Transcript for "Fun - with Michelle Muri"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine who the fuck are you so we had we had this discussion beforehand about I still like what’s the craziest podcast like I fish you know before if if you’ve been on the show. You know how this works but I tend to.

00:01.41
Michelle Muri
And I’m Michelle muri.

00:09.38
Michelle Muri
Ah.

00:17.49
podcomm
Try to I call it like conversational Jujitsu we’d like figure out what are we talking about what kind of show is this going to be um and we were all over the map and um I still I still haven’t seen the dog I hear this dog on the other side but we were having a conversation about dogs. We having a conversation about podcast origin stories. We were having a conversation about um.

00:23.35
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah, yeah, snoring.

00:36.42
podcomm
Crazy guests not crazy in a bad way but crazy about like this person’s really famous and they jumped on my show because I was nice or you know all these weird things that happened to us and and I was name-d dropping all the cool people I’ve got to interview that Michelle would know. Um, so yeah, welcome I say this everybody thanks so much for taking the time because I mean it and let’s.

00:40.79
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah. And ah, yeah, Thank you.

00:55.76
podcomm
Go in the direction you want take another swing at what’s your favorite dog.

00:58.51
Michelle Muri
Um, you know what? honestly like I thought I loved all the biggest dogs and I’ve been fostering during the pandemic fostering dogs this time and lately I’ve had this small puggle and like he’s definitely one of my favorites because he looks ridiculous.

01:14.93
podcomm
But he has no clue right.

01:16.20
Michelle Muri
I Don’t know why someone bred them this way. He has no clue they bred them this way right? They can’t live without humans. They can’t live without a sweater I’ve never had to put a sweater on a dog before till I fostered this guy and he has like a severe underb bit and really bug eyes and like I laugh half the time I look at him and I know it sounds mean but he’s he’s like it’s.

01:26.40
podcomm
Oh yeah.

01:36.90
Michelle Muri
Endearing and I’ve been going through some grief lately processing grief. Um, and he’s really been here at the right time to just make me laugh by looking ridiculous. He’s also got a great temperament but um, right now he’s my favorite dog but every foster dog that comes through my house is like my new favorite. So.

01:42.63
podcomm
Like yeah.

01:52.27
podcomm
Yeah, if people out there if you’re a dog person. You know exactly what I’m talking about if you’re not a dog person I’m sorry that’s you’re not hooked up right? do.

01:55.13
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

02:00.65
Michelle Muri
You know what? wait wait wait rewind though I mean I I thought it was a cat person before the pandemic but we have ah my housemate and I have a cat in the house that hates other cats. But it’s okay with dogs and so I couldn’t foster cats or have a cat and that’s how I ended up fostering dogs I’d never even had 1 before.

02:08.19
podcomm
And cats know.

02:18.30
podcomm
Um, yes, some people have bad experiences with dogs too. You know like if the first dog you ever meet bite you in the face like you’re off on the wrong foot. So that that’s understandable, um podcasting right? Let’s talk about something related to podcasting have you ever had a dog on your podcast now have you? um.

02:20.57
Michelle Muri
So yeah I didn’t think I was the dog person. Yeah.

02:28.76
Michelle Muri
Right? sir.

02:37.17
podcomm
I’m going to pretty much guess that when you do your podcast show. It’s pretty much the same Michelle right? So do do you find that you dial it back I was because you just inhaled like you were going to yeah but me. So.

02:48.86
Michelle Muri
Ah I wasn’t going to yeah by you. It was like a like oh that’s a good question.

02:54.58
podcomm
Because what I’m wondering is so ethical rainmaker you’re talking about or your show is about ah but fundraising for nonprofit organizations Sorry I dozed off and I’m well that we all know as podcasters that could really go well and I’m I’m wondering.

03:05.68
Michelle Muri
Ah, it’s a very niche topic. Okay, ah it does.

03:14.47
podcomm
Do you find that you’re um I’m up blowing smoke but your effervescent bubbly energetic personality does that play to your benefit for you and you have a cohost right? No why? Okay do you find that.

03:22.33
Michelle Muri
No, it’s just me me and and me interviewing guests. Yeah.

03:29.60
podcomm
I mean and I know that that energy plays to one’s benefit with most other human beings so they can work really well on the show. But how does that play like that energy level that you bring to the show. How does that play with the people who listen if you have any idea.

03:31.53
Michelle Muri
Yes.

03:41.59
Michelle Muri
Um I don’t know how it does I get what I can tell you is that? Um, yes, like whenever I I mean you also have an effervescent personality right? And so we know that um, it’s easier for folks to open up to us. Um, it’s easier to connect with folks. Um, when you’re just like made like this right? but 1 of the things that I didn’t expect ah some of the feedback I didn’t expect to receive was that people will tell me that my voice is really really relaxing and so I’m used to folks saying ah you bring the energy you bring the bubbles and that you know like the excitement or whatever. Um. And in an interview you know I am I’m doing a lot of listening and only some interjection. Ah, but what I’ve heard from listeners is that I have a relaxing voice and that I didn’t know. In fact, I’ve been thinking about um incentivizing Patreon by getting to a certain number of donors and then just doing like 1 of those sleep.

04:38.22
podcomm
Oh that’s a brilliant idea.

04:39.10
Michelle Muri
Podcast where you just like is ven out. So right because I’m getting this feedback and you you know what I listen to I listen to head spacece and any of those like meditation podcasts that I meant for a sleep meditation. Yeah, right right? So that’s in the that’s in the future and in a future visioning session.

04:47.70
podcomm
Um, yeah, so what’s that one sleep with me is another one? yeah.

04:58.92
Michelle Muri
But yeah, relaxing apparently. But.

04:59.57
podcomm
I always say when I get my third clone out of the vat I’ll work on that project because this one and the other clone and the second clone we’re all too busy. Yeah, it’s there’s way too many things. Um.

05:03.64
Michelle Muri
O va he’s kicking him up. You are all too busy I mean with all kinds of projects too. Yeah, but yeah I bring I bring myself I’m going to answer the first question too which is yes I kind of bring my full self and I say that because. What I’m sure like it’s it’s I find that one of my biggest challenges still in podcasting I’m in season 3 of the ethical rainmaker. We’re wrapping up soon. um yeah ah um I think I’ll have something like 27 maybe by the time. Yeah.

05:29.41
podcomm
I saw how many episodes do you have out. Um, that’s awesome. So one of my favorite dicks in this show is I know how lonesome how much it sucks to be a podcaster so I like take every possible opportunity to tell people that’s awesome when they tell me how many episodes they have because any number greater than 7 is ah you don’t like on the other side of the average so congratulations on getting that far.

05:46.83
Michelle Muri
Thank you is amazing right? Thank you I launched in July 2020 I’m a little background so I am the co-chair and a right.

05:55.51
podcomm
And in how long when did you? launch. Right? That’s over a year um thought it was the wrong I’m like what year its 22 I have a posted note on my computer see this note I have posted the note know what year it is me to but.

06:05.33
Michelle Muri
This is the beginning of it. We are recording this in January Twenty Twenty two the end of January oh I see that he’s literally holding up a post it. That’s funny 22 so in chill in in spring twenty twenty I took the akimbo podcasting class that’s where we you and I met um.

06:21.30
podcomm
He.

06:23.57
Michelle Muri
Along with other amazing people Jay Gen um Don Rappola ah nading Kelly ah Steve oh my gosh I almost said Steve Kelly I’ve just forgotten Steve’s last name I’m sorry Steve Heatherington who is podcast I have listen to you.

06:36.38
podcomm
Heather Hetherington my brain went I don’t know what Nadian’s husband’s name is we’re dropppping all these people’s names are all like stop talking about us but Jay was on the show too and you yeah anyway, you were saying.

06:41.98
Michelle Muri
I know oh he was I love that well Steve Hetherington I listen to his podcast to relax honestly like I love his podcast right? Yeah um the alapaca tribe so and he’s got a relaxing but and relaxing stories like I love it I can’t wait to visit someday. Um.

06:51.80
podcomm
He’s got a relaxing voice. Yes, exactly.

07:01.18
Michelle Muri
So yes, anyway I I met all these wonderful people including you Um, and really you know worked on the concept for this podcast. Um, and when I was about ready to launch. It was also the same time that as a co-chair of this of this group called Community-centric fundraising. Which by the way like we we were building a content hub which is very active now called communitycentricfundraising dot org.

07:23.13
podcomm
Yeah, didn’t it like and and somebody said hey we should make a podcast and didn’t you go like I’m already doing that is that I’ve seen to remember Serendipity in the middle of that story.

07:29.42
Michelle Muri
Yeah I think that’s right, That’s exactly right? That’s that’s totally what was happening. You remember that from the real time. Ah, exactly so good job. Yeah, great memory. A couple years back now and so what I was I was launching this content hub.

07:37.27
podcomm
Um, yeah.

07:48.79
Michelle Muri
That centers the voices of people of color in the nonprofit industry and really talks about the ways in which nonprofits and foundations are really complicit in upholding white supremacy and how nonprofits um and foundations have racist roots. We like to think of those entities and these occupations in the sector as being. Um. Ah, really, you know, giving and generous and loving and nurturing. But really the roots of it were not built in that even though many of us that work in these sectors of course are loving and generous and nurturing. But we’re also complicit in upholding terrible practices. So I wanted to make a podcast about where we should step into.

08:15.37
podcomm
Right.

08:25.81
Michelle Muri
Power or change things or where we should step out of the way what we should be doing differently. Um and it’s been an incredible experience. So yeah I launched in July 2020 um it took a lot to get there to launch it and um I mean ah it did. But yeah, here’s here’s something that I never talk about.

08:38.10
podcomm
Um, yeah, yep.

08:45.32
Michelle Muri
Um, and I’m because it’s embarrassing because it’s a little bit foolish but um, in order to get it to the final stage I was working on it working on it working on it but I was also working on this really big other project and I didn’t have much money coming in I’m a nonprofit fundraising consultant. Um, my plate is completely full Now. Don’t worry, but. It was at this moment where my biggest client. Um and I had completed work together and I only had 1 client at that moment that was barely paying the bills so in order to get the podcast over the finish line I was like shit shit shit I need help and I need it right now and I can’t wait and it needs to launch at the same time that this content hub Launches. So.

09:09.20
podcomm
M.

09:21.48
podcomm
Right? Living on the edge. Ah.

09:24.37
Michelle Muri
Actually gave up my health insurance and which is yes yes I would never do that again and at the same time I gave up my health insurance so that I could hire an audio producer who saw how important this might this could be to the sector. Um.

09:38.28
podcomm
Ah, force Multiplier right.

09:42.91
Michelle Muri
Yes, and it it was worth it I can say that because I didn’t get injured in the time that I didn’t have health insurance you know or come down with any major illness that would have been terrifying. Yeah exactly Yikes but um I made that sacrifice and then what’s happened since then is it’s it’s blown up in our little sector.

09:47.74
podcomm
Like yikes.

09:58.87
podcomm
Oh.

10:01.60
Michelle Muri
So it’s a super niche podcast. Um, some of the episodes are about fundraising a lot of them are about things like you know, ah my most popular episode to date. It was from season 1 and it’s with this woman named Flor Larson and we did an episode called white women as gatekeepers and she’s a white woman who does diversity equity and inclusion work and is talking about the ways in which white women who. Make up 80% of the nonprofit sector can be complicit by not even meaning to it can do a lot of gatekeeping and like how not to etc so we have episodes like that. Um, and it’s amazing how it’s taken off I think um. By the end of this week um and again we’re at the end of January Twenty Twenty Two I think I’ll have 50000 downloads and that blows my mind. Yeah, it’s wild.

10:39.16
podcomm
Nice, nice. It is always amazing. Um, when you look back and you’re like if I had tried to plan that there’s no way that would ever work and there’s there’s magic in the alignment of of like.

10:59.11
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah.

10:59.39
podcomm
Guests. Um, you know the strangest things happen people don’t show up or people you know, show up at the wrong time like just there’s all sorts of crazy stuff. Um, but there’s that like all ads magic to you know that. Don’t know what the story is behind that particular recording that you did but it it may be a combination of things like it was just the perfect day for her to be talking about that material and you know and all this stuff comes together and it was just like.

11:13.66
Michelle Muri
Right.

11:22.59
podcomm
Special pixiedust woven into the audio file and people pick up on that and that makes them share it and then they share it to their friends and then oh also this other thing happened at the same time that launched this whole platform and I think I know I can get lost and I think a lot I see this happen a lot people get lost like trying to um.

11:23.67
Michelle Muri
You have? yeah.

11:30.16
Michelle Muri
Um, yes.

11:40.40
podcomm
To get your podcast to end. It’s so important to visualize what done is like okay, a definition of done is going to be this and then we also try to imagine well here’s the I’m going to throw a launch party for all zero people who know it exists and then I’m also going to like you know all this stuff and really, it’s like yeah, just publish the thing and take the high road.

11:43.92
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

11:57.42
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

11:59.43
podcomm
You know with everything that you’re doing and it works or a doesn’t and when it really takes off. It’s like wow all right? I’m glad I didn’t spend more time on that you know or or I’m glad I didn’t get lost and sit on for six months you know in a you know, festering pile of uncertainty or something. So.

12:06.66
Michelle Muri
Right. Right? Well I’m glad I took the akimbo podcasting course because I knew that I wanted to do podcasts but never would have like and I knew that I could figure it out on my own but the truth be told now that I know what goes into it that it was never going to make it to this level right? And so yeah, it was the the right the right time all of those things to happen and and what’s what my ultimate goal was is also happening which is like you said like at the end it’s being taught in University Classrooms as curriculum like this podcast some of the topics we’re covering are like being assigned. Um.

12:39.70
podcomm
Um.

12:46.66
Michelle Muri
When when I’ve done some fundraising again. I’m a professional fundraising consultant. My My collective is called Freedom Conspiracy That’s the the work that I do and again the podcast is called the ethical rainmaker. Um, but when I’m working with freedom conspiracy And. Ah, and we’re talking to organizations for new business. A lot of new business is coming through because people listen to the podcast or heard about the podcast or just know and have heard my voice um same with when I’m fundraising for the Community-centric fundraising platform some of the you know ceos and other folks at major foundations.

13:08.15
podcomm
Um.

13:21.30
Michelle Muri
Um, when they are meeting with us. Also suddenly you know have listened to the podcast as Well. So I’m just getting so much traction in a way that I wanted and I’m not saying like for my ego or like for my um like platform as a worker I’m just saying. The topics that I wanted to cover and the the topics that I chose are being listened to and that’s the best part I Love it? Yeah yeah.

13:43.10
podcomm
Yeah, it resonates when when you were mentioning people hearing you and then you meet them in person I don’t know that I really made that connection before because um, everything that I’m doing I don’t normally ever do anything else with the people that I talk to in any of my shows or.

13:49.84
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

13:58.37
Michelle Muri
Yeah, no.

14:01.64
podcomm
Um, I mean that might not be entirely true I So I’ve I’ve done a significant amount of like what they call work for hire where I by did the work. It’s my voice but they told me this is what we want you to get from these people presenting at this event and then at the end of the event. We physically just handed the audio files over to the entity and they made podcasts out of them. Um.

14:08.62
Michelle Muri
Cool.

14:19.10
Michelle Muri
That’s because you’re so awesome Craig honestly, that’s a badass job that sounds like a lot of fun. It sounds like a lot of fun right.

14:21.56
podcomm
The ah shucks I didn’t get paid a lot. You didn’t get paid a lot. It’s most like I did it for fun because I like the topic and the people but I’m thinking those people I have I have subsequently met some of the people who were on in those episodes which derailed my train of thought about me saying I don’t normally ever encounter the people like to.

14:29.33
Michelle Muri
Hit.

14:40.36
podcomm
I’m also thinking I’m probably coming to Seattle in September but that’s a whole nother story I don’t normally meet the people that I talk to on podcasts but it occurs to me that if I don’t know who ever listened. But if people are listening if you are using your show and you’re talking about something that you also do in person.

14:40.81
Michelle Muri
Um, come ah.

14:55.69
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

14:57.65
podcomm
That could really be powerful to have that person walk in the room and there’s this cauccoini of people at the all and and then they say hello to you and um, the recognition circuits light up in our brains and the the mirror neurons right? you go like I know that voice and it’s only ever happened to me like 3 times.

15:09.19
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah.

15:16.48
podcomm
We’re sorry where somebody who heard me on the show I I was at a party 1 time in the before times and I happened to be standing it happened to be standing near the door and somebody walked in and it was a friend’s giving so there’s people everywhere and people eating and it’s chaos and disorder it was awesome and this person walked in.

15:17.73
Michelle Muri
Um, I know I miss those before times. Ah, okay.

15:31.83
Michelle Muri
Yeah.

15:35.32
podcomm
And I simply said hello. But I said hello you know like which is kind of like how I say it in the podcast and they looked at me and went oh my God like that you know like they instantly recognized who I was so it it occurs to me that you’re you’re really onto something there I don’t know whether they realized it or not that.

15:44.66
Michelle Muri
Um, amazing. Um, yeah, yeah.

15:52.81
podcomm
Using the podcast as a vehicle to to present or to bring yourself to that person before you ever chance to meet them is like really powerful. So maybe we should all be thinking about that more as podcasters like how can I use this as a calling card is kind of cheesy, but how can I use this as ah as an introduction piece.

16:01.87
Michelle Muri
For sure. No right? Well my my friend voulay who lives in Seattle also writes a very popular blog called nonprofit a f he’s got a huge following. Probably the biggest in the industry or the sector rather.

16:11.22
podcomm
Um.

16:21.51
Michelle Muri
And I happened to have known him before he wrote the blog before any of that we both did immigrant rights work and that’s how we met. Um, and so when we started meeting and getting to know each other he every about twice a year would be like Michelle you have a lot to say and a lot to like that you want to explore you should make a blog like. You really need to so every couple of every a couple times every year. He’d be like get your voice out there. Get your voice out there. We need more women of color talking about what they think you know yes.

16:45.87
podcomm
Yeah, but when you write when you write. It’s not I’m thumb thinking like I spend all of time writing when you you can’t hear like it. Um, ah you get it. But you can’t hear me so they don’t actually know my voice. We talk about the writer’s voice but like podcasting is literally our voice.

17:02.78
Michelle Muri
It’s literally our voice and we convey so much with it and by the things we say et cetera right? exactly it takes me so long to write an article because I just wrote it. I wrote an Instagram post today. It was 2 paragraphs long and it took me forever because I had to rethink and then rethink and I might overanalyzing it is this houses to understand. Yeah that takes forever talking to someone is just so much easier and faster for me and plus you know.

17:16.10
podcomm
Um, how are they gonna how are they gonna interpret this. What are they going to hear in their own minds when they see these way Blah blah.

17:28.87
Michelle Muri
Are those of us who prefer to learn by listening and I’m one of those folks. So yeah, but it was it was really the prompting of my friend over many many years I want to say he he told me for like 10 years I need to get my voice out there and like have a platform of some kind that I wasn’t into it and then at the right time all of these things hit.

17:30.33
podcomm
Yeah.

17:37.23
podcomm
Um, but.

17:46.77
Michelle Muri
Ah, vo is my co-chair when we launched community centric fundraising dot org and it’s become a huge movement like we have a slack channel with thousands of people. Our mailing list went overnight from 0 to like 10000 I think now we’re close to 20000 people in the um email list.

18:00.68
podcomm
There’s a market that needed to be served Holy cow.

18:03.26
Michelle Muri
Exactly we have we have there are groups um, meeting in 86 different cities that we know of and many more that we don’t know about that are talking about… How do we? How do we change the way that we do things and all of that is a result of this content hub being built and ah like and. You know the the story of that’s well documented and other pieces and other podcasts and stuff. But but all of this was like you know at the right moment. Um, and yeah and it’s made a huge difference for me as well. Yeah, it’s been incredible. Things.

18:27.58
podcomm
Um, way to go I Want to say like well I’m so sorry your podcast was a total flop and nothing worked out. But at least you have health insurance now now I think it’s great when people get to hear. Um.

18:38.57
Michelle Muri
I have health insurance I have health insurance. But um, yeah.

18:46.79
podcomm
And want to say crazyass ideas that work out. It’s great when people get to hear crazyass ideas that really work out of like well I think this might be cool I’ll try it I’ll build it and then oh there are a lot of people who needed this and um I think it reminds us all to like sometimes I tend to stick to things too long I was like no I’m going to you know, rearrange these deck chairs onm Titanic no matter what.

19:04.15
Michelle Muri
Um, yes.

19:06.30
podcomm
And I think it’s good to to take a swing and then sometimes you had a home run so mad props. Um, yeah.

19:09.66
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah, thank you. It was really exciting. Thanks for being one of our coaches. 1 of my coaches through the whole process I remember you and I meeting ok ok I forgot about that.

19:17.95
podcomm
I keep trying to push back on that I’m not really a coach and remarkable. But okay I’m a coach I think people push back everybody pushes back Craig you’re a coach. Yeah technically not a coach. But yeah, yeah, that was cool.

19:27.58
Michelle Muri
Yes, well well we got to interact plenty How about that it felt like coaching I can redefine it. Oh do there a.

19:33.76
podcomm
When’s last time you were on one of the podcaster calls. They still do the monthly podcaster calls even though forward Link doesn’t exist. Yeah, there’s ah we can talk about it after.

19:39.60
Michelle Muri
I Heard that forward link doesn’t exist anymore and I didn’t even realize that it disappeared right up from under my nose I was about to hit it up and then I was like oh it’s not here what is happening.

19:45.56
podcomm
Yeah, oh yeah, it’s gone. Yeah, so they still continue doing. There’s a monthly call for all the akimb bites and I’ll give you the info you can get on a mailing list and there’s 1 coming up but probably next might be this weekend actually might be the January call anyway.

19:51.35
Michelle Muri
Oh please done.

19:59.52
Michelle Muri
Oh hey I would be here for it I’d be into that Ohio um game over. Thank you so much.

20:03.76
podcomm
Ohio all right? Um, cool. Well, that’s 20 minutes game over um Michelle it was super fun. Super terrific. A little disappointed I have not yet seen the doll but maybe it’s because he’s so low to the floor. We’ll let it go so.

20:13.42
Michelle Muri
He is. Ah.

20:16.90
podcomm
It was a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you in this particular format for a change instead of the Hollywood Square style. So thanks for taking the time.

20:18.83
Michelle Muri
Um, yeah, right? hey thanks for interviewing me I Really appreciate being on this little show and I thank you for everything that you have done to help uplift other podcasters and me personally.

20:32.15
podcomm
My pleasure. You’re very welcome bye.

20:35.83
Michelle Muri
I.