Transcript for "Magic - with Jey Jeyendran"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Konine Hi Jay I’m trying not to say the same thing I always say which is welcome to the show I was so glad you took a time because Holy Cow like so glad that you’re finally here. Um I I don’t like to talk too much about how some people are hard to get a hold of but.

00:01.24
Jey
Hi there I’m J J andron.

00:18.19
podcomm
Thanks for making a space when I asked you about podcasting I do like a little free association thing. Um, and you said well first you said art. But then when we dug into a little bit more you actually said well the real first word is magic but I don’t think people would go for that. But it’s my show. So. Talking about Magic um I would totally agree with you that podcasting is a creative thing but I didn’t realize that when I started and so either you’re like way ahead of me right? like a. Do you recall when you realized that podcasting was this blank slate scary so stage microphone you know create from scratch space. Do you remember when you realized that.

01:07.15
Jey
Just as a listener actually just listening to all the different podcasts out there I mean really it It was just a wonderful space to be in and just a range of it is just extraordinary and people talking about sports podcasts and the passion they have and then going from there to.

01:25.82
podcomm
Um, he.

01:26.42
Jey
Radiolab or this American life and and and other shows that created soundscapes where just the sound of the wind can give you you shivers as as they overlay a narrative on top of it but really simple to do not not that hard really wants you understand. So effective and so and so powerful and you just need a laptop and a mic. Essentially it’s incredible.

01:48.66
podcomm
And some schrutzpa little bit of willingness to experiment. Um I’m always I always like torn with you know we talked for several minutes beforehand so I’m like don’t I can’t just assume people are going to read my mind. Um, we were talking about how much of 1 ne’s self um, is in the thing that we create. Um so all the stuff that I create is I actually have a real hard time doing host on mike I have trouble with that I’m I’m much more in my space doing conversations. And you made a really good observation which is yeah this is not like 1 hundred percent craig or in a way. It’s 1 hundred percent craig but it’s the craig that you know is like in the frame you know like this is the person that I’m choosing to show up as and I think that’s a super Maybe that’s really obvious to everybody in the world. But that’s another thing that I didn’t realize when I first started I thought I was just going to show up and be myself and the early podcast site that I did on I wanna say they’re cringeworthy but it took me a while to realize that actually there’s a better version of me that I can work to become.

02:48.42
Jey
Um.

03:00.57
podcomm
Um, so I have to like I’m watching the clocktic we have to like talk about all your coaching work and stuff. So do you? Um, do you see themes or commonalities when you see students come through the podcasting course. Um, first of all, do you agree with my yeah, there’s a better version of oneself that can be brought to the show.

03:18.28
Jey
M.

03:19.76
podcomm
And do you see people discovering that or do you or like am I not on Target with that idea.

03:23.60
Jey
Um, the people who get it get that and the people who don’t struggle because there’s 2 aspects to it number 1 if you really want to go deep and commit to this to commit to anything you have to decide who you need to be in order to do that. Because commitment ultimately means falling in love with something whether it’s your wife whether it’s your job if you’re unhappy. You don’t love it and so if you want to love podcasting. You could ah commit to podcasting in some way you kind of have to love it and to do that oftentimes you have to transform yourself into. Person who can who who can be a podcaster become a podcast and you transform and you understand you need to understand how that works for you and I I know the people who struggle they don’t want to do that or they don’t know they need to do that and so they kind of try and make. And they try and cram podcasting into their schedules. They don’t make space to become a different person. That’s the 1 aspect and then the other the other aspect is you you kind of mentioned about the personas you know we we create avatars for our listener but we should op to doing it for ourselves I mean you said you know there’s a better craig There’s not a better of craig. There’s and ah the effective craig that works for the audience you’re trying to serve it so that you’re better is that this craig is the 1 that the audience needs me I’m I’m I’m a really low energy type person. Usually I’m so usually just slumped in a corner somewhere way of trying to get some sleep but when I’m on my show I desperately try to. Um. You know stand up or put a deliberately smile to get the energy going because you don’t want to hear the real jay no 1 wants to hear the real Jade they need to hear the j that’s performing and and and I get really worried when people talk about being authentic I don’t want your authentic per self. Thank you very much. I I need to see the performer because I’m not here about you I’m here about either to get some kind of education or or to get some entertainment ideally, both um and I don’t care who you are and mo um um god who’s that guy who does um cdba I can’t remember his name but um.

05:21.66
podcomm
Ray.

05:32.20
podcomm
Oh yes, ah.

05:33.81
Jey
He was talking about yeah Derek Sivers Derek Derek sivers right? and he was talking about how he at 1 point he was a ring masterster in the circus and he was terrified until the Circus owners said look Derek No 1 Ne’s here to see you. They’re here to see the ringmaster you you don’t exist um and and. That point Actually that’s where I got my bravery from no 1 Ne’s here to see J they’re here to see the guy introducing the show that either entertains them or educates them.

05:52.31
podcomm
Oh.

06:01.17
podcomm
Ah, can I just press stop because that’s I got nothing to add to that. That’s I’m like oh right I’m supposed to say something next I was busy listening to what j had to say i. Um, okay, you’re you’re a big kid. Um I’m going to push back on the imposter Syndrome. You are the person who pushed back the most on me I’m not what do I have to say about podcasting and you’re also the person that the most number of people I’ve refrained from actually counting who when I say at the end final question you know off mike who do you want to hear they all say like jay I want to hear coach jay um so what is it about? is there something about podcasting that um was going to say brings out the imposter in all of us. But that’s a wrong. That’s a lousy grammar construct. Is there something about. And maybe you’ve already spoken to it about the creative aspect and and like showing up to behoove the listeners need but is there something particular about podcasting that makes my like Craig’s imposter Syndrome really. You know like I don’t get imposster syndrome on I’m raking leaves I don’t get imposter syndrome when I’m you know driving on the road or whatever. But like when I show up the podcast I start second -guessing I start thinking you know am I doing this right? am I asking good questions. Um any insights there about is there something about this particular medium or is it. Just showing up in any context causes imposter syndrome.

07:23.42
Jey
Um, yeah I think um, it’s the the tricky thing about podcasting is that it’s got a really super low barrier to entry but a super high barrier to continuation and people don’t. Ah, they don’t get that when they first start. So what happens is yeah they sort dive in and then you get that pod fade at episode 7 where it’s like oh what am but what am I doing that’s where the sort of the doubts start is anybody listening am I making a fool of myself that kind of question or you just stop and you can’t get the momentum to get back on track which is where I am at the minute. Because I haven’t done anything in a while and I don’t feel more embarrassed about that than anything else and but.

08:03.47
podcomm
Yeah, but I’m an interject asterisk you haven’t published audio in a while but you’ve done a shit ton relating to podcasting all over the place like you were somebody posted in on on derailing your conversation somebody posted in the podcast for community and they wrote a technical question about rss. And I looked at it and I went oh I need to and by the time I came back, you had written like chapter twelve of the technical manual for podcasting and I was just like yeah jay you don’t know anything so I don’t think it’s about publishing I think it’s about you. You said it showing up and being the person that. The listener needed so in this case, it was somebody who was another podcast or they weren’t you didn’t record and publish it but you spent a whole bunch of time that was probably forty five minutes a typing would be my guess it took you to write that whole post till you edited it and I just think that um you know maybe I’m holding up a mirror physician heal by myself about imposter syndrome which i. Didn’t intend from the start. But I really think that it’s um anyway I still your train of thought but I wanted to push back about? Yeah, you haven’t published in a while but who cares like that doesn’t like I don’t measure is that person a podcaster based on the the amount of like what’s the Half -life if you haven’t published in 8 months you have to give me back your podcasting title. It’s. Ah, podcaster is more than somebody who who pushes record pushes stop and does the publish like you know terry gross or krista tippett they don’t touch the gear right? They don’t they don’t do any of that stuff. They what they do for podcasting is the performative part. The creative part. So I’m sorry now i’ve.

09:30.29
Jey
I Get no I Guess it’s the you’re you’re right? Absolutely right in all those points and I guess it’s what is really poor about podcasting and doesn’t help is the lack of feedback or lack of meaningful feedback because there is no metric I mean.

09:41.70
podcomm
Yeah.

09:46.18
Jey
There’s download numbers which are about to be swallowed up by Apple because they’re they’re going to sort of get rid of those type things and and even the download numbers. You don’t know whether people actually listen to this show or not, you don’t know how long they listen to it for and so you have no way really at least for a long long time until you actually start directly interacting with an audience to know. Am I wasting my time. What what is it any good and feedback is so important I remember um, asking a psychologist when I was doing a different show years ago and and she was she was working with Gary klinein who’s 1 of the the big names not Gary klineins garnnaline I can kindt remember somebody like that anyway. Ah, big. Ah big guy person in the in psychology in the happiness movement and she was specializing in looking at really high performing individuals and what the differences that made the difference and and she had 2 things about these these folks 1 was that almost all of them had near death experiences but the other 1 was. Feedback that they all were hungry I mean hungry for feedback. Um, and and that always struck me because we’re in a medium where we just don’t get that. Yeah.

10:55.50
podcomm
Um, set up for failure right? feedback I pause because my brain goes a mile million miles an hour I have a million things I Want to ask what? Um oh. Yeah, why? What is it about the feedback part of it. So There’s when I’m when I’m in like right now. I couldn’t give a flying fake when anybody else thinks about this episode or whether anybody’s going to listen to it or tell me oh it was great or was this Jay do it on’t I I don’t care. Yes I got Jaed crack a joke. Do you know hard that is to get jaded like make a joke. Um I think.

11:31.57
Jey
Oh great, No great. Great! Thanks for thanks for wasting my time I’ll leave I’d say.

11:46.18
podcomm
That’s brilliant. Ah, but to me when I’m lost in the moment like enjoying it and I was just talking to Brandy heather about play you know like when this becomes a playful interchange and oh by the way we’re recording right? Then that’s when I know I’m doing the right thing like in all the times when I have gotten feedback. It’s always been about.

11:52.80
Jey
M.

11:58.98
Jey
A.

12:04.41
podcomm
Ah, piece of something I and even remember doing you know, but when I go back and look at it. It was a part where I was having fun and the guest was having fun and whatever. Um, and I’m just wondering if if there are things that we could because I don’t really have a good way to like help people who are stuck like I need feedback like are there are the things that come to mind.

12:05.50
Jey
Um.

12:18.21
Jey
I Think I think you’ve actually hit hit it on the head there with it with the playth thing because it then comes in again down to what’s the payoff of this and and I fall into this trap where I think that a payoff is to produce a great episode or publish a great episode. Actually better than that You should be in love in some way with the process. You know you don’t have to be love it. All of it. Okay, you know you may not like editing out the ums andirs and all that stuff. But at least some of it or a key part of it where you really love it actually making it because otherwise it’s a kind of if your goal is to. Create a good show then you only get 1 opportunity to do that in the process and and every other day is a fail until you’ve done that um, it’s like writing a novel right? You you you write you write you write you write you right? And and the only time you you can see success Successful is when you’ve published it. But actually if you start enjoying the writing process you win.

13:12.51
podcomm
Um.

13:14.73
Jey
And and I guess that feedback kind of forms that part where at least you know you’re on the right track. But really the key like you say is making it playful which is which of what I kind of done with some of my shows where I’ve just just kind of completely off the reservation with with what I’ve been doing I thought I’m never going to get any listeners but I don’t care because this is a wonderful chance to have a real play with. New sounds and new music and and just go crazy with and and just see what happens.

13:38.83
podcomm
Yeah, as you said the the barrier to entry is so low. It’s like oh I could make 1 hundred hours of podcasts. Well it wouldn’t even take me a hundred hours like can you say copy you know, look random noising copy it out. It’s easy. Um, but that to me is what feels scary like i. I cannot imagine trying to sculpt was it Michelangela said oh you just you take the block of marble and remove all the stuff. That’s not the angel and remove all the stuff and I’m like ha ha ha very funny I see what you did there and that idea of facing the blank the blank page or the you know you open your favorite.

13:59.57
Jey
Ah.

14:14.65
podcomm
Editor and okay, you know you got to press the record button. Um, and I think I got over that fear by well just pressing the record button a bunch of times and sometimes forgetting to push the record button and and just getting used to like ah you know in the beginning I’m still talking and like half my brain’s going stop talking like. Figure out how to like say something so the other person because then I can just be like look now I’m podcasting and I’m not talking and that’s I think part of the reason why I think host on mic is so hard for me I have such a terrible time with them. Um watching our minutes slip away and I’m still talking. What is it about What’s the greatest joy for you. So you’ve been back a couple of times I’m here quoting and making a joke. You’ve been back a couple of times as a remarkable and a coach in the podcasting course. What’s like the greatest joy for you. You know when you’re like I’m going into pod four hundred and 32 there’s this part that i. Like lose my shit when it happens. It’s so much fun.

15:14.84
Jey
I think um, there’s usually stage where there’s 2 things 1 is somebody gets it about the the sort of the transformation and being a podcaster and not worrying so much about the endproduct of the podcast. And that’s that’s just a thrill because they’ve just unlocked the secret. They’ve just become enlightened. You know, um, in world and the world of podcasting and the second is to see people consistently just make stuff so we have an exercise which is called sixty seconds where you create a sixty second recording of anything you like any topic. You know to worry about it could be an experiment whatever and to see people fall in love with that process you know and they they become podcast as that point because they’re publishing publishing publishing publishing these tiny little little jewels and that’s absolutely wonderful and. What’s really wonderful about it is they they shed all the crap that they bring to their normal show because it’s no pressure because it can be about anything. No 1 else is going to hear it. It’s only a tiny little thing. Everyone expects It’s not supposed to be fantastic and once they remove that pressure from themselves and they and they really let themselves. Express they they you know you don’t what a secreter of art is is saying what you really want to say that is it. There is nothing else and you know from from conception to execution and they do it in that sixty seconds and they don’t realize it and they don’t understand why having so much fun because it’m not supposed to be having fun because opposed to be making a podcast.

16:40.73
podcomm
Um.

16:48.00
Jey
And you can see them like look I’d rather do this. Thank you like can I Just forget my podcast and just do this for the rest of my life and that’s wonderful and think yes, you should until because what will happen is it’ll slowly emerge what you want to say you won’t but won’t happen immediately. You’ll get closer and closer and closer and it’s like stephen Pressfield talks about you know the shadow career.

16:53.75
podcomm
Um.

17:08.20
Jey
You’ll have a kind of tangential interest that actually leads you towards a thing that you really want to do and it’s the things that you really want to say but you just have to keep going and and when I see people on that path. That’s just you know, just thrilling.

17:23.97
podcomm
Um, yes, please 1 Um, um, the what’s a question I should have asked you.

17:34.52
Jey
Are you asking me that question for real. Ah, ah, ah, okay, what’s the 1 question you should have asked me is I didn’t know what would I have asked myself. Um.

17:37.97
podcomm
Yeah I wanted to see what you do with it.

17:53.62
Jey
Something Impossible I What’s the what’s the secret to podcasting I don’t know something like that. Oh I didn’t Okay, um I have not okay.

17:59.31
podcomm
You’ve already told me that believe it or not yeah they are the hope you oh I wrote it down say what you really want to say where’s the joy show I asked you like where’s the join showing up in the course and your but anyways.

18:12.31
Jey
Let’s see what’s what I’m trying to think what color i’vet interviewed for ah for for a couple of years actually so I’m not quite sure.

18:17.34
podcomm
That’s part why I asked you because that’s a really hard question and you don’t like being the interview hosts and so I’m basically asking to come up with a question.

18:20.33
Jey
Exactly.

18:26.58
Jey
I don’t know I don’t know I yeah no do you know things I don’t I don’t believe in 1 of the things that reasons I stop my interview show is that um I I just I just worry about so you know interviewing people and and.

18:29.56
podcomm
I’ll let you off the hook.

18:42.27
Jey
What what is the payoff I mean hearing what others wants to say about stuff because ultimately you know all these insights and all the edges and all that kind of stuff. Ultimately, we know what we need to do and we’re not doing it and we’re just procrastinating by you know, listening to other people say oh do this and do that and buy this planner and just. You know she use organizational system and and and and here’s a bunch of tactics and because we know deep down what we really need to do we just don’t do it and surround you know oh let me listen to this podcast first because it’ll give me an insight I’m sure will take me forward. No turn a podcast off and.

19:15.99
podcomm
Um.

19:19.71
Jey
Just do what you need to do. But you know so I don’t know I guess I guess that that would be my question. What what is it? You really need to do that. You’re not doing that you know you need to do and they probably wouldn’t answer because it’d be way too personal anyway. So funny, be be be cute to ask.

19:31.14
podcomm
Um, it’s it’s a really great that’s brilliant I um I’m so bad with names I’m great with faces a really really famous movie star robert downey jr geez craig robert downey jr said everybody has 5 things that they’re always avoiding doing that they should be really doing and like a good day.

19:39.75
Jey
Um, oh yeah.

19:49.93
podcomm
Is if none of those 5 things bump into them like yeah like you know what? you should do? Um I’m watching the clock tick. But I also think I I don’t listen to a lot of podcasts anymore if I if I spend forty five minutes listening in 1 day that’s like a busy listening day for me and often.

19:50.73
Jey
Oh oh.

20:04.99
Jey
Yeah.

20:09.80
podcomm
I will abort podcast Minutes in if I can tell this isn’t going to make me like I often listen while walking. So if I’m listening and I’m going. Oh I’m going to get to the end of this podcast and I’m going to be like a mile from home and I’m going to have all these ideas I’ll listen to that show.

20:22.44
Jey
And.

20:24.44
podcomm
But if a show is going to be like yeah um, I’m not going to care when this ends then that to me isn’t worth listening. So for me, there’s a spark of inspiration or like I have a low burning fire and it’s the somebody working the bellows like that something about listening to those conversations energizes me and.

20:38.83
Jey
Yeah, and I agree I think yeah because we make all these notes and put them to evannote whatever and we never read them again. So so what is the real payoff and I think like just like you said it’s actually we’re priming ourselves. We’re kind of getting into a frequency.

20:42.14
podcomm
Those are the ones that I’ll listen to.

20:56.20
Jey
Ah, where we’re in the energy where we want to do something so you know if you want to want to get something done. We listen to a podcast where folks get stuff done and and it’s not so much about the information. It’s about the energy level of those folks because then it’s like you you kind of absorb it and hopefully you’ll get on and do stuff and and you know, um.

21:01.32
podcomm
The air.

21:15.42
Jey
And I find that’s nowadays more with a payoff almost getting the sound right getting the energy levels right? The pacing of of the show is almost more important than a content like I listen to Grant cardone. Um, and he’s got fantastic energy I have no intention of going into real estate or property investment at all.

21:32.50
podcomm
Ah.

21:34.35
Jey
But I listen to every show because he’s so inspiring about just get off your bottom and get it done that that’s that’s what I need. That’s my hit.

21:43.39
podcomm
Yes I hate to say it. But that’s probably a good place for us to stop today magic in short form jay it’s been like a straight up serious total pleasure. Not just to get to talk to you today but like to do the hollywood squares thing a million times over and all the calls and courses and behind the scenes and all this stuff. It’s super fun. It’s always a pleasure to see you even if you are slumped in the corner. It’s still a pleasure to see you so thanks for taking the time today.

22:10.76
Jey
Thank you is a loss of funds. Thank you craig.