Transcript for "Knowledge - with Kathy Cocks"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Kontanine hi Kathy thank you for joining me this evening I don’t get to do for those of you listening out in radio way and this one might sound a little different because I might be a little more mellow right? than usual because it’s like in the evening on mean on the sun has gone down.

00:01.42
Kathy Cocks
And I’m Kathy Cox

00:17.86
podcomm
And for some reason I’m freezing cold I don’t know why that is Kathy thanks for taking the time to join me today. We’ve had a couple of um single serving size little conversations I think we had a conversation that was centered around. You know, using the community platform and then of course we wound up talking about podcasting. And I think we were in a couple of big Zoom calls. We wound up in little breakout rooms and wound up talking about podcasting so there’s definitely a theme and your work. Um and it sounds to me like it’s more than just work like it’s it’s a passion but we’ll just call it your work so your work. Um. Caring for people and then also helping people who are caring for people. Um, you mentioned to me before we started recording that you felt it would be selfish to not share all the things that you had learned and experienced and I thought that’s a very interesting. Like some people are like oh I have this thing I have to do it and then they start podcasting and and you seem to have found podcasting as a way to serve this calling that you had um so can you tell me? can you talk me, talk me through what was what you like when you first realized. That you needed to share was there a particular story that goes with that or was it just a culmination of you’ve been thinking about it for a decade.

01:39.43
Kathy Cocks
Well I have been working for a decade as a geriatric nurse helping people mainly in the community you know age and place I think I wanted to call my podcast driveway conversations but I was afraid nobody would know what it was about because what would happen is I would meet in these homes.

01:58.92
podcomm
Ah, he right? ah.

01:59.39
Kathy Cocks
And what’s really funny. You get the whole family is like a family meeting you know mom dad kids and the kids are trying to be really tactful because you know we’re dealing with a lot of personal stuff that they might notice about mom and dad like odor or you know cockroaches in the kitchen or something like that and so they’re like we want to hire your company and. Want me to explain everything and then the kids go hey can we walk you out to your car and the next thing I know we’re standing in Oklahoma either heat winter or wind and they’re like um, we wanted to ask you some more questions not in front of mom or dad the you know the aging parent.

02:33.18
podcomm
Mom or dad.

02:37.91
Kathy Cocks
And I’m like okay so we’re sitting there for like 2 hours and they’re just picking my brain and I could not give them everything that I had experienced in the past ten years you know, even in a 2 hour conversation in the driveway and I wanted to write. But when I became a nurse thirty five years ago. It ruined my writing.

02:47.34
podcomm
Sure.

02:57.77
Kathy Cocks
Because nurses write in this very cryptic style because you know you got to like you write all day and it’s things like short to breath patient pale. You know you don’t write incomplete C sentences and so anyway I just I always thought I’m gonna do a blog and I never.

03:00.76
podcomm
And you’re right all day.

03:15.90
Kathy Cocks
Got around to writing I’m like I can surely talk I know I didn’t know much about tech. So when I learned about podcasting and it came across my little Seth Godin email of hey we’re offering a podcasting class I was like oh maybe somebody will teach me about tech because I sure know how to talk and so the easiest thing for me was.

03:26.27
podcomm
Um.

03:34.80
Kathy Cocks
Post on Mike because I had all this stuff in my brain I could talk for 10 minutes edit publish and so it it did feel like a passion like I want to be able to share this information that I have like I said I have aging parents all my brothers and sisters and everybody and I just call them up.

03:36.45
podcomm
Um.

03:54.46
Kathy Cocks
And help them with what I know and I’m glad to do it so I thought maybe I can share this more with the world now I don’t have thousands of people listening but I don’t really care. You know my thing is to put it out there if people find it listen that’s that’s up to them.

04:11.72
podcomm
Yeah I mean that’s the only attitude that actually works if you if you try to be focused on the numbers or looking for that external validation. That’s a tough that’s a tough gig I I love the realization that you’re describing about. You know the standing in the driveway for 2 hours I mean I have I haven’t had those conversations around aging and in that context but I know what you mean we’re like somebody follows you out and you’re like oop this is going to take a while while we talk about all the stuff that we couldn’t talk about and the inside and there also seems to be. Um, a certain kind of comfort and this is kind of a question I’m wondering a certain kind of comfort that somebody could get by listening to you like specifically you like this was that nice person who I talked to you know a week ago and now I can hear that same person talking about something that I didn’t get a chance to talk to her about when she was here and maybe it helps me whoa that actually raises this issue and then when you do see them. You know they can talk to you about that. So I’m wondering about this like increased continuity of care that you can provide. Because you’re actually kind of still there for them even though you’re not have you thought about that is that a thing or am I way off base.

05:31.22
Kathy Cocks
Well I’m not exactly sure where you’re going one of the things that I really wanted to do is create in some ways a library of topics. So if someone’s dealing with driving. You know I say hey here’s my podcast. Go listen to the 10 minute one about driving so I really wasn’t saying you know you got to listen to.

05:44.59
podcomm
Are.

05:50.39
Kathy Cocks
Every single podcast from beginning to end I really wanted people to look at them so I’m not this like creative thing when I make a title. It’s like okay I’m talking about vitamin d or I’m talking about covid or I’m talking about immunization. So if you want to go look Parkinson’s so if you wanted to pick one thing.

05:58.88
podcomm
Move.

06:09.65
Kathy Cocks
But I know something about you can kind of go and pick that topic and listen to it so that was kind of my goal was to be able to say hey I know I can’t give you everything but here’s my podcast of things that I’ve just learned I Honestly I do do some research to make sure I’m not saying things totally off the wall but it’s more my experience like.

06:10.71
podcomm
Look it up.

06:29.60
Kathy Cocks
Yeah I’ve experienced this but sometimes I’m also just trying to reassure people it Sometimes it’s just hard What what you’re dealing with with your parents like my dad. He’s ninety and he lives alone and the pandemic got him inside and he’s not out with people.

06:36.70
podcomm
Oh.

06:46.48
Kathy Cocks
And we’ve all been talking about moving and this is a big sort subject with older people is telling them to leave their home and go to a facility and dad’s been really mad about it and I don’t know why I didn’t think about it then I was like oh yeah, there’s community centers. So I got him all this directions community center. He called me today. He goes I went to the community center. Had lunch and he goes you know on Thursday they had Bingo he was so excited about bingo and he was being around people and I could hear that excitement because you thought of a really great idea for me. So it’s taken us like six months of like dad. We’d we’d really like you to be around more people do this do that? Yeah. Don’t want to do all that I just won stay home with my cats and then I was like oh yeah, now he’s like excited because I’ve i’ found the place but sometimes you’re just you know it’s up and down and back and forth and and so I just want people to understand sometimes it’s hard sometimes it’s emotional and sometimes you’ll like. Hit a home run or you hit to first base or something like that I don’t know if that makes any sense but and the hard thing right? The hard thing about aging in a community is it’s not something that there’s anybody to go talk to your doctor. You know you can go talk to your doctor about I’ve got a sore throat I’ve got.

07:44.79
podcomm
All right? Yeah, you don’t know what you’re gonna get now.

08:03.55
Kathy Cocks
Heart Disease and he’s going to manage all that but you go well mom and dad are getting older. Their house isn’t the safest they forget to throw out old food. They get food poisoning and he’s going to look at you like ah you know? And yeah, yeah, and so there’s not. There’s nobody for people to just go talk to sometimes just to.

08:11.90
podcomm
And yeah I have a thing for food poisoning right? here’s anemeic right? ah.

08:23.53
Kathy Cocks
Talk things out. It’s not really a counseling thing. It’s just like are we doing the right thing you know what? if mom and dad fall what if I feel good. There’s just so many things that people don’t have anybody in the medical field to talk to. So um. I try to be that but I obviously I’m only 1 person and you know my boss has got to get a profit somewhere. So I you know stay as long as I can to help people and she lets me do that which I’m glad but you know we have to move things along. Yeah we got to be able to you know, pay bills and.

08:52.70
podcomm
Yeah, spend time where it’s going to have an outsized benefit right? That’s a wise right? You mentioned your boss and ah and obviously you have co-workers what sort of feedback have you gotten from them.

08:59.70
Kathy Cocks
And pay our caregivers and stuff like that and so.

09:09.89
podcomm
Maybe like before you started, they’re like you’re going to do what and then what’s kind of happened now that you’re 50 episodes in mad props by the way. 50 episodes is awesome. Um, what’s what’s the what’s the feedback journey been like for you from start through where you are now.

09:24.91
Kathy Cocks
Well the funny things they’ve listened to a few of them. They haven’t always listened to all of them I asked one girl’s like what are you listening to she goes Well I’m listening to Drama Mystery I said you’re not listening to my podcast. They know.

09:36.83
podcomm
Well to be fair, different people like some people want entertainment and and what you’re doing isn’t really meant. But yes I know what you mean? it’s like oh I kind of thought this was team me and you guys are all not listening Okay, fine. Ah.

09:41.66
Kathy Cocks
Right.

09:48.72
Kathy Cocks
Right? Yeah, So I think they’ve listened to a few here and there I mean everyone’s excited like oh that’s great. Go do it I’m kind of one of those jump in get stuff done type person I don’t think that it surprises them I would jump in and do something. Because I kind of came in and reorganized a lot of stuff in the office. It’s you know fault. Small family operated business. So You know it’s like oh I’m doing this and they’re like okay that’s Good. You know, but I don’t know how many they’ve listened to they don’t really come back and tell me and I don’t want to be like you didn’t listen to my episode because I know some I mean. A lot of things they might know and stuff. So.

10:24.91
podcomm
Have you? um I going to say roped any of them in but have you engaged any of them in being on the show have you have you like because sometimes I’ve I’ve found that people’s first experience with being a guest on a podcast. They’re very much like I don’t have any idea what this is going to be um. And I prefer to do recording in person and when I get a chance to sit down with them and we have fun and we point some mics and we hit record and then we still have fun and then we’re done and they’re like wow that was kind of fun sometimes it just takes that one good experience to suddenly find you have a new ally. And I’m just wondering if you’ve had any of them on the show or if you’re trying to line them up or do you have somebody who’s maybe guinea pig to go next or.

11:04.13
Kathy Cocks
I haven’t the only one my boss is ah the administrator and then ah like we have hr so it’s not they don’t always relate to everything you know, 1 ne’s doing scheduling one’s doing ah hr and so and I just started doing I think I told you before we start recording. Was doing host home mic because that was the easiest thing for me at first and then as I kind of was ready to branch out and just start doing interviews I’ve only done like 5 and I don’t have any travel gear yet. So I haven’t asked them I have thought about talking to my administrator but I don’t know. They would do it or not I got to figure out what I would talk about that would relate rather than just the running of the business is what we do so much in the office does that make sense whether it would really relate.

11:49.96
podcomm
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I was just thinking I I don’t know I don’t work in that industry. But I’m wondering the people that you guys are serving. They might be really interested in knowing. Oh yeah, I’ve heard that name like I’ve I’ve you know gotten a voicemail from Bob and hr or from so-and-so and scheduling they might actually enjoy hearing just a personal conversation with the people that they’ve never had a chance to talk to so they might not be super interested in hr but they might be interested in hearing the person. Who makes all of that stuff work I’m just guessing it might be something to ask the people that you that you serve when you’re out, you know in the field. Um, because that might be a well not might be that’d be a very different thing to put in your show the personal stories of the people who are doing the work. Um. Might or might not be interesting I don’t know.

12:41.48
Kathy Cocks
Well, it might be interesting just because it’s funny because people think that we just have this room full of caregivers just waiting for them to call us. Yeah, yeah, and so it is kind of funny I’m the only Nourish you know so.

12:49.14
podcomm
Yeah, they sit on shelves like dolls right? You pull them down you plug in the recageable battery winder cup and off goes Kathy here. How me help you and yeah.

13:01.32
Kathy Cocks
You know we’ve got a couple people in the office and then caregivers who go out in the field and stuff so I’m still like I said on the interview process I’ve interviewed a few experts a family member. Um I have a possible care ah person who’s being cared for that I might interview that’s written a book. Um, I try to get any books I can that anybody that’s written over seventy because I just find it fascinating even if the book’s not all that great just that they at 70 decided to write a book I just think that’s interesting. So.

13:28.33
podcomm
Um, any um I’m going to say any surprising insights after having interviewed people so far like what’s what’s been the thing it surprised you the most.

13:38.34
Kathy Cocks
I Think what surprised me is I just learned to listen and I try to have questions and I never use them. Yeah, that’s the thing I was like ah.

13:49.72
podcomm
He everybody learns that pretty quick.

13:56.65
Kathy Cocks
Haven’t used any of these questions and I’m just listening. It’s just been like I said a different process that I’m doing and so I’m trying to figure it out I do have a group that there’s 6 of us that we get together every two weeks in we review 2 podcasts a week so you know I’ve been putting my interviews out there and getting feedback from them as far as maybe ways to improve and stuff like that. But it is definitely all over the place. A little bit for me and so I’m still I feel like I’m in this learning phase but I really liked when I interviewed a family member just because you caught a lot more of the emotion and.

14:19.12
podcomm
Nice.

14:36.29
Kathy Cocks
Wanted in that 1 more just to say you know what? you’re feeling or what you’re going through is you’re not the only one going through it and I think so many times, especially something like dementia people get embarrassed about their family members having that and they don’t really want to talk about it or maybe they don’t want to take them in public. And so I think it is one that people can get kind of lonely or you end up just being homebound with the person you’re caring for cause you don’t have any way to get out to sort of be like you’re not alone. You know the stories I hear I’m not saying that that person’s story isn’t unique to that person but their emotions. That they’re going through are pretty much what a lot of people are going through when they’re dealing with their older person beginning to have some disability issues whether it’s physical or mental decline.

15:31.90
podcomm
So many choices when I pause. It’s not because I’ve nothing to thumb. It’s like oh hope watching the clock tick. Do you find that so you’ve been, you’ve been doing this basic work this type of work for 10 years now. Do you do you not get. Um. How do you keep from going? Oh yes, it’s this problem again like if you’re having these conversations in the driveway or you know you ring the doorbell and they open the door How do you not fall into having a standardized reaction after all this time too. Yep I that dip this is dementia. This is what somebody you would like you start. Seeing patterns. How do you manage to maintain your not your objectivity but like your perspective and to still show up on an open heart and like you know pour yourself into this particular spot this particular job right here this this family this house.

16:21.92
Kathy Cocks
This might sound kind of cold. My mom said I was the only one in the family that could be a nurse because I was really sad when the pets were sick and then when they died I just moved on. It’s like I have I can be empathetic but I don’t like it doesn’t tear me apart. Emotionally if that makes any sense.

16:39.14
podcomm
Um, yes, no ah, that’s a skill. Yes.

16:41.51
Kathy Cocks
But um, yeah, but the other thing when I go in there is every family is still a little different. You know I’m putting on a hat sometimes I’m sitting down with a pad and I’m like okay this is what I know this what we can do. But Then. Here’s some other resources. They don’t even know anything about So I’m like giving them homework and everyone’s a little different. Yeah, you know everyone’s a little different like I said for my dad it’s working out that he’s going to a senior center someone else they may go to a day care center someone else they may bring help in home. So All of them are a little bit different. There’s ah.

16:59.40
podcomm
Yes, here unrelated right now.

17:15.75
Kathy Cocks
Every time there’s a different family dynamic. Sometimes it’s healthy sometimes it’s not healthy. Yeah, sometimes I’m sitting there just praying I’m like I do not know what to say they are arguing around me and I’m just sitting there and so everyone’s different but I will tell you they hug me they call me their angel and that is just like.

17:17.23
podcomm
Not L v.

17:35.67
Kathy Cocks
That’s just there’s no reward for that I mean I would do it for free if I could afford to you know because it’s like just to have somebody. They just like somebody really heard what I said you know I’m trying to talk I can’t find somebody to just sit down and understand it and then give us a little.

17:38.60
podcomm
Um.

17:53.22
Kathy Cocks
Guidance of where do we go next because I I don’t always know every answer but I’m like okay it sounds like maybe you need to talk to a social worker or maybe you need to go see a physical therapist or maybe you need to call the Alzheimer’s Association. You know I kind of start pointing them in directions and get them a little further down the path of. Managing the situation I don’t know if that makes any sense. Okay.

18:14.30
podcomm
I think it makes perfect sense I I was thinking it sounds to me like your superpower was already listening like your superpower was already to be a good listener. So your superpower already was listening and. Now when you’re trying to interview people I think you’re going to have a good time of it because that’s really the secret sauce in interviewing people is to be able to listen and it seems like people are picking up on Kathy as a good listener so when they when they tell you a problem or tell your situation. You’re actually able to hear whether or not. Something that they are asking for a solution is this something where they’re asking just to be seen and acknowledged is this to let them you know sounded out and then that’s um um I don’t wanna say priceless. But that’s that’s rare. That’s a commodity that is super helpful to be able to show up in a space and give that to people. So.

19:06.85
Kathy Cocks
Thank you? Well like I said that it just I don’t know it. It is all different I like when I do that part now I don’t like dealing with Covid you know or all that kind of stuff. Um, yeah, right? You know those kind of things. But.

19:18.00
podcomm
Extra technical complications just for fun right? Yes, also all these details. Yeah.

19:25.70
Kathy Cocks
Um, being able to I love being in the home and I love I’ve always loved teaching so podcast to me, you know when I I did my podcasts I call it knowledge for caregis like really I’m a knowledge person I’m not like this great inspirational person or this great funny person I just.

19:31.80
podcomm
Home.

19:42.18
Kathy Cocks
I can take something really complicated and break it down I’ve always been able to do that So I can say Okay, your family is acting this way because this is the way Dementia people act you know and break it down and teach them. What Dementia really is and then they’re like and it’s they’re not trying to be mean to you. They’re not doing this on purpose you know and just. I Don’t know that’s just very rewarding for me that and then you see the light bulb. Go off? Oh It’s the disease talking and not my real family Member. You know that kind of stuff.

20:12.13
podcomm
Empowering them? Yes, well Kathy as much as I hate to see it I think that’s a good place to stop for this evening. Thank you so much for taking the time it was a pleasure to get a chance to sit down and and actually okay, let’s let’s record a thing. So thanks for taking the time.

20:17.23
Kathy Cocks
Be it The hair bag.

20:25.39
Kathy Cocks
Welcome.