Transcript for "Intuition - with Curtis Cates"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine Curtis

00:01.32
Curtis
Oh there I’m Curtis Cates and I get 3 podcasts that I want to plug but I’m not going to say the names of them right now. no no no I’m not going to say him right now. no no. no no

00:09.74
podcomm
Plug them plug them plug them now. This is your show who wait a minute story arc is this the thing there’s 3 really cool podcasts that you have to oh wait. Sorry this isn’t the part where we say this? Oh right right? My notes say well’ll put those on the end. Thank you for reminding me Curtis okay don’ let me forget that? um.

00:25.97
Curtis
Exactly yes and.

00:28.96
podcomm
For having a blast so we went like 13 minutes and I’m like hey this is cool and all well we need to press record. But yeah, it’s on their record. Um, it’s actually just the giant gimmick I really just delete all these they don’t actually get published I’ve often thought I’ve thought about doing that how far could I get.

00:33.63
Curtis
Oh no, oh we actually have to like put this on like on the record. Oh no, no no all right.

00:48.42
podcomm
Making a podcast like doing everything except publishing the work like you know could it be like a year and you have like a hundred episodes people are so like well I know it’s coming out soon. You know when you’re all done. You just.

00:58.73
Curtis
Craig this this is it’s very avantgarde of you goodness gracious this whoa this is you know this? this would be like Andy Worhol’s 30 hour or 13 hour video of the empire stbing. Awesome.

01:03.19
podcomm
Um, holy crap. Yeah yes, dude did you just use Andy Warhol’s name.

01:15.43
Curtis
Awesome.

01:19.38
podcomm
Within fifty feet of anything I’ve ever done. Holy you know that’s a compliment if you can look at if you can look at my shit show and somehow that train of thought leads you to Andy Warhol yes I’m just going to turn the mic off episode 47 I think this is done um Curtis.

01:22.50
Curtis
Well, you’re the one that came up with us I do. Already well done.

01:36.18
podcomm
It is a mad pleasure to get a chance to talk to you I think I have bumped into you in a couple of the monthly. The big podcaster calls a David Dobin scheme like I’ve seen you in a couple things I don’t think we were in the same course together. But um, anyway, thanks for taking a risk and showing up for my crazy. Ah, so before we started recording. Um I asked people you know then we just like just like like a siren we like wind it up and we started talking. We’re laughing. We’re having fun and I asked you about I basically just say to people. What’s the first thing that comes to mind when I say. Podcasting and then we talk about that for a few minutes and it didn’t take us I’ve said this before took you about 2 sentences to get to things where I was like whoa I want to talk about that so you started by talking about talking out of your talking out of your hat talking through your hat and.

02:25.27
Curtis
Talking about my hat. No no, no, no, you’re talking. That’s the wrong end of the anatomy for goodness sakes The yes.

02:29.97
podcomm
Ah, ah, trying to be nice and then you you started um you and I spun off talking about personality types. So I’m still have the imposter syndrome people show up on the show and you’re like you’re really good at this and I’m like no I’m not.

02:48.61
Curtis
Yeah, I’m not so sure you that good I come on come on come on what spit it out come on.

02:49.82
podcomm
And you ah awesome. Awesome! good. Not knocking down a pay. Um I consider myself to be an introvert most people don’t believe me but I think you do because you out of yourself as a professional extrovert. So.

03:04.48
Curtis
Yes.

03:07.36
podcomm
Okay, here comes an actual question words in the sentences putting. Um, you mentioned that you use the display of extroversion when you’re teaching when you were teaching that that you can do that. It’s like a show and I’m I’m I’m not a teacher in that context. But yeah I can totally do that Be the class clown I got it? What is it.

03:16.23
Curtis
M.

03:27.30
podcomm
That you actually wanted to do when you started into podcasting because I’m guessing it wasn’t to do like an extroverted show.

03:33.40
Curtis
Oh My God I wanted to be an extrovert I Just want people to know what I got something to say God Damn it and it no I’d I’ve I’ve been blogging for I don’t know 20 years and whatever the hell that was and I wanted to. Do my blog as a voice thingy but way back when the the technology wasn’t there and when it.

03:56.13
podcomm
Um.

04:03.74
Curtis
Came out at first came out. It was expensive as hell. These guys were like yeah we can put your voice on online. Yeah sure. Yeah that’s only like $56 a month or $56 a week. We can do that for you and I’m like yeah right, give me a break and that’s the way it was so yeah I like the idea of. I thought yeah putting out my blog as like a ah podcast would be really quick and easy. Yeah.

04:26.69
podcomm
Why didn’t it. Why didn’t it work not the tech. Why didn’t it work but like why didn’t it work.

04:32.30
Curtis
Um, no so what do you mean? Why didn’t it why he didn’t know. Yeah.

04:35.14
podcomm
Ah, so so you didn’t do it right? like you, You don’t have a podcast which is right? So What about what is it about blogging that Maybe there’s a couple ways to ask this question. What is it about blogging that didn’t convert to podcast Format. Or what didn’t you like about the podcast once you started making you know Audio blogs.

04:54.74
Curtis
Oh so once I started I mean for goodness 6 I found that right away. There’s a big difference between the written word and the spoken word. There’s no question and when I do my podcast I have to write them out word for word because when I try to wing it.

05:13.56
podcomm
Ah.

05:14.74
Curtis
Forget it and so it’s funny because I was listening to you and Fred talking about like winging it and yeah, um, and listening to you guys go like host on like oh my god it’s so hard. It’s like yes, it’s hard but the hard part is writing out the thing this morning just by synchronicity.

05:20.76
podcomm
Um.

05:34.70
Curtis
I was reading an interview with Leo Steinberg Leo Steinberg who was an extraordinary art critic from like the sixty s seventy s ah and he’s one of the most influential art critics in America for like forever. And he’s the first thing he’s saying in this this interview. He’s like I don’t do interviews because I sock at them. Oh my god I I have to when I was a teacher I had to write out every word of my lectures because I just couldn’t wing it and I totally got that and the reason is.

06:01.85
podcomm
On.

06:11.73
Curtis
Because he was probably just like me what they call an I nfp an introverted intuitive feeling perceptive person and this is like ridiculous Myers-briggs stuff but I nf ps throughout history suck at crafting. An argument a logical argument. We can’t get our thoughts straight because they’re going in 16 different directions at the same time and that’s that’s the that’s the deal with I nfps ints the intuitive thinkers. they’ spot on or and.

06:32.25
podcomm
M.

06:39.89
podcomm
A great point That’s a good point.

06:50.99
Curtis
Whatever the hell those the other guys the thinking sensit guys. Whatever those are the those are the yeah, the logical people they did. They’re just like oh they got an argument. They’re the lawyers. You know they got the argument straight they can tie you in knots with their arguments but nfps were like.

06:52.20
podcomm
Um, yeah, the other 16

07:00.63
podcomm
Um.

07:10.11
Curtis
My God we’re all over the place. So that’s that was my thing about personality.

07:15.21
podcomm
But are you are you still blogging are you is It is that still working for you.

07:18.68
Curtis
Oh yeah, so I so I still do like the essentially I do my podcasts as a blog and so I I put out the the transcripts for them. But I write out these transcripts like as a script.

07:33.48
podcomm
Right? It’s It’s more like a screenplay right.

07:37.75
Curtis
Yeah, exactly and and for the for this one podcast that I do which is called the Hansel and Gretel code which is all about my intuitive interpretation of Hansel and Gretel and the depth of meaning in the metaphors. It takes me a good sometimes two to three months to finish

07:56.61
podcomm
Holy crap.

07:56.79
Curtis
A single script. Yeah yeah because the arguments are so like they’re they’re within me and they’re like jumping out of me but they’re all over the place and to rein them in and to make them intelligible.

08:09.18
podcomm
Um, give me the name of the podcast again. So I can write it down.

08:14.34
Curtis
It’s called the Hansel and Grettel code and I’ve been researching this this fairy tale for the last ten years no I’m I’m

08:15.54
podcomm
Code. Please please tell me the podcast is published if you just set me up for a thing that’s coming soon. I’m going to be grumpy.

08:28.90
Curtis
I’m working on episode on episode 15 right now and episode 15 is almost ready to publish. It’s close. No.

08:29.26
podcomm
Oh okay, just as long as there’s something I can start on look if you just set me up I’m going to be like well played Curtis well played.

08:39.97
Curtis
Um, that would be weird though. It’s like um, why would no no, no, no, no, no, no episode 15 I I’ve actually written the entire book. But as I was going through it. It’s like no no, you can’t read this stuff.

08:53.60
podcomm
Um, yeah, well, there’s so we all talk everybody talks about we all know about the magic of storytelling right? So um, yeah, so when you win 1

08:55.43
Curtis
Nobody’s going to want to read it like out loud here listen to it out loud.

09:03.32
Curtis
Yes.

09:11.83
podcomm
Reads a book. You’re basically telling yourself a story but but there’s like this magical I love Carl Sagan’s point about humans can work magic. It’s basically like somebody who is probably long dead wrote this stuff down I read it and boop they their ideas appear in my head that’s a magnificent magic trick and I think.

09:25.91
Curtis
As Henry Henry Miller said something very similar. Yes and he’s like I’m talking to you reader now and I love Henry Miller Carl Sagan I can do without because he’s more logical but Henry.

09:30.52
podcomm
Wow whoo I’m a quote not I’m gonna look that up see if Henry yeah, it’s not the fourth wall. What wall is that that we’re breaking yeah and read yes, ah yeah, okay.

09:45.49
Curtis
Henry is yes, he’s a sweetheart.

09:49.51
podcomm
Ah, quite I wouldn’t I would right? um see normally what people can’t see is I am I’m sure Curtis can tell I’m taking notes and mostly it’s just I do have like a way that I try to collect some of the ideas out of these for my own personal like I trying to hold on to them a little bit. Um, but I’m also so I have to search for the title like what’s the title of the show. And on this one I’m not writing what I should be writing instead I’m writing like remember to mention this other person that I need to intruce to Curtis and go look out like all the wrong notes they’re like oh oh well, it’s fine. What up possibly wrong? Um I was the I mentioned are you still doing your blog because i’m. Wondering I was going to ask but the question is now mood. How has the podcast affected what you’re writing on your blog. The answer is it turned into what is going out on your blog have you have you gotten any sense for has um, has what you’ve been.

10:34.70
Curtis
Absolutely.

10:44.97
podcomm
Ah, okay, in case, the listeners are keeping track. That’s one podcast show out of 3 that has been named now so thinking about all 3 of these podcast shows can you tell whether they have affected like how you present yourself in the world like if you’re a classical Introvert then you. You kind of have to like put on the show like I put I call it my person suit I can put on my person suit and go socialize I can be the extrovert have you found that what you’ve done in your podcasts has made it easier or enabled you to do different things or do things better when you’re out you know, socializing.

11:07.50
Curtis
Who.

11:21.53
Curtis
That’s that’s a great question Craig but you know what the answer is no no no I have that hasn’t happened I I cannot like become more extroverted in public I can’t even put on that thing without like ah being terrified.

11:24.00
podcomm
No, you haven’t thought about it or no it hasn’t helped.

11:36.50
podcomm
Are.

11:38.13
Curtis
Talking to people is a little bit terrifying so my other podcast another one of my podcasts called cristo dot art where I go to museums and I have a conversation with artworks I don’t have to talk to a person I talk to the painting. It’s KR I s t o.

11:49.30
podcomm
Um, I think you have to spell that right gonna say that’s got a K in it dot art. Yes mad props by the way for. Thank you for using some of the top level domains out there.

11:57.37
Curtis
Dot art. Yes.

12:04.49
Curtis
There we go yeah and some yeah somebody said that to me once I because I also have http://christo.com and he’s like oh that’s really great. You have a 6 letter. You have a six letter url who well when did that happen.

12:10.64
podcomm
Oh.

12:19.23
podcomm
Um, I used to have an http://ot.com I had a 2 wo-letter domain name. Ah yeah I I always win that game I mean I don’t have it anymore. But yeah, that was that was the thing I mean I’m sorry I derailed.

12:23.12
Curtis
Oh my God All right? Okay, all right mad props to you That’s that it that is yes.

12:36.35
podcomm
Cristo dot art where you go and have a conversation with artwork. Do they do They do you actually do you do it in the gallery.

12:37.65
Curtis
Yes, yes, yeah, so I so I talk to myself you know about the work and then I go home and then I like I haven’t done it in a year because the yeah the covid business and art and the museum business. But um, then I have to like sort of goose it up and I have these other thoughts that I can write about and so I do that particular part but no I cannot like just although when I’m in a museum. I’m more likely to jump in front of somebody while I’m and standing in front of a painting and there they come close and I say hey say what do you think about this I can be more extroverted in a museum than anywhere else on the face of the earth because I feel most at home in a museum I feel like that’s.

13:32.12
podcomm
Why why.

13:32.35
Curtis
That’s my living room. That’s my space because I love the art and I feel so comfortable with the art. Oh my God of could be anything could be anything sculpture old stuff. New stuff. Whatever.

13:39.98
podcomm
Wait is it is it all art. Is it modern art is it what? ah.

13:51.81
Curtis
But I did I did a couple of years at the art institute in Chicago sort of part time while I was doing other things and I felt like just being in the art institute was like being at home I have never felt as at home there as.

14:05.80
podcomm
Um.

14:11.64
Curtis
Did when I was in like undergraduate in I went to school in italy back in the 70 s I spent my year. My seventy s my twenty s in this in italy and I felt at home there and that’s where I started getting interested in art. but but museums

14:24.85
podcomm
Mean.

14:31.58
Curtis
Um, my God museums are just a treat for me and I think people are intimidated by art unfortunately intimidated by art because they think it has to mean something or that they don’t understand people have told them.

14:43.27
podcomm
Yeah, they have to figure it out right? like I don’t understand the um the point is that the point is not to understand all the point Grammar. The point isn’t to understand the point is to. Interact like tooth I don’t know to think Well, what’s the point of a museum That’s a better idea. What’s the point of art.

15:00.40
Curtis
Yeah, right? Well so let me tell you it is to the understand there. There is ah there’s an understanding there. But that’s where intuition comes in your intuition understands art better than your logical mind. Does.

15:15.20
podcomm
Ooh That’s an excellent point and and you did talk about intuition at the very beginning possibly before we were recording.

15:20.49
Curtis
Um, so your intuition does not speak in words your intuition actually speaks in metaphor and it speaks in visual. It could also be aural but it did.

15:29.34
podcomm
Um, yeah, it doesn’t necessarily work and like when you you’re saying speak but you don’t necessarily mean language speak you mean communicate in imagery communicate in feeling and color and whatever. Yeah.

15:39.18
Curtis
Exactly exactly it. It communicates. Yes yes, and yeah, so it’s like oh my God most people just have never been given the gift of being able to like. Enjoy art the way they could and that that’s what art’s not what art school is for is it’s what art appreciation is all about but art appreciation has become this like really ugly thing like hey you got to learn I’d appreciate art.

16:12.21
podcomm
Cliche you muggle. Ah no get out of my way I’m trying to look at the painting. Oh man.

16:16.31
Curtis
Don’t you appreciate it? Yeah exactly and it’s like no, you don’t appreciate. You don’t understand what thell you’re talking about there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, that’s why I was reading Leo Steinberg this morning because he was a great intuitive art appreciator and I didn’t. I’ve only read a few things from Leo Steinberg before and it’s like they I was in a bad context. But this morning it just hit me. It’s like oh Leo. No wonder you’re an intuitive feeling person. You know my wow holy smokes.

16:42.38
podcomm
Um.

16:50.26
podcomm
Ah, so many this is where I pause and the guests think my video is locked up and it’s my brain just going. Yeah, which of those hundred threads do I pull on um, ah.

17:04.10
Curtis
Ah, you got an intuitive thread. You’ve got an intuitive mind there too like you’re seeing all bunch of threads. Yes.

17:07.33
podcomm
Yeah, like at the moment like my I’m so meta my brain over you know? um what I’m wondering is I’m torn between going further with art I’m torn between I think what I want to do like you know, looking at the clock tick.

17:24.56
Curtis
Ah.

17:26.72
podcomm
Dig more into host on Mic versus I don’t like the word interviews interviews conversations like the different things that were that we can do with audio as a medium underneath the umbrella of podcast and I’m just wondering if you.

17:34.67
Curtis
Conversations.

17:45.46
podcomm
If you think like what advice might you have for so I’m very much an intuitive conversationalist like and by this point if you still think I’m an ego to disk you cra right? It’s like I don’t have any idea what I’m doing I’m just yeah, it’s just the Craig show I don’t mean like the Craig Podcast show I just mean like this is what Craig does when he interacts with people.

17:52.61
Curtis
So.

18:05.28
podcomm
And I’m wondering if somebody out there is more on the um, the side where you are where they very much like to ah create the podcast like in their workshop. They want to craft it. They want a wordsmith they want to do a thing and then they want to like release it. What are things that that maybe you’ve experienced that have made it easier for you to like make that process Simpler you know, like like you know there’s some taglines like just ship it or like things that you can help things that you could share that would help those people get better at. And’t want to say make them be an extrovert but like you know how can they be better at bringing others into their work like instead if it’s all just me host on Mike. How can I occasionally bring in a guest. What kind of guest might be a good place for me to start trying that type of work see what I’m see what I’m fishing for like.

18:58.53
Curtis
I’m not sure exactly what you’re fishing for but what I would say is that I I’ve actually got a an interview lined up for like in a couple of weeks about art. Ah, and it’s. And I’m sort of looking forward to trying that and seeing what happens there and then my initial idea was to actually go to museum with someone else and have a conversation with them about art of. I I don’t I don’t know how to make that any easier like to to have a conversation with another person about stuff like that because like I said I’m ah I’m a lousy interviewer. Oh my god you you.

19:46.18
podcomm
Um, I wonder if it’s the challenge of um so one of the things that I am particularly good at is not losing multiple trains of thought so like I can I can be present in the conversation with you while still remembering Mike Tech and audio levels and watching the clock tick at 20 minutes and 3 seconds like all that stuff. I can like hold those multiple layers and what if when you went to the museum somebody else was tasked with putting the headphones on and holding the microphones and doing the gobbledyook crap crud and like moving through the room and doing all the hard stuff and you just had the conversation. You don’t have to do anything else would that make it easier.

20:21.99
Curtis
Um I don’t think it would make it any easier for like my feelings about the stuff that I was coming out of my mouth I’ve seen guys do that some some very um, fairly well-known art critics. Do that have done that in New York and and they’ve got their stuff on Youtube. And I listen to them and I watch them and I go like I’m not I don’t like what they’re doing but I love the fact that somebody’s there videotaping doing all of the the techie stuff and the techie stuff is like yeah the techie stuff as its has its its learning curve and it’s it’s got. To be done with but the techie stuff is not the important part for me, it’s it’s really the ideas. The ideas have to flow and they’ve got to be communicable. You can so I can stay old goodness. There’s I don’t know if you’re familiar with a there’s a an art critical. Um. Magazine out there called October and it’s it’s billed as like the one of the most famous and most influential art critical magazines out there and it’s not even really a magazine and it’s got this sort of marxist postmodernist something or otherist.

21:21.57
podcomm
Nope.

21:36.16
Curtis
Thing to it and to read 1 sentence in there is like trying to read kant it’s like it’s like are you it’s like are you kidding? What does this sentence mean oh my it’s this is like so this is yeah they’re they’re.

21:40.97
podcomm
Um I have I have to do what.

21:54.24
Curtis
Expressing themselves to other people that are interested in like trying to learn that language all of the academics but normal people like stay away from art because they got absolutely no. There’s no connection to what those people are saying to what’s in front of them. It doesn’t it just doesn’t communicate so did yeah and I really do want to like connect people to themselves through art because that’s really what intuition is all about it’s like connecting with stuff that’s like.

22:15.49
podcomm
It’s not intuitive to use your own words. Yeah.

22:32.12
Curtis
At the deepest level of yourself finding yourself. Yeah, and then we we could get into the whole Jungian thing which I am also a jungian personage personage as it were yeah.

22:45.50
podcomm
Um, as much as I hate to say it is probably where we should stop. Um, not because of anything you just said, but just because I’m watching the clock tick. Um, but I do say all the time This doesn’t have to be the only one of these that we record together. Um.

22:50.45
Curtis
No problem. No no problem.

23:01.75
podcomm
I said at the beginning super happy to get a chance to talk with you? Um, thanks for sharing your insights about art your perspective. Um I still think postal mic is really hard. But um, what was the third podcast for those people keeping score.

23:17.41
Curtis
It’s Christo’s astrology I am an astrologer who does like an everyday horoscope also intuition. Thank you, thank you Craig I just like this has been delightful i.

23:19.11
podcomm
Ah.

23:26.27
podcomm
Terrific I run out of Adjectives cristo.

23:33.69
Curtis
Thank you for letting me spout.

23:36.67
podcomm
You’re very welcome. Thank you for showing up I’m glad to see that you look energized rather than completely deflated. So I’m going to call that a win. So thanks.

23:42.28
Curtis
Awesome.