Transcript for "Journey - with Steve Heatherington"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome Steve it’s a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you one of the things I love is when we do that little column response hello you do get to sense that there is a bit of a delay. We’re talking basically across the entire ocean I love miracles of modern technology. So I just.

00:01.74
Steve H
I am Steve Steve Hetherington

00:19.65
podcomm
Sometimes you get the little column response delay just shows off. There is a little lag and today we do a little precall on each one of these where Steve and I have been talking for a few minutes and a little different Today. We’re also recording an entire video of the whole thing. What I do before and what I do after so there’s this extra video camera making me nervous I don’t know about you. But before we were talking what shall we talk about and Steve’s idea which I love was to talk about the journey the the journey of podcasting so Steve’s journey and then his insights on it. So Steve is both a podcaster and also an alpaca shepherd and there’s lots of connections. His podcast one of them is about alpacas and he’s also spending a ton of time putting together something called the pod buffet and he’s also a coach within the akimbo course the podcasting workshop. So super super in podcasting. He’s also got his own business talking about. The fact that we all believe podcasting works. So. There’s lots of things but it’s all around podcasting. So when Steve said let’s talk about the journey I was like yeah I think that’s a good place to go. So do you need a specific question you want to just start talking about the journey.

01:28.12
Steve H
No I can I can I can talk podcasting all day I can talk I can talk Alpacas all day as Well. I’m a man of enthusiasms I think so it was an interesting Originally the workshop. Email appeared or I saw the the details somewhere anyway and I thought oh perfect. This is just what my wife needs and she was I know so so so this was ah she was the process of writing a book and we were talking about.

01:54.22
podcomm
Try to make me smart for my drink. But.

02:05.34
Steve H
Ah, podcast would be a great way to promote the book so that was that was what we’re going to do and oh no, she didn’t have capacity to do writing the book and doing the podcast. So how about I did the course I learned how to do the podcast and then we can I can help her do the podcast for her book which we still haven’t quite finished yet. We’re still working on.

02:06.96
podcomm
Moon. Um.

02:25.22
Steve H
It’s still ah, still still an idea meanwhile two and half years on I’ve been podcasting and and then moved into the coaching and all that kind of stuff as well. So um, yeah, it was a fairly something I’ve been interested in I realized that going way way back. Adam Curry and the the early days when it was kind of something else that wasn’t podcasting was before before there was ah an ipod so there was no podcast. Um, yeah, and and I was listening to stuff then way way back. Um, and really enjoying it and and thinking about.

02:49.19
podcomm
And just sling in audio Files right.

03:00.59
Steve H
Or can I get involved in that it didn’t quite happen at the time but a little play with bits and pieces. But so I’ve listened to things and been aware of podcasts right from the start and then there was this opportunity to to learn about it and it just oh, There’s a spot in here that says that’s for me. Um, and it was a bit like that with the Alpacas as Well. There’s something in there that says oh this is my shaped thing. This is an expression of me I didn’t know that so I didn’t realize I was an Alpaca shepherd I’d never had the opportunity to be a shepherd before ah we’d had a dog I’d had a tampster when I was a kid.

03:28.23
podcomm
Um.

03:38.40
podcomm
Um, that’s a steep learning hamster dog. How many alpaca do you have 37 yeah oh yeah, if you if you get on calls with if you get on calls list theses looking out the window checking on pregnant alpaca.

03:38.62
Steve H
But it’s not quite the so it’s not… It’s not quite the same thing absolutely but but it always it all. Yeah I know 37 now. Plus Plus let me look out the window just to be sure. Yeah, no, we’re okay, 37 Still, we’ve got a bunch of pregnant females. Ah, ah. Yeah.

03:58.20
podcomm
So there’s definitely an aspect of serendipity or you know like from the outside it looks like well that was just dumb luck. But really, there’s ah you know you yourself pointed out. There’s this previous interest that you had and then well yeah when when I buy. You you know my new car. Oh look at all the cars they look just like it. It’s like that positive reinforcement that observation or what do they call that ah confirmation bias where you start to see things your mind picks up on things which are relevant to what you were interested in so how long did it take you so you you went in. The podcasting course first just as a student like I’m going to do the thing. How long did it take you as you were going through the course the course runs about seven weeks of lessons and then there’s like a 6 or seven week when it runs four months let’s say how far in there did you get before you realize that you might want to actually be helping other people podcast.

04:34.87
Steve H
Um, yeah.

04:51.78
Steve H
Oh interesting. Yeah, um, it was very much I was focused on mean as I said was from my oh I’m doing this for my wife. Um, oh no, no I’ve got to come up with a title well like what? Okay so I’ve got to come up with a podcast. So first lesson. So so I.

04:52.17
podcomm
Did you make it all the way through or.

05:02.93
podcomm
Um, that’s like the first lesson right.

05:10.50
Steve H
Developed this thing and it was something I’d been thinking about anyway in terms of a business and an idea and a something beyond because we’ve got the herd and the catchment area people can travel to to us here geographically but the idea of Alpaca tribe which is the name of the podcast but also the kind of the business idea was to be much bigger than that.

05:27.15
podcomm
M.

05:29.10
Steve H
Ah, not not fixed to a geographical location. Um, and yeah, so the podcast has done that and the other side of the business hasn’t really um, grown as much but it was this thing of how do we build something. That’s that’s going to make sense. For me and as I was going I I engaged with a lot of people. That’s the nature of the workshop. Ah so the the feedback and all that kind of stuff but I hadn’t really thought of helping other people other than the people in the workshop at that time of helping other people until afterwards and then the next time round I was invited to be.

05:50.80
podcomm
Right.

06:07.26
Steve H
Um, a helper on the workshop and I can’t remember what you called them then it might have been a remarkable Well I’m not sure I think I think it went through iterations. So I think it was remarkables first and then it went back somehow it it switched over to being all stars and then has now gone back to being remarkables Anyway, these are people who’ve been through the workshop.

06:07.90
podcomm
Um, right I think they were weren’t they they were all stars originally.

06:19.30
podcomm
All starts.

06:26.54
Steve H
And therefore can be sign posters and people who know what’s what’s going on. Yeah yeah, yeah.

06:28.67
podcomm
Yeah, show up and this is how we do things and here’s what the culture is like cool. Um, and then so that’s pod so well back in the day they were called Tpf the podcasting fellowship So that’s Tpf Two I met you in.

06:40.90
Steve H
Pod Two Yeah Tpf Yeah yep.

06:46.30
podcomm
3 I was in t pf three and my journey is a little different I had already been podcasting for a couple of years just sort of like doing everything not that I was like super human but I just did it all I don’t know was just try this. That was good enough so I came in with a oo an opportunity to like rip it all apart and start all over. So I knew what my title was supposed to be. But actually I changed the title of my podcast when I was in the course so I came at it from a different starting different set of starting blocks. But I did all the same things I I explored the questions and I interacted with people and I didn’t even make it all the way through. Pod three before they were asking me to become an allstar so was like I’m doing both at the same time. Um, how far did you get like how did you get from I’m going to make a podcast called alpaca tribe and how far did you get before you realize just what you had committed to like.

07:22.50
Steve H
Yeah.

07:39.50
podcomm
This podcasting just eats your face right? So how far did you get before you went I mistakes were made.

07:44.86
Steve H
Um I think it was He was a couple of days into the workshop. Really I said so because because I I kind of okay I’m all in and so I spent hours and hours I Just want to check My wife isn’t listening at this point.

07:55.83
podcomm
Okay I would say.

08:02.40
Steve H
She doesn’t know how just how much how many hours I spent in those that first week um and I was just really hungry to to know but also wanted to engage with the process and interacting with people and and liking posts and and trying to help um and it’s kind of a. Was going to say it was a mindset. It’s it’s more than a mindset It’s kind of just ah, it’s a direction that I face in almost everything I do I’m I’m looking for ways to help so that was yeah it grew into being this big thing in terms of the the time commitment and then you start doing the work because it’s. Not just the title or you need to you need the foundations of the title and what’s it for who’s it for why? Why? me? what have I got to offer or we we’ve we’ve got the whole thing of we won’t go there too much but the whole thing of the imposter syndrome. That says why me well precisely I agree why you.

08:44.56
podcomm
Um, yeah, yeah.

08:54.82
podcomm
Yeah I still have that I’m so like who do listen to any of these things I record but I just tell myself. Yeah, yes, yes.

08:59.71
Steve H
Yeah, no, you’re onto it. You’re onto a good thing when that happens the resistance is is an indicator and therefore you need to engage with that and find a way through it round it over it. Whatever to get past it and it comes back and sneaks up on you in an unusual. Times I found that that some of my inviting guests and that kind of stuff I’m really struck why am I I do this I’ve done it before why am I struggling with this? um and you just got to kind of look and revisit the the things so that’s all part of the the process and the journey that I was was talking about I was just thinking this morning 2 years 3 two and a half years

09:23.61
podcomm
Yeah.

09:37.45
Steve H
On Um I feel just about ready to start learning about being a podcaster now and I find I was thinking how often does that happen. Well fairly regularly.

09:42.34
podcomm
Um X Amen I’m with you yes day one.

09:50.95
Steve H
And it’s almost you know is it every 30 episodes or something what what is is there ah is there a measurable thing that says after a certain length of time you can expect this thing’s going to come back again. But I think it’s a process of recognizing that you know what to do? you know that press record I just checking have you got a flashing red light somewhere. Can see I can we’ve already got I don’t know I know I know I know but I can’t I can’t help god help it and I’ve just remembered I’m not supposed to press the red button. That’s okay so.

10:10.96
podcomm
That’s the I’m like dude you’re on the other side of the table today. It’s all on me.

10:19.46
podcomm
Yeah, there is a red blanking button for those of you watching on the video. It’s over here on the corner of my screen 10 minutes 26 seconds keep going.

10:24.76
Steve H
Yeah, and for me the thing that shows that it is recording is I can see the waveforms. Oh hello waveforms there. They are so what was I saying now. So yeah, so this process of of revisiting you know I know enough about the nuts and bolts to do this.

10:30.60
podcomm
Yes.

10:44.30
Steve H
So how can I up the game now. How can I do it better? Um I Need you start off sorry.

10:44.38
podcomm
Um, do you think the journey. No, it’s fine. Do you think the journey would would have been different for you or might be different for others. Based on the format that they do first so alpaca tribe is host on Mike everybody should know what that is and it’s like 1 person talking. It’s a host with it’s it isn’t I thought most of what you’ were doing was host on mike whoops oh oh no mate. Okay, so I haven’t been listening recently. I’m sorry.

10:58.52
Steve H
Um, oh it’s not no oh it is but it was when I started. It was all interviews. No, no well recently it has all been host on Mike all this and and I’m and I need to go back to having more people on for Interviews. So This is part of my by by revisiting what?? What’s why? Why am I doing this.

11:16.29
podcomm
Ah, that’s oh I’m so confused.

11:23.42
podcomm
Um, what’s what’s the difference for you internally I mean I know the difference screen host of mic versus interviews but like why do you think that there’s that difference between the 2 formats like what is what are the 2 formats do to you or for you and how how is what they do for you.

11:39.10
Steve H
Um, yeah, they are quite different. They they demand different things of you if are you doing host on mic is just you. What are you going to say what you can interact with people and have a conversation.

11:42.80
podcomm
Personally different.

11:55.33
podcomm
On on.

11:56.99
Steve H
Ah, but it’s just you So how do you have that conversation. You got to know what you want to say where you want to go with it and and I’ve found that I need to script things and some things I need to script in quite a lot of detail and then I’ve got to read the script in a way that sounds like I’m just talking that’s that’s a whole another skill. But.

12:09.57
podcomm
Oh that’s hard. Yes.

12:15.79
Steve H
But Also I’ve just recently revisited the whole thing. What is this about what am I trying to do Okay so the Apaca tribe podcast is that the the reason for that is to have ah to encourage or to help Alpaca owners who probably only got a few Alpacas lot less than me. But ah. Only got a few alpackers help them to be confident and um so what’s it. But What’s my little phrase and I can’t remember to be confident and um, no confidence come second you see there are this is that this is my reason for being and I can’t even remember it.

12:52.61
podcomm
I Feel your pain like if you ask me to like drop kick my vision and mission statement I’m like um I need my crib notes.

13:01.37
Steve H
Okay, to be confident and fulfilled owners of happy and healthy Alpacas This is it. How do you help help people. Oh ages I strip stripped it I put words in stripped them out pulled it pulled it around.

13:05.80
podcomm
Um, yes, how long did it take you to write that because I want to make people. Yes, so my podcast starts with.

13:19.87
Steve H
And then reversed it I got 2 sentences and I reversed it.

13:22.56
podcomm
Yes, my podcast has a little thing that I say every time and I I probably spent you know three weeks on that like three 40 hour weeks working on 2 sentences that are at the front and I just want other people to understand like yes, that’s part of the journey if you haven’t I mean I’m sorry if you. Picked the really easy description and it was been working for you and now I don’t want to make you feel like you have to spend all that time but that to me is like my north star like in the middle of the conversations. Limbs I’ll be thinking I’m supposed to be talking to people about you know and it runs to my head and then it tells me where to go but sorry I interrupted you.

13:44.89
Steve H
Yeah.

13:51.58
Steve H
Yeah, no, no, that’s absolutely right? and it it is this thing that you go back to it and you go back to and say am I doing that from the start am I doing that in the middle have I have I achieved that and and you can’t if you just got 1 question. You’re answering one 1 problem that you’re. Addressing. You’ve got to make sure it’s a big problem and it’s an interesting problem because otherwise you’re going to get bored and you’re going to run out of things to say particularly if it’s host on Mike because it’s just you talking. So what am I going to do this week. Well and I’ve found that I’ve the other thing which really feeds into this is’ve who’s your audience.

14:13.77
podcomm
Brave.

14:28.38
podcomm
Ray.

14:30.37
Steve H
I’ve found that I’ve got 2 audiences I’ve got people who like the stories that I tell about the alpacas oh this is Millie she’s the matriarch of the herd of the females and and this and she’s just like this and oh she did this today. All those kind of things people love that. But that’s not is is that part of helping people to be confident. And you know sort of satisfied things. Yeah, but there are some people who listening to my ah my my podcast have gone off and bought land bought alpacas and have started keep started which is incredibly ah.

14:52.18
podcomm
I’ve heard you talk about this before should I split my whole project into 2 pieces or should I do different kinds of episodes I find.

15:04.55
podcomm
Um, well that works out.

15:08.76
Steve H
I Hope hope I said the right things. Um, so they need the practical Stuff. So So I try and meld the things together. So I’m telling the stories and as an aside at this particular point because this is what our packers do and this is why and this is how we should interact with them. That makes them feel safe which means they’re not going to spit out you because they don’t sp you have to work really hard to make an Alpaca spit at you. You’re doing something wrong if they’re spitting at you So Um, or they’re very pregnant like because yeah, that’s another yeah, all the hormones and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

15:38.75
podcomm
Yeah, the getaway right? get away from me. Yeah I I was just that was just thinking I interviewed a painter I think he’s episode 2 in my podcasting journey and he was talking about something similar where we were.

15:45.22
Steve H
So yeah to.

15:55.24
podcomm
Talking in the context of parkor which is a movement activity and and he was relating how painting is very much like parkor for him in that he picks something with every painting project that scares the crap out of him and then tries to do it and that’s what a lot of people who do parkor. Do they try to find not necessarily like a deadly dangerous challenge but something that scares them.

16:06.64
Steve H
M.

16:13.82
podcomm
Makes them a little nervous and then they work on that. How do I approach it. How do I get better and I’m thinking I’ve been thinking recently in the past months that I didn’t originally think that I was a creative person in the artistic sense and now I’m like no I get stuck on podcasting and it feels like. Blank canvas problem that paintris talk about where it’s like and I think it’s Stephen Pressfield wrote a blog post is is just covered the canvas like just get something up there so you’re not looking at a blank canvas. So in the podcasting metaphor that would be like press record and lay down 20 minutes of talking to yourself and see what you think of. That host on Mike and then maybe write more or before we were mentioning the energy different energies from the different formats of podcasting and I’ve done stuff where I’ve had multiple people miced up and that’s fun because then you can I can just kind of like sit back and like land but they just they do the thing on their own and I’m just like present.

16:50.67
Steve H
M.

17:07.32
podcomm
Um, and then these are fun because you and I can get energy from each other but host on Mic is more challenging. You have to like do that to come come to the mic with all the energy yourself and super challenging will that be awkward.

17:14.22
Steve H
Yeah, so you have to have somebody sit sat there opposite you when when you’re doing host on Mike not not not a real, not real one. but but ah who is this person that you’re talking to? um so I was on a call with somebody the other day and they were saying.

17:25.32
podcomm
Ah.

17:30.71
Steve H
That they have 5 people on their bookshelf that they face their bookshelf when they’re doing. They’re doing their recording and there are kind of like 5 different people that they’re kind of talking to and and you think oh yeah, well who are mine and that is my problem sometimes I think I’m talking to people who want to hear the stories.

17:34.40
podcomm
Right? Yeah avatars for different rain.

17:48.19
Steve H
And sometimes I think I’m talking to people who’ve got Alpacas and sometimes people who like the fleece and are never going to have Alpacas of their own. Um, so it’s all this kind of who who is this for again. What am what am I trying to do so you need to revisit that regularly I think and at the same time you kind of go you know I could do something.

17:53.83
podcomm
Um, yeah.

18:08.30
Steve H
Bigger and better and more powerful. Oh that’s going to take more time more effort and it’s going to be hard work I know I’m just going to have a conversation with somebody because it’s easy I can do that and you’ve got to find the balance of doing the thing that’s easy and doing the thing that’s better.

18:18.47
podcomm
Now.

18:26.65
Steve H
And you need to push yourself like you’re saying find something. That’s a little bit scary a little bit on the edge. How can I go further with that whether it’s an interview whether it’s scripting something that says okay I’m very clear now and I’ve just started doing things differently putting putting marks on my script which give me this is the place you need to do an emphasis.

18:40.61
podcomm
Yeah, accent this slow down speed. Yeah yeah, yeah.

18:44.66
Steve H
This is the place where you can take a breath this and and all those kind of things So I’ve just the last couple of weeks I’ve been working with a new set of markings and a new app that I use to to help me with that and it’s really great I’m and I’m enjoy that. Oh it’s a new shiny thing. That’s that’s that oh we have that problem. Don’t we.

18:58.48
podcomm
Yeah, well that be that be a tool that would have been yo God but that would be a tool that would be way too much to introduce like in someone’s second week like ah eventually you’re going to need this like um, but it it shows that like the fact that you’re using the tool now shows that you are still curious about.

19:02.91
Steve H
Tech and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

19:17.18
podcomm
I don’t know what’s over the next hill sort of you know, conceptual exploration I was just thinking. You’re very much someone like in podcasting circles. You’re very much someone like figuratively standing on the next hill going. Oh oh come here. Check this out. You know what nothing thing went oh okay, well with the name I and say oh you all right? That’s pretty cool and then like oh he’s on the next hill already. So I’m I’m wondering are there when you look back on your journey like soup to nuts two and a half years is there anything along the way where I wish someone had asked me the following question at some point to like that would have been a really good.

19:51.55
Steve H
Um, I think when I was trying to work out 1 of the things we did in the workshop was talking about what is the change that I’m trying to make.

19:51.58
podcomm
Breadcrumb earlier.

20:09.39
Steve H
Ah, different way of framing that which I came across in the last month as I was it’s probably longer ago but it’s it’s recent was what’s the what’s the thing that’s broken that I’d like to help fix. What’s the thing that. I can see is a problem that I can engage with and not tell people how to do it but can say hey I think this could be different. Why didn’t you come with me and we’ll try and work out how to make it better and different and so that’s that I think was something that this thing of. You know who’s it for but what’s it for what’s the why the why comes before the how that’s thats but that’s you know you need to know why you’ve got to got to keep coming back to that bedrock. This is why I’m doing this particular one and if it’s not quite yeah start another podcast if it’s if you’ve got a different question.

20:52.83
podcomm
Um, yeah.

21:07.80
Steve H
And you can’t fit it into what you’re currently doing start another one. Ah but don’t start them all at once. But yeah, so so that thing of of having a north star that you mentioned earlier and having that thing of this is the issue. This is the thing that’s big enough that I can talk about for years. Because it’s a fundamental problem issue of something that needs to be changed and I’d like to be part of the thing that changes that so that’s that’s kind of the foundation thing I think would be would have been a good question for me to have engaged with earlier.

21:43.62
podcomm
That’s sort I think that’s a great point. A great question. Damn well Steve um, that’s a great place to stop. It’s always a pleasure to get to hang out with you and talk and we we’ve been on a million calls I don’t think we’ve ever recorded anything like this before we’ve been on recorded calls before but so cool.

21:52.41
Steve H
Um, thank you.

22:01.15
podcomm
Um I will just say thanks so much for taking the time today and that’s all I have to say terrific.

22:07.00
Steve H
Great. Thank you very much being pleasure bye for now.