Transcript for "Opportunity - with Morgane Michael"

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00:00.00
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome this is the podcaster community show where I talk with podcasters about things which aren’t always about podcasting because I like to take the scenic route so today my guest is Morgane Michael welcome Morgane it’s a pleasure to ah after. No know like 2 years of hey would you like to but in your defense you’re super busy because you have a really ah popular and high numbered podcast. But anyway welcome thank you for taking the time.

00:30.58
Morgane
Craig. Thank you so much I’m so excited to be here.

00:32.15
Craig
I Always the more people get excited the more I get nervous I don’t normally get nervous with it and people are like this is going to be awesome I’m like oh shoot now I have performance anxiety. Um I I know that you just published a book. Let’s just do this right up front so you just published a book called from Burnt Out to…

00:49.33
Morgane
“Burnt Out to Fired Up”. Yep yep.

00:52.32
Craig
…Fired Up and the cover art for the book which I’m guessing you probably didn’t do but the cover art is really awesome. Not going to let the cat out of the bag. You all can go to Amazon and look it up I recommended you do? Um, so first of all congratulations because the book is recent. You just finished it like three months ago it published and came out so you’re probably doing it like a year ago you were ripping your hair out.

01:10.71
Morgane
Well, that’s right, it was it was actually somewhat serendipitous because it’s about burnout for teachers and essentially I I signed the contract for it right on March I think it was March thirteenth of 2020 so like right on the eve of all the lockdowns.

01:27.16
Craig
Um, perfect timing. Um so the the reason I bring your book up is because creating a book I have not written a book I have no intentions of writing a book I probably just jinxed that somebody’s going to ask me to write a book.

01:28.14
Morgane
And we didn’t even know how burnt out we’d be. Um, yeah.

01:43.30
Morgane
Yeah.

01:44.78
Craig
Ah, ah because my thoughts don’t go in straight lines for 20 pages. But when you create a book. It seems to me that you’re creating well the craig you’re creating a thing like when you’re done you you sort of have to like let go of it and was okay. It’s not done but it’s done and. Podcasting isn’t exactly like that because we can kind of create if we’re doing ah um, an episodic thing we can like ooh that last one sucked I’ll do a different job like we can kind of steer as we go but a book is very much like a there. It is um, but even in both those cases you are making work and yes, we we want to. Make positive change and we we want to accomplish something. Maybe we want maybe people want to make money. Um, but that’s one way to look at the work and the other way to look at the work which I heard you mention on David Novinsky’s show I recommend listening to that I don’t remember the episode number but it’s fairly recent like one hundred and ninety eight I think it might have been. Um. You mentioned the idea of doing the work to create opportunities and I I thought that’s a beautiful shift in mindset. So I guess since I’m supposed to be asking questions. My question would be and I warned you my question would be have you always thought about work that way or can you tell me.

02:39.19
Morgane
If.

02:55.25
Craig
What the mindset shift was like when you realized there’s another way that I could look at my work.

02:59.62
Morgane
Yeah, okay, so I think when I think about first of all I think Seth Godin was a really a really big catalyst for even starting my own podcast which is called kind sight one oh one and it’s about educator sort of. Bolstering educator wellness and and also that sense of community and the reason that I did it is because I wanted to sort of I I had done so much reading about community building and leadership and I just was like wow I just want to talk to people and consolidate this and have interviews and. And so honestly the work first came from just a ah place of deep interest and passion and and there was it that was that was 2018 yeah, 2018 yeah and yeah, so it was this like deep knowing that I just needed to do it and.

03:40.37
Craig
And and what year did you start the podcast just just okay, keep going passion.

03:54.36
Morgane
And and I’m but pretty tenacious person. So I think once I had that in my head I was like I just have to do this and the book was very similar in that I had written down and actually I had written it down in my journal and it sounds all very woo-wo and I’m kind of like the 2016 version of me is eye rolling right now going Mm But. At the end of the day I think when you’re intentional about the way that that you set forth in your life in any domain there is an outcome that is super powerful that that the present version of you can’t even conceptualize for the Future. So Essentially I had written down in a journal I’m going to write a book.

04:27.49
Craig
Amazing.

04:33.45
Morgane
No business writing that that goal down because I had never really been that interested in writing I’d done a bit of blogging and whatever but I’m like what why?? Okay so I wrote it down and I actually did get a contract with someone else and it it didn’t work out that book didn’t work out and then as a result of my podcast. There was a. Ah, ah, quite a popular ah publisher in education that reached out to me and said hey do you have a book in you and I said well as a matter of fact I’ve been writing a lot. Yeah, it has but I haven’t pinned anything down and so I think you know to answer that question around around the.

04:59.22
Craig
Um, it’s been rattling around. Yeah.

05:10.82
Morgane
The the purpose of your work I think that it really comes down to what are you passionate about what’s pushing you forward when you think about moving forward with any kind of project. Do you feel expansive and excited or do you feel constricted and is it it like a must do kind of project and I think for me. Everything related to the podcast everything related to the book was an absolute fuck. Yes, you know and so and so I was like yeah I’m doing this thing and I’m Goingnna do it on the side of my desk because I’m a full-time teacher and I’m going to do it and I’ve got two kids who are you know under 7 I’m gonna do it I’m gonna do it in at nighttime or in the morning and.

05:40.50
Craig
Roof door. Ah.

05:46.24
Morgane
And that’s going to suck a little bit but I want it so badly and I can’t tell you why there’s no monetary outcome that I’ve got in my head that’s going to make this worthwhile. It’s really about what makes me feel filled up. You know.

05:55.58
Craig
Yeah, but your your point of so I I did this thing and I then I made a podcast and then all of a sudden somebody asked me to make a book and then I made a book and then it’s like well who know now you’ve astronomers would say zero one infinity I have no evidence for the thing I see one. When I see the next one. Oh. There must be a lot of them out there and my reaction to that is oh well who knows what’s going to be next like because we literally have no idea you just always make a podcast because that’s what I’m that’s what I’m called to do that’s where my passion is and a book popped out so who knows what’ll happen I mean the the book’s only been published first.

06:21.86
Morgane
Yeah, yes, yeah. Ah, you make it sound so very easy. It. Yeah um.

06:31.99
Craig
Ah, it’s only been like three months as the book’s out right? So yeah, we got to give it a chance to get read. Oh man i.

06:35.59
Morgane
Ah, yeah, yeah, and I yeah and I think about that and you know what’s come from even the book is interest of course because in education there. There’s quite a platform for professional development and I love to talk and I like to tell stories. But I also like to listen right? So I think there’s kind of this this beautiful.

06:48.70
Craig
Ah.

06:55.37
Morgane
Evolution from the book from the podcast now comes the interaction with real people and actually being able to serve as a coach or being able to to Keynote and leave people feeling excited and inspired and I think that has been a really fun surprise and all of these little threads you know like in grade Two I was a big nerd and I had a. Ah, you know I had a I dragged all my grade two friends to my house to do ah story writing club in high school I I did a lot of drama and and did a lot of performance kind of stuff not anything professional but like there was every little step kind of consolidates to.

07:29.72
Craig
Um.

07:31.64
Morgane
Where you’re supposed to be so I feel like I’m very comfortable in front of a big big group of people that’s handy because that happens to be a lot of people’s biggest fear right? So I’m you know I’m excited and who knew who knew that that would even be something you know that would be a valuable skill set to be able to speak in front of people. But it’s.

07:39.11
Craig
Um, yeah.

07:49.80
Morgane
It’s handy. You know it’s a handy thing now I’m grateful for that? yeah.

07:52.35
Craig
I I love that you mentioned evolution I also wrote on explicit that said we were talking about process and spreadsheets Kindff what if you’ve been on the show Craig has a giant to do list. It’s a piece of paper that goes with every one of these episodes. It’s partly from my fear of names.

07:56.72
Morgane
Oh yeah.

08:06.67
Morgane
Right.

08:10.27
Craig
But it also gives me a chance to write and I have no problems with the show becoming explicit but it’s very important that I hate a checkbox. It’s like I’ll get in trouble I’m like oh we’re hitting the checkbox um, but evolution I I’m drawn my my swirling in my mind you remember the Harry Potter the pensive pull the idea.

08:12.27
Morgane
Right.

08:25.94
Morgane
M.

08:28.73
Craig
I have like I love that I had the visual of like all these ideas I put them in there the night my chopsticks I reach pull some out. It’s probably a magic wand but I’m thinking about evolution and the idea of we don’t really know what the next thing is going to be and yet the more that we the more that we experience this evolutionary process. The more excited.

08:31.39
Morgane
Nice.

08:48.10
Craig
Feel I get about it and when you mentioned journaling I’m wondering. Do you like on how long you’ve been journaling. But do you look back at your journals in a regular way like do you review? How do you do? If you’re willing to share. How do you do like self-reflection and um I think it was Marie Curie the famous chemist who said something.

09:00.40
Morgane
Here.

09:07.59
Craig
To the effect of you. You cant tell how much work is left to be done like all you can do is look back and go Wow that was a lot of work like you. You only can look back to assess I’m just wondering like how do you self-assess and what do you do to get a read on how far you’ve come to turn around and then charge forward.

09:13.65
Morgane
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:21.21
Morgane
Yeah, so I’m not always really good at celebrating the celebrations right? So I think that’s been a new that’s been kind of a new practice for me, especially since some of yeah, right, right? exactly? So and I think part of that is is really.

09:27.21
Craig
Wait. We’re supposed to celebrate our successes. Oh crap.

09:38.84
Morgane
Ah, beneficial because you’re not stuck kind of in the past and and missing out on the present opportunities. However I think well no exactly I think it’s kind of this idea like you’re always sort of a beginner I don’t I don’t when I’ve been doing the podcast for a while. But.

09:43.57
Craig
And you don’t want to I don’t want to feed your ego right? Otherwise I want to sit around all day and be like look I awesome I am right? Yes, sorry.

09:57.44
Morgane
You know I’m sure I could be better and I maybe don’t feel like I need to focus too much on on you know the the nitty gritty because for me the purpose of it is different than maybe if if I was ah an absolute professional and whatever. But so.

10:09.70
Craig
Right? Yeah, then somebody is going to say this needs to be two inches taller and a little more to the left. They’re going to you specific goals right.

10:15.19
Morgane
Yeah, yeah, so I like that idea of like it’s it’s It’s great for me right now. But back to your question because I tend to meander as well. Ah is that when I ah.

10:24.60
Craig
But you’re going back? Oh my God You clearly do this for a word for real because most people just ramble and they never come back. Sorry go ahead.

10:33.16
Morgane
Yeah, um I can hold a thread. Yeah um I think I think with the journaling it’s It’s a process that and I’ve given myself permission to be inconsistent with it because I think I think that’s how I I operate I am inconsistent.

10:50.95
Morgane
Sometimes I batch you know, which means just when it comes to the the degree of work that I do the intensity of work that I do the number of interviews there have been times where you know within a week I’ve scheduled 16 interviews because that’s what works for my schedule and it’s hectic and it’s crazy. Ah, but then I have the product that I need.

11:03.13
Craig
Motion.

11:10.40
Morgane
And then there’s other times where I’ve given myself almost like you know how you follow a field or whatever like I’ll give myself the space that I need and and I’m not as panicky about it and I don’t know if it’s because of this book that kind of came out that I feel like okay I can just chill a little bit and relax like there’s not that same sense of urgency. But it’s the same with journaling.

11:29.67
Morgane
Where there are times where I feel an intense need to be journaling all the time and then there are others where I’m like I don’t need that right now same with meditation and I think that when we step off the the conveyor belt sometimes people get really freaked out when they when they lose that track.

11:48.94
Morgane
The habit track right? They feel like oh my gosh I’ve fallen off the wagon or whatever I think there’s an opportunity then to reset and then to set new fresh goals or to kind of recalibrate I don’t always think getting out of the habit is a bad thing and so when I look back at Successes. I Do see growth and I and I’m proud of that and then I also go and this might be a time of rest right now or this might be a time to just sink into what does present time feel like there’s been so much change in all of our lives but in my own personal life So much change and so I think I think giving myself that space to breathe has been important.

12:26.90
Morgane
And and actually has has fueled my creative capacity in in a really surprising way I think yeah yeah.

12:34.23
Craig
Um, it 900 things I want to say 900 questions ah 1 random one is habit I love that you bring up habit because I’m I’m a processed nut like not in a good like ah process overload.

12:50.37
Morgane
Umm, right.

12:52.45
Craig
Ah, so I do occasionally do like the wet dog shake off like all right I’m done tracking that or like I have a fitbit around my wrist today because I’ve started tis the season when Craig needs to get back into being less doughy because I like to rock climb. So it’s like okay you need to start doing some cardio bro get out there and you know do a little um, you know so but.

13:03.55
Morgane
Ah, yeah, right.

13:10.20
Craig
But I also get to the part of the when it’s only I don’t need to fit it anymore. Get this thing off my wrist. So I love that you’re ah mindful that you’re aware that I would agree with you and playing with Grammar I love that you’re aware that habit is a good thing like the habit of flossing my teeth works out really well. But.

13:29.40
Craig
It’s also important to realize that Habit is actually mindless. So if you want your whole life to be mindful then your whole life can’t be habits. Otherwise you’re not paying attention. So I love that you’re mind that you’re aware of I want that I want my podcast to be a mindful thing that I do that energizes me and revigorates me.

13:30.50
Morgane
Me.

13:47.77
Craig
And that youre aware enough to go all right? The actual problem here is getting the other people recorded so I’m going to work on that i’ mean that’s the ditch digging and now I’ve got that bro. It’s in the hand like it’s all easy. At this point we don’t put things in cans anymore Craig with film and cans. Um, so I wanted that’s one of the hundred things I’m like ah habit that’s great.

13:51.81
Morgane
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

14:07.61
Craig
I’m wondering if you remember when you started your podcast can you? Um, so we both went through ah the pot but used to be called it a different name. It’s called the podcasting fellowship when you went through and then I was after you and now that they changed the name. It’s now called the.

14:18.30
Morgane
Fellowship. Yeah.

14:26.65
Morgane
Oh okay.

14:26.80
Craig
So it’s called the podcasting workshop they call them “POD” … my brain is like they call them “POD” now …so we’re doing p o d and a number but it was TPF back then… and so I it seems like I have a mental problem like I can’t remember names like no I just don’t know which one to use. Um.

14:33.31
Morgane
Okay, yes, it was. That’s right? Yes, ah you might have been through 17 seasons. That’s probably why? Ah yeah.

14:45.41
Craig
Never um, but what I was going to say is when you created your show the course rightly so in my opinion teaches you that when you start you need you need to like get on the process treadmill here. You need to be like.

14:59.87
Morgane
Yeah, yeah.

15:02.70
Craig
If it’s gonna be weekly. It’s gotta be week when you gotta to do one on Tuesday you need to get in the habit of doing the thing and somewhere along the way I could continue blabbering but along the way I went screwed that I’m not doing it on a schedule I’m doing it what I can get like soon as I have one I just published a thing cause.

15:15.19
Morgane
Nice, Yeah yeah.

15:18.70
Craig
After a hundred episodes nobody cares that episode 2 came out on a Tuesday and episode 3 came out on the following Wednesday so I’m just wondering can you remember when you like had the mental transition from okay my podcast has become a habit and now I want it to I want to just have all the good part. The passion, the energizing part.

15:33.40
Morgane
yeah yeah yeah I think for me I’ve always been a bachelor so the habit was about looking forward and scheduling forward and so the first 30 episodes I actually recorded.

15:36.35
Craig
And I want to skip the part where it’s a habit I have to do it and it’s Monday night and I’m out of time.

15:52.43
Morgane
Ah, before TPF and I did it because yeah it was I I did and it was the craziest looking back I’m like holy crap that was crazy. Those are interesting and they were not short Craig this was like before where I was like hours like…

15:53.26
Craig
Holy crap thirty in the can. Wow. Um, and those are interviews so you got 30 people… so you got 30 who… god, panic.

16:12.50
Morgane
And then they were oh and and I was new right? So and those are still still in there. Those are like the first thirty and I had them ready because I remember Seth saying you’re gonna come out of this and you’re gonna have 30 episodes. That’s how they that’s how when when they first had this inaugural kind of promise to us was.

16:30.80
Morgane
You’re gonna come out with 30 episodes and I was looking and try and do the math and I’m like I don’t think so like yeah I’m like that’s like an improbable pause like this is not happening so then I’m like well then it’s incumbent on me to get that product ready so that when I went because I didn’t know how to put together a podcast I just knew.

16:33.74
Craig
Whatever you’re smokin’, give me some…

16:50.76
Morgane
You used like at the time I used um Skype and whatever so I was like hey I got 30 people I’m gonna reach out I know oh gosh the stress of that like ringtone I can’t even anyway so and then there’s nobody and you’re like oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. They’re not even there. Um anyway, so.

17:09.57
Morgane
So yeah, so I just had it already and and I had that because there was that urgency of like this means so much to me I have to do it So so that was the process at the beginning this sense of urgency kind of a life or death feeling. It felt like I might you know I was on fire but it’s not sustainable. It wasn’t sustainable and so then I kind of.

17:21.79
Craig
Yeah.

17:28.97
Morgane
Relaxed a bit and then and then it was a bit more I mean I was still doing you know on my breaks I would go you know Christmas break March break I would I would batch again. So I do you know 10 interviews in two weeks or whatever and and it was rich. It was really rich and it was a deep down process and then I’d slow roll them out.

17:45.75
Craig
Yeah.

17:47.66
Morgane
I also did a bunch of um to coincide with the book I released 12 like 12 episodes that were host on mike that coincided with each chapter and I did those? yeah I did those in one day and then I cut them up into little bits and they were just bite sized little chunks and I released those.

17:56.96
Craig
Oh nice.

18:07.57
Morgane
All at once as like a kind of like a Netflix season or something and so I’ve played around with format and you know I feel like the people who listen to the podcast. They’ll go digging if they want to I feel confident that the the teachers that I have you know they listen to it on their commute. They like it. They reach out.

18:26.52
Morgane
It serves a purpose. Um, and yeah, there’s enough there that I think people get something out of it and so I feel confident in that and I feel I feel good about that and I don’t really feel the need to change the process at this point. But maybe if I was getting paid or there were outside influences I’d probably feel.

18:42.27
Craig
Um, yeah, but if you were getting paid then suddenly somebody else I mean it’s 1 thing to have another mind involved people often ask me not I mean not literally often but I have been asked many times. What’s the secret to like podcasting after 5 years how do you keep and I’m like the secret is find somebody else. You can talk to about it and it’s not my wife I was like shut up about podcasting.

18:44.79
Morgane
The need to change it. Yeah sure. Um, yeah… right? right? Yeah for sure. Yeah.

19:02.15
Craig
But I have other people that I can talk to who we can just geek out for hours and that’s the magic is having somebody else to go. That’s a good idea have you thought of this and then like that kind of um, positive feedback loop leads to an upward spiral. Um, and what I’m what I’m thinking is.

19:07.82
Morgane
Um, yeah. Yeah, yes.

19:18.62
Craig
So you have a large back catalog now of episodes. What’s something that you wish you could do if I said here’s a million dollars what’s something and you can’t just go on vacation with it. What’s something you you would want to do with all of the maybe things that went on the cutting room floor or guests that.

19:19.64
Morgane
Um, yes.

19:34.63
Craig
Maybe their episode wasn’t the most awesome but you put it anyway like what are something if you wish you could do with all that body of work.

19:39.50
Morgane
I put a lot of it into my book. So I’m I’m happy at the way that because I was able to sort of pull from all the relevant interviews. So I feel I feel like that I’m happy with that I think what I’d like to do is actually do a conference with a handful of these some of the people that I’ve…

19:58.16
Morgane
And that I’ve interviewed and then do sort of like and I don’t know I haven’t actually put this down in writing or anything but I just if if I had a million dollars and it was not a thing I’d do a big conference and then I’d have these people talk for for you know for half an hour each and and do little workshops and things if that was relevant. So I just think the the expertise. That each of these people bring is just unbelievable, right? So so that would be really powerful. Um, yeah that I think that’s what I would do and then I think continue growing like I I think there are so many people that I’d like to talk to that I haven’t quite yet. Got hands on yet. So I I you know I set my sights on that as well. You know in the future kind of next steps for sure. But yeah.

20:39.39
Craig
Um, thank you for sharing that. that’s that’s ah um a really nice vision that the first thing you grabbed was all these people need the more… I always call it platform… these people that I’ve had a chance to talk to and distribute it via podcast.

20:49.75
Morgane
Um, um, yeah.

20:54.99
Craig
I would make more platform I would I would get them in front of more people that’s a beautiful way to think about the work. That is doing— I will point out that’s what I’m doing to all of you people that I bring on the show… is you people need more platform I want to get you out to the world. So yeah I definitely feel that.

21:10.80
Craig
Almost a panic some cases sometimes in my situation. It’s like oh this needs to be seen and heard and but I’ve like minimum viable podcast. Well we’re gone as much as I hate to say it the time has a s slipped by. So I think that’s ah as good a place as any to stop. There is no good place to stop ever. But.

21:13.39
Morgane
Yeah, yes. Amazing!

21:28.55
Craig
Stopping there. So thank you for taking the time I appreciate… I know you’re so crazy busy I appreciate you finding some time to chat with me today. Thank you.

21:34.48
Morgane
Oh thank you. This has been an absolute pleasure. So fun to talk to you.