of open up and are like fully comfortable in that space and just like. Are on a runaway train and gregig’s like oh oh yep, okay I’m keeping up I think um and you can kind of see that happen and I think that’s one of the really cool things I guess that not necessarily surprising but I don’t know that I was specifically expecting and it is fun to see how surprising it can be to guests still, we still have people. After we release their podcast episode be like wow. That’s so like I sound so much better than I remembered. My favorite is.

20:03.19
podcomm
My favorite is legitimately surprised at how coherent you made me sound and to which my response was like I didn’t do that You did it? Um, yeah, there is deep deep magic in creating space which is a whole like how to physically create space a whole other conversation.

20:17.15
Melissa
Space. Oh yes, this would be great, but there’s a magic that.

20:21.50
podcomm
Um, but there’s a deep magic that happens when you invite someone and you give them the opportunity and then um you whoever that is you know listener me Melissa then you show up honestly and interest you know which with honest interest and be curious. Um magic happens. It’s great conversations I think are um.

20:38.15
Melissa
Yeah.

20:39.90
podcomm
Ah, big part of what makes humanity worth continuing. That’s just me though. Well let’s call it there Melissa as always. It’s a super pleasure to get a chance to talk with you and thanks for sharing your insights.

20:50.86
Melissa
Yeah, of course, thank you.