Transcript for "Perspectives - with Cara Ooi"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Konine hi Kara welcome to the show. Thank you as I say to everybody because I mean it thank you for taking the time and it’s always a pleasure to get to hang out with what I love most about this show as I get to geek out about podcasting with other people who love to.

00:02.38
Cara
Hi I’m Kara.

00:19.35
podcomm
Geek out about podcasting and I’m going to say you did something interesting which is you created your first podcast and I say first because I know you’re cooking a second one you created your first podcast and the ground sort of moved a little underneath you and you realized that it wasn’t quite. Perfect thing and you did. But I think is very smart which is you decided it’s going to be 13 episodes and then I’m done like I’m not going to delete it I’m not going to try and bash my head against the wall like it has to keep going. You. You did like a nice um I haven’t listened so I don’t know how succinct it is but they did like a nice concise here are the pieces. And I I know that you also have a clinical like you. You are a professional and who are we are we are we hiding who you are so I’m I’m wondering how you use the podcast that you have out there because it’s it’s got to be almost two years now a year and a half since you put that out.

01:01.46
Cara
Um, no, no, that’s a guy.

01:10.71
Cara
How long has it been not yet, not yet a year not yet a year. you know that’s okay, that’s mine.

01:13.20
podcomm
I’m wondering how you use that not yet a year I’m bad I’m wondering how you use that with your with your clinical work like you mentioned that you send people to it and you include it in your newsletters and how did how did it turn into a resource maybe that you weren’t expecting it to be when you first started creating it.

01:28.28
Cara
Well I think I was expecting it to be a resource I Knew that there was an issue that I was often running into where I had all of these strategies and advice. But I just often didn’t have time to go into the you know into all of the details in my actual clinical work. And so that’s actually where this came from and I think when I started the workshop for you and I know each other from that was what I wanted to do I didn’t even I wasn’t even sure that I wanted to create a podcast I knew I just wanted to learn how to do audio and so that’s why I went into it and then of course being in the workshop. It was very exciting because everybody is.

02:03.28
podcomm
Running in the hallways right.

02:03.75
Cara
Talking about their podcast and launching things and so then so then I wanted to put together podcast too. So um, how do I use it I I’ll often reference certain episodes I will send people to my website or as you’ve mentioned I included in my newsletter that I send out to parents of teens who may be struggling with their sleep. So It’s helpful I can just instead of me having to go through the whole spiel. It’s just there for me and I can reference it whenever I need to.

02:28.92
podcomm
And there’s I Guess there’s a power tool or a force multiplier of being able to like you know that you’re going to deliver the best version of the message or the version that you record in anyway like you don’t have to be like oh I had to be my a game and give the same spiel the Eleven Thousandth Time. So I think there’s. There’s power there and being able to say like I did this? Well you know to a level I like and now I know that it’s going to be that experience for each person each time have you gotten any feedback from people who have who have found um, either the medium like really helpful like that’s.

02:55.34
Cara
Whom for sure.

03:04.71
podcomm
Was better than having to listen to you because it has a pause button like have you got any feedback about people consuming it.

03:08.94
Cara
So it’s interesting because the the podcast series is geared towards teens because that’s who I’m talking to most of the time but I have to say it’s been. There’s been a lot more interest from the adults. So whether it’s the parents or other professionals who work with teens or just adults.

03:22.40
podcomm
Um.

03:27.96
Cara
Who are wanting to get tips for their own sleep I would say that that’s probably my my biggest audience um to be honest, the feedback that I’ve received from some of the teens that I work with is that they’re really tired and so they can’t listen for too long. And that’s pretty expected and and it’s interesting because I think as I went through the process for me I thought um you know these episodes are all less than 10 minutes and so was like oh that’s great. It’s nice and bite size really digestible. But I I forgot that what’s typically being consumed now is 15 seconds or less right on Tikok and so.

03:59.11
podcomm
M.

04:02.92
Cara
It was. It was a really interesting learning experience for me to put that out and to just to see you know how it how it fit with what people need right? And how my my audience of teens and what they need. So anyways, it was It was a great I think experiment experience but that’s.

04:15.80
podcomm
What they mean.

04:20.82
Cara
That’s a big part of why I stopped at 13 episodes putting a podcast together as you know is quite a lot of work especially at the beginning and I was investing a lot of time that I really didn’t have into putting these together and so yeah I think 13 episodes was perfect and and then I’m then i. Very glad that I have these skills because now I can apply them to future projects.

04:40.20
podcomm
Yeah, whether or not the projects are audio only next time somebody says can you make a video of it’s like well yeah and I can make the audio pretty good. Do you find that? Um, so one of the thoughts I had why you were describing. It is I was thinking. Maybe what you should do is take your original recordings that are sub 10 minutes pad them out to be 45 minutes long and make the last 3 minutes of recording of you going. Okay, it’s it’s time to wake up and then.

05:07.74
Cara
And.

05:10.29
podcomm
Let them listen to the show tell I’m like set 45 minutes aside there’s 38 minutes of silence in here and then at 45 minutes I will begin talking again to wake you back up because they probably need a nap if they fall asleep in 4 minutes

05:22.33
Cara
Well I have thought about I think the cool thing about learning how to do Audio is that then you start to get all these ideas about how you can use it right? once you have that skill then I’ve had thoughts about trying to do audio that walks people through how to do a bedtime routine. So they’re not having to figure out what to do in the moment.

05:29.57
podcomm
Oh.

05:41.60
Cara
Or Even how to do a ah study session right? which is something that is not directly related to sleep. But it is because it does impact people’s ability to get ready for bed on time be able to wind down on time. So I think um, again, it’s it’s It’s not. Problem at all that I spent all that time putting together that series because it’s just taught me a ton and given me a bunch of other ideas about how I can how I can put out resources essentially.

06:07.81
podcomm
You want to talk more I’m I’m going. We could just talk about sleep for the last thirteen and a half minutes and that would probably be a good thing if we wanted if you want to do sleep or do you want to do more podcasting stuff. You have a preference.

06:20.53
Cara
Let’s I’ve been talking about sleep all day. So let’s do podcasting? yeah.

06:24.40
podcomm
Let’s not talk about sleep. Um, what? Um,. Let’s say let’s go further afield there there would be so people listening who know who you are who’ve like encountered you in the podcast courses or who have been a fellow remarkable in your journey. Um. What’s something you think that people who know you in passing would get wrong about you.

06:44.28
Cara
Um, so probably the the number 1 thing that people say about me is that I’m really laid back and I’m really not I’m really really not a laid back individual I I I guess I portray that but that is a a. Myth I am not only back individual.

07:07.88
podcomm
Ah that’s where does what we can where do well if people if multiple people give you the same um perspective then that must be an affectation that you’re putting on either consciously or subconsciously. Do you um. Do you think maybe that just comes out of doing clinical work because I’m I’m kind of guessing you can’t just run around like a not you know in in a clinical setting and be like oh we the thing and then like drop stuff and and like be a complete you know Tasmanian Devil kind of mess with files and papers you have to have that have to have cultivated a semblance of I let’s say semblance. Have to have cultivated a certain professional level and I wonder if maybe that doesn’t just carry over because it works perfectly in podcasting. You can just be that person I’m wondering if that carried over into how you’re presenting yourself to fellow podcasters.

07:46.16
Cara
And.

07:57.47
Cara
Maybe? Um I wouldn’t say that I probably was told that I was laid back before doing training and doing the work that I do now I think it probably is a combination of it’s a little bit of me acting as if to help. Maybe. Quiet Some of the the inner experience of not being laid back I Also think I have always been just my natural tendency is just to be very aware of other people and how they might be reacting to me and so I think that’s also part of it that I just um. I’ve probably learned like you said to put on a certain veneer of Calm. Even though that’s not necessarily how I’m feeling on the inside.

08:38.65
podcomm
Yeah summer an attempt, not attempt to be artificial right? It’s an attempt to be like well it works better when C Craig comes across as if he’s saying um, what do you think what’s and um I pause because there’s some like so many questions I could ask. Um, what do you think is I always love to talk about the power of audio um like the actual literal having headphones on your ears is a fundamentally different kind of experience than visual. Um, just based on biology and I’m wondering. What might be ah um, a podcast like a particular format. Um, you know interviews or you’ve always wanted to be the fly on the wall wall. Other people are talking. There’s all these different formats that you’re not currently doing and a morning if there’s another another format of podcasts that’s kind of. Tickled your curiosity but you haven’t really found a reason to do it yet.

09:38.54
Cara
Haven’t had a reason to do it yet. Well I mean maybe I’ll I’ll not quite answer your question but I’m sorry but with my with my next podcast and actually one of the the realizations that I had in doing.

09:46.65
podcomm
It’s 5

09:51.32
Cara
That first podcast series was that I loved interviewing people and I loved having conversations and I was much more natural in giving my answers if I’m not just talking into a microphone I Also found that in doing both interviewing a couple of people through that workshop because I just I wanted to have that experience but then also After. Workshop being interviewed by a couple of our fellow podcasters from the workshop I I found that just by talking through things in an interview really gave me a different lens a different framework for how I viewed certain things and I and I was just amazed by how.

10:12.34
podcomm
Yeah, can like do the circuit right.

10:27.96
Cara
Much I learned from those experiences and so I definitely want to do that in the next podcast. It may not all of the episodes may not necessarily be interview format. But I definitely would like to have that I want the ability to be able to collaborate with colleagues and learn from colleagues and experts who have information that I. Really want to have and and just be able to to kind of co-create things with other people I think is really Fun. So um, your question had been those interesting something about something a format that I wouldn’t think I could do which I don’t have an answer for that I’m not sure.

11:00.69
podcomm
Um, yeah, it’s just definitely a good attitude in podcasting that’s for sure I’m so you mentioned and I would ah I agree with your answer to ah some of the things that are.

11:06.60
Cara
I Feel like everything is possible.

11:19.71
podcomm
Magical or powerful about the 2 people talking format and you mentioned of it. You mentioned it that when you’re the guest. It gives you a lens to like look at your own thinking in a different way if I’m not putting words in your mouth and I’m just wondering like I would agree with you. There’s. Definitely an aspect of if somebody asked me a question I think a 9 you know 9 things spring to mind. It’s like well I don’t have a week I only have a few minutes so I’m gonna have to pick one or 2 of those or or maybe I pick the third one because that fits better with what we’ve been talking about and there’s a there’s a filtering and a distillation that happens and I’m I’m wondering what your thoughts are on like why is it such a great lens. Why why do we find it to be such a great lens for our own thinking you know when somebody else says Carol. Why do you find it to be a great lens for your own thinking. It’s like an automatically kickoff all this magic. Um, and I’m just wondering if you’ve thought about that process like at the meta level of like what is it about being in a conversation with somebody else and being the guest and then they ask you something? What is it that makes what happens to you as the guest different than you know other situations in life.

12:27.24
Cara
Well I think you’ve spoken I think to the idea of constraint and you kind of have to pick right? You can’t go on when you’re on your own you can just you can think about something endlessly. But when you’re talking to somebody. You’re being considered the other person then you’re wanting to give them a concise put together answer.

12:33.23
podcomm
Yeah.

12:46.63
Cara
So I think there’s that and then I think also the fact that you can listen back to it afterwards is huge. So I I answer questions all the time in my work right? because I do clinical work and so I’m often put on the spot to come up with an answer and put it together concisely. But I think that ability to then go back and. Hear it and then be able to process it and oftentimes I find that I’ll I’ll hear myself on a podcast and then I’ll kind of think about it throughout the week and it will just help certain ideas gel in a very different way than if it just you know you gave the answer and then that was it you never got to really go back and revisit it. So it’s this way of. Iterating um with I guess I don’t know if that’s kind of feedback but you you get to go back to it and and say how did I say that again and a lot of the things that I have um I’ve recorded on a podcast I’ve brought directly back into my my clinical work and for example, I’m trying to remember who asked it maybe Nadine. Um, asked me, you know what are the top 3 pieces of advice and although that seems like a very obvious question that then has led now to a to some jump start guides that I’ve created and I now talk about the first 3 things that I think everybody needs to do and it really is very very helpful. Clinically. So. That’s one of them. There’s there’s a variety of other ones as well that I just kind of a bit of a lightball moment. You would that that went off and in in getting to have a conversation and then hear it back and process. It.

14:13.30
podcomm
Thank you for sharing that I think there’s yeah, that’s good to hear good to hear and um, yeah, I’m also part of the problem having recorded conversations is I don’t have the luxury of sitting here for 3 minutes and thinking about what you said. Ah, so I’m like trying to like store it so that I don’t forget it and then say something. Do you find that? um, do you find that there there are different kinds of people who. Who prefer I’m thinking about medium so somebody would say to you you know I have this issue and then you’re you’re like consulting and giving them so input in person versus when the message is recorded and I’m I’m wondering if people have learned they they might have learned because I don’t know they might have learned. To fear the in- personson more. So if you said the exact same thing it would work better in a podcast because what I’m thinking about is everybody out there in podcast land who creates podcasts are we at an advantage or a disadvantage just by the nature of the medium as in contrast to in person and face-to-face. I’m always curious about should we have video with our podcasts or is audio only okay and of course neither of those are as good as an in-person experience for the other person who’s the guest or the receiver of the ultimate thing so I’m just wondering since you spend a lot of time more time than me. Talking to people like in an in-person situation about the same material that you put into podcasts if you have any thoughts about how those work differently.

15:44.96
Cara
Yeah that’s such a good question and I’ve actually thought about that a lot lately because I will I recently have been giving some information sessions and I have been recording them and then posting them afterwards for people to watch and a few things. I mean 1 of them is I’ve actually had people be much more interested in watching the recording as opposed to attending a future live information session and there’s a few different ways of seeing that right. That might be kind of a bit of ambivalence about wanting to attend and so being able to watch the recording is a bit more of I think a. Maybe less engaged way or a more passive way of interacting with the material on the other hand I’ve found myself attending conferences recently where I no longer I’m so distractible because there’s so much else going on and I now always listen to my podcast. Watch my videos on at least one and a half time speed if not two and a half times speed and so for me just watching somebody give a presentation at regular speed I find it’s very slow and I get very distracted and I think just because we’re all homeworking and we’re surrounded by all of our work and our stuff.

16:38.56
podcomm
Um, right.

16:49.60
podcomm
Um, yeah.

16:53.37
Cara
I actually have attended conferences now where I won’t attend live I’ll just wait until they stream it and then I’ll watch it on double speed afterwards and I find that with the quicker audio I’m actually more engaged because there’s something that’s more motivating about it. So I think there’s that I think there is.

17:02.68
podcomm
Um. Yeah, maybe it’s more challenging because the data the data is coming out just so Fast. You have to stick to it.

17:12.89
Cara
And it just feels I mean this might be just be me but it just feels so much more efficient than than literally taking twice as much time to get through the material and it doesn’t I don’t find it more difficult to understand the material if it’s if it’s faster so there’s that and then oh sorry.

17:26.53
podcomm
Yeah, no, it’s just me I need a cough button.

17:31.90
Cara
And then and then oh sorry about that.

17:38.93
Cara
This is my my timer that I’ve recently got which I love called the time timer Anyway, sorry about that. So the other thing is that I think there’s something about discovering information on your own so there is this ah particularly with teens dynamic where if you’re being told what to do.

17:56.49
podcomm
Um.

17:57.80
Cara
By a parent but sometimes by a doctor as Well. It actually makes you want to do it less whereas if you stumble upon that information on your own on a podcast or video… There’s a different… The delivery is different. It’s not somebody telling you what to do? you’ve sought it out and you are wanting that advice and so I think that’s another thing to consider and that’s another. Bonus of video and audio that people can just consume on their own time.

18:23.35
podcomm
Yes I agree with everything you’re saying I think that that point about discovering it yourself is is really you know because I can begin and then press pause and then I can be like oh yeah. I’ll listen to more of that later and then change the playback speed or or decide to skip around or I do a lot of skimming through episode notes before even deciding to queue the episodes up and they’re not even auto downloaded I like read them my Rss reader and I read I follow people’s raw podcast feed. An Rss reader and just read their episode notes I’m like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and then like everyone smiled that one’s interesting and then I’m manually at it and listening to those episodes I find aside from I tend to have fewer that are in the queue. But I find that because I discovered it and already read the episode notes and I have. Least a preconceived notion of what it’s going to be I feel like I have ownership is in the right word but I feel more engaged with the thing even when I look at it in the queue. It’s like yeah I I put that there not like it was subscribe. It’s like I chose that so that’s a good point about that this the the discovery you know, uncovering it yourself.

19:19.96
Cara
And here.

19:26.80
Cara
Yeah, yeah, and timing as well too right? Sometimes you are you are in a different place to receive information. So.

19:35.38
podcomm
Yes, yeah, you can’t read Victor Franco when you’re 12 like it doesn. It doesn’t work right? Yeah yeah.

19:42.68
Cara
Sure, but even just the time of the day like when you’re tired versus when you’re not maybe at a time where you’re just more more alert or just more yeah more more able to be engaged with the material. So there’s that flexibility which I think is really a bonus to.

19:54.65
podcomm
Yeah, random last second. Do you find that now that you know how the I say how the food gets made in the kitchen like you know how to make podcasts did it change the way you look at other people’s shows like did it. Maybe make you appreciate the high production ones more or maybe maybe make you appreciate the lower production ones more because it’s like oh I know this is 1 person in a garage and it’s still pretty darn good like how just that do you think it shifted your um calibration of how you look at podcasts.

20:19.20
Cara
You know.

20:25.92
Cara
You know I haven’t thought about that but definitely something that I mentioned before is just how much work podcasts require. However, you also can outsource a lot of that and you you are the one who directed me towards a very good way of outsourcing things and so although I Love. Having the ability of knowing how to edit and also the fact that you can edit I didn’t I didn’t know that beforehand before doing the workshop that you can you really can pause and decide to say something a different way if you want to and you know that’s I think really a very cool thing about podcasting that there is this ability to redo. Things if you don’t like them anyway. But but I think moving forward because I think I So I as I mentioned it. It takes a lot of time I do like the idea of outsourcing and and being able to give a lot of that time consuming stuff to somebody who’s an expert and. And then just really leave the conversations and coming up with the ideas to or or that be what I I work On. So yeah.

21:23.96
podcomm
Um, right.

21:31.34
podcomm
Terrific as I say all the time because I mean it thanks so much. It’s been 20 minutes I think it’s a good place to stop for today. It doesn’t have to be our only single serving size conversation. We can do this again. Kara thank you for taking the time and joining me today.

21:43.31
Cara
Thank you so much for having me that was fun.