Transcript for "Exploration - with Matthew Jensen"

(Interactive content will replace this message when viewed in the Forum.)

00:00.00
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome this is the podcaster community show short conversations that are not just about podcasting because I like to take the scenic route. My guest today is Matthew Jensen welcome Matt how are you my pleasure. Thanks for it’s this.

00:13.43
Matthew
I am doing Well thanks for having me.

00:39.24
Craig
Call this the battle of thank yous happens every time it’s one of my favorite parts because I really enjoy and you and I talk but you know everybody knows this by now unless year this is your none episode hey welcome. Talk a little bit beforehand and I tell you know people I really just love the part that happens between record and stop I love the interaction. Um that I think there’s this is I think self-evident but there’s a lot of magic in understanding somebody else and getting to figure out how they think and what. Way to do that is still like see what interests them. You know you’re like oh how about this? How about that and then see where their mind goes. Um I think probably the thing that would be fun to pull on today is I’m curious about what your experience has been so in your show what your experience has been. Um. I’m going to say bringing on a cohost because we’re just going to say it’s all yours. So when you’re brought on a cohost. What was like the biggest I wasn’t expecting this new challenge and maybe what was the biggest. Oh this got much easier when you had that None person involved.

02:26.35
Matthew
Well I I came to this totally blind basically like a lot of people and when I first started it I think I did 3 or 4 episodes and it was just talking to friends about what they what they did or what they. You know, thought about certain topic topics in a long form and ah one of my friends who’s an experience podcaster kind of throughout the idea that um, he really enjoyed the conversations that we had in person. And if there was some way to bring that online that would be a cool thing. So yeah I I think a lot of people think that they’re maybe not that interesting, but there’s there’s always aspects of of yourself that people find really interesting and ah. Mike who’s my co-host. He’s a experienced podcaster has done I think about None episodes of long form interviews. So we just started talking and then what we have now is we just talk about say current events how they might affect the future. And Mike as not a subject matter expert in the areas that I am ask a lot of questions and tries to learn. So it’s it’s been fun.

05:27.52
Craig
I Think that’s a great mix. What’s the name of your podcast sweet and where can people find it I’m assuming it’s all the director reason I find on I think it was the new next dot Libsin Dot Com is where you can find them on the web or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

05:23.81
Matthew
Podcast is the new next.

05:52.37
Matthew
Yep.

06:06.94
Craig
Um, somewhere recently I so I started getting like this commercial idea my head where I feel like I always need to like have a plug for the guests thing when I’m doing this show I don’t know um Craig was dropping his head a lot tends to talk about himself in the None person. Do you do? Oh this is going to get bad. Do you think that.

06:21.81
Matthew
Meteor.

06:46.46
Craig
Um, like ah I don’t have a co-host so I’m and this is I’m curious about this. Do you have a balance to like which of you brings the topics to the table like do you spend time like whiteboarding figuratively or literally this is what next week’s episode’s going to be or like I’m ah in my head I’m imagining. There’s A. New Tv New Ish Tv show with Jon Stewart and they have like the behind the scenes you know the the writers are in a room and they have whiteboard and they’re like we post a nose and they’re playing with a dog and I’m just wondering like you guys get together in person. Do you work? Virtually how do you decide? What the show’s gonna be about or is it just a complete and we’repress record.

07:25.37
Matthew
But.

07:44.87
Matthew
I would say that it’s tilted towards the complete just press record in many aspects but Mike and I are friends too. So we’ll we’ll exchange things that we think that we’re interested about and I’m technically. Already prepared because I’m either doing it as part of my career or something that I’m and you know really interested in and learning about um sometimes we talk about topics. So it’s it’s really at at the deepest part we’ll have maybe a list. And these are these are things that we thought that might be interested to talk about but we’re it’s very not organized. Yeah yeah, free flowing. So it’s you know it’s kind of.

09:27.66
Craig
Um, loose Oh don’t say disorganized say free flowing or dynamic right.

09:40.37
Matthew
I really like how Mike Interviews um you know for someone that I know it’s I really enjoy talking to him so it’s basically like 2 friends talking about what they what they like we we do have a couple of listeners too that will send in questions and. Mike will either if if it goes to my kill either let me know beforehand but usually it’s fries and on top of that too. We recently started up a submit form on a website where you can basically add questions and.

10:42.20
Craig
Um.

10:56.25
Matthew
Maybe we’ll get to them if that’s something that we want to touch.

11:17.00
Craig
That’s the yeah, we reserve the right to not publish your insane commentary disguised as a question I can only imagine do you think that? um, it’s it’s my so my concern for myself is like yeah it’s the Craig show you know like it. I have how could I be somebody else on know I’m not an actor and I’m just wondering if you guys try to push grammar not push each other necessarily But do you try to push yourselves to like show up in a different way or to like challenge yourself to say well I’ve had a none conversations with this other person already. You know I’m going to try and go deeper or I’m going to try and skip the things that are light because I really want to get his take on this deeper part I’m just wondering have you guys played with that. We’ll call that like depth of how you interact.

12:41.39
Matthew
I I think that I like to push Mike a little bit more to share what he thinks about because because Mike views himself as maybe the more the hosts that ask the questions and I like the back and forth. Like just because he’s not necessarily a subject matter expert I think that brings out kind of our best conversations is when he’s actively learning something or has different perspectives on stuff. So it’s it’s still a work in progress and. Like like everything right Um, or we’re not really sure where it’s going to go but it’s it’s it’s fun to talk to someone that I think is equally interested in the topics that we talk about um and I’m I mean I’m a a nerd about them. And I’ve been obsessed with them for years. So for me too. It’s ah, a really good learning experience of how to communicate stuff like that to someone who’s not necessarily a subject matter expert.

15:16.56
Craig
I’m scribbling frantically. Um I I think so you mentioned getting some feedback and some questions from listeners and and I’m I’m thinking about? Do you Guys. I Want to say like a debrief like do you do take the time after you’ve done the thing to do like the hot after action report like you know you slap the headphones off and you go that sucked you know and do you do that or you know, maybe it was great. But do you do like an immediate hot take of what your None person’s subjective experience of it was. And and then maybe do you like listen and go back later I’m just wondering like how much you try to close if at all, do you try and close the loop to like take as much advantage of having that other person you know in the Mix. So like I’m I’m mostly working by myself I’ll ask you for feedback at the end of 3 we press stop.

16:40.29
Matthew
You.

16:58.98
Craig
Um, but beyond that you know I don’t have a chance really to work with you. You know over and over and over so this seems like an opportunity. You’re like oh here’s a person that I can do all these different scales of feedback loops with.

17:06.88
Matthew
I I would say it’s a little bit more informal like ah, a lot of the recording that we do is later at Night. So just because I have I have young kids and both of us work. But so if we’re ending at None sometimes I’m I’m like ah I’m I’m tired and just see to go? Yeah yeah, but ah, otherwise we’ll we’ll talk for a couple minutes. Um, sometimes there’s things that we think of during the conversation that.

17:58.24
Craig
That was that was great Mike yeah runs his engies like a too.

18:19.19
Matthew
It’s it’s a topic that we might want to talk about more in depth in the future like ah, let’s see what yesterday at yesterday we had lunch with one of our podcasting fans and we ah one of the things that we were talking about was.

18:33.68
Craig
Um.

18:56.65
Matthew
Hydrogen fuels for shipping and we took a note about that and we’ll talk about it in the future. But there’s there’s stuff like that sometimes where we’ll write it down or add it to a kind of informal list sometimes Mike with his more experience. Is like hey will you cut that part out and then usually usually even if I’m going to I say that I won’t so but ah.

20:00.80
Craig
Um, oh that’s rude shots fired. Ah.

19:56.27
Matthew
Yeah, but ah now it’s um, we’ll we’ll like text back and forth during the week about stuff and it’s It’s really informal at this point and I think both of us are getting used to working together on it. So we’re trying to figure out I I guess more standards and practices of how we move forward? Um, but but really, it’s It’s kind of 2 friends having conversations like we would normally um.

21:14.28
Craig
Um, yeah I can think about None maybe not 17 I bet you I could think of None different ways that I could oh I could play with that the idea of having a co and like all right, we’re going to do cold shows where we don’t know what we’re talking about it and None of us brings the topic and None of us says homework and we try to find things where none of us are matter. Subject matter experts are ones where you both are. Or yeah, we try to do the whole show in pig latin and see who loses it first lots of ways to play with the medium.

21:49.41
Matthew
Well and we’ve talked about eventually having I would say maybe live Zoom calls with people that watch the podcast and just have them throwock questions too. So we’ll we’ll see how that would work. But.

22:25.34
Craig
Oh.

22:40.96
Craig
It just because it depends it depends on how quick everybody is at being nimble and and being able to figure out What’s the next best thing to say and video adds a whole and other level of complexity to it that I intentionally don’t want to go anywhere near.

22:28.15
Matthew
Sounds like it would be interesting.

23:16.52
Craig
Hard enough to well and when you’re recording remotely. It’s hard enough to jam the audio through the internet and get a good quality out of it and Zoom is a nightmare but I mean Zoom’s great for video conferencing like when you just want to talk to someone but when it comes to podcasting. It’s like world of hurt. Ah what else anything at him.

23:14.49
Matthew
Yeah.

23:56.34
Craig
So I often say having a conversation with Craig is like having a stroll down broadway in New York City there’s like 900 side streets. There’s pretzel vendors my personal nemesis in New York city there’s all these things going on and a lot of times I’m choosing in point and and you don’t. You know the guests are just kind of like yeah where are we going so I’m like anything and I’ve gone by that you wanted to take a peek down an alley or a side street a little bit more in detail.

24:22.50
Matthew
Well I was just kind of curious you you obviously run the community and you have ah a lot of experience of podcasting. What are some of your thoughts on cohosts and maybe like stuff that you’ve learned through other people. That you think that it would be good for myself and other people to consider.

25:24.38
Craig
Ah, that’s a good question I first of all I don’t I’m delighted to have I well yeah, I’ve never done shows where I’ve had oh well actually that’s not true. Ah generally I haven’t done shows where I’ve had a co-host certainly not like a regular series of them where I’ve had the same person. Um, but I’m going to say it is extremely useful to have another person who’s intimately familiar with like your show and what you’re doing so I have a production assistant a good friend of mine who is in charge of she’s actually called the guests advocate. It’s a doctor who joke like you know she cares. So I don’t have to I care. But that’s the joke and her job is to like know the guests for the for another show that I have and like to figure out when they’re available and do all that and I’m getting to a point listeners who are rolling their eyes the conversations that I have with her. Like off mic where we’re going somewhere and we’re talking about what’d you think of that how did that go what about this topic. Why didn’t I ask this question or next Tuesday is this person so I haven’t had a cohost but I can tell you if you have somebody who is as crazy like insanely passionate about the thing that you’re doing. That’s only gonna get better the more that you talk to that person be they co-host or a pa or whatever the more you get a chance to talk about them in like ah yeah, we’re not doing anything here. We’re not recording but what’d you think of that. What’d you think of this what have you seen that you thought would be a good addition to our show. You know what are we doing that we should take out. Um, so my prediction is that.

27:49.10
Matthew
Um.

28:32.58
Craig
That’ll only get better the more you talk about it off mic So that’s the None thing and I thought of rapports another thing and the rapport can cut either way I’m just taking a like. You know the classic Radio Jockey and the sidekick you know like when they get it dialed In. It’s just funny you know or like it’s really good. But when you think about, um you know a classic Tv show person doing interviews.

28:46.43
Matthew
Yeah.

29:25.74
Craig
Or a newscaster they usually operate by themselves the morning shows then they do Oh we want some light witty banter but we want to get serious. You usually want to bring in some outside person and then you have a 2 on 1 if you have a co-host so that. The rapport is good but it can also make an inside outsider and us them kind of thing when you bring in another person so that would be those are 2 things that I like if I had a co-host why on a show that needed a cohost I’d be like that would be what I would be most interested in in digging into those 2 things.

29:46.81
Matthew
Yeah.

30:09.63
Matthew
Yeah, that’s a interesting perspective on the insider outsider for interviews if you have 2 people I’ve I’ve definitely seen other podcasts where I’ve I’ve kind of picked up on that.

30:58.26
Craig
It’s subtle right? I mean it. It can be really subtle but it really matters I’ve had um I’ve done a lot and people who listen no, we only do the Craig braggy thing but I’ve had conversations where the.

30:47.47
Matthew
Yeah, yeah, so.

31:28.92
Craig
The best ones the most phone one are when you get people who are partners. You know like husband wives or boyfriend girlfriend or or whatever get people in a relationship give them None microphones rather I travel with enough gear to do 3 guests. Give people who are in a close personal relationship microphones. Oh. It’s so great. You’ll ask them questions like some of my shows have like a standardized question. And you ask them a question you know like and and they look at each other and and like you can you can so tell so much about a relationship like None will’ll look at the other and then the other one will like a thing and then there’s a little like glimmer and then one of them will leap on the sword to go first and it’s like there’s so much that happens when people have rapport and I think it’s way more fun.

32:21.79
Matthew
Um, yeah.

32:43.42
Craig
To bring people who have you know like bring in people who have rapport and then for me to get a chance to like swim in their swimming pool to go interact with them. But that’s what I’m thinking like oh it be interesting to see what it’s like to find somebody with rapport and then bring people in I could talk all day. The other thing I will say is. Um, it just turns out that the person that I work with for the other project. Um, you know I’m a None none new zealand rounds you know guy and she’s like a five foot small slight female and we’re both married to other people. You know? and so like we and we work a lot together but get along really well and that changes the dynamic with the guest because like if I come to your house and ring the doorbell and it’s like oh it’s None people like you know these these are obviously professional people coming to do a thing and. So having that second cohost could also be a really good way to make that other person feel comfortable. It’s just going to depend on the the dynamic you and the that’s a hard word to say the dynamic you and your cohost have so. There’s so many ways that you could slice that and i. I think you’re going to have a blast slicing that a bunch of different ways.

34:45.33
Matthew
Yeah, definitely yeah, we like you said like having someone that you can talk to about different stuff, especially for me someone who’s done it for a long time is is really nice like I I learned so much. And um, someone who’s been on your podcast who Kathy Cox with a knowledge for caregivers podcast. She listens to ours also and she will give us feedback which is always really nice because it’s coming from a fellow podcaster. That’s also very knowledgeable.

35:59.52
Craig
Um.

36:03.85
Matthew
And creates you know a podcast that I I personally really like so that’s it’s It’s been nice for me having basically a community already and and you know Podcasters Community is cool too because I’ve asked.

36:40.46
Craig
M.

36:40.73
Matthew
Questions on there before and people have you know it’s great.

36:58.74
Craig
They’ve really they really dogpile with the answers I just like step back and this is like wow 30 people show up with like 30 different ideas and you’re just like whoa that’ll teach me not to ask first when I have the question.

37:05.49
Matthew
But it’s It’s really good like I I think it it limits the scare factor for doing something like this and it’s it’s been really helpful to people are just like jump in and do it whatever way that you can.

37:34.86
Craig
Yeah, yeah.

37:44.37
Matthew
Because you’ll learn by doing it.

38:02.36
Craig
Yeah, cool cool. Let’s see that last segment was your question any other questions that was a pretty good one well else you got.

38:12.11
Matthew
Let’s see why Why did you start the podcast or committee.

38:30.40
Craig
Um I started the podcaster community in 2019 was its none incarnation. Um, because I was um I was a solo podcaster like working all by myself and I had done like None or 40 episodes of a particular show. And then I took this podcasting I took a podcasting course so people don’t know what we’re talking about. There’s a podcasting course which has nothing to do with the podcast or community that we’re talking about so I took this course and I was in basically this virtual space with like None people who were rabidly passionate about podcasts I was like you know like losing sleep because it was so cool and I’m like. Ripped my whole show apart and rewrote the intro and it was awesome in about four weeks into what’s like a seven weeks of course material and then two more months about four weeks in I went what’s going to happen when this ends because I realized how awesome it was they get but they get to be on a journey with other people who were going the same place.

40:05.63
Matthew
Yeah.

40:23.10
Craig
Um, you know in this case learning the podcast I was ahead of the curve. But I was having just as much fun doing all the lessons about you know how to do your intro how to do your trailer. Um, so that’s what maybe like I’m ah I’m a systems builder I I build things I build the community’ been doing that forever. So I’m like ooh let’s build this thing so the none one didn’t the none incarnation didn’t work long story. Um. Not entirely my fault but anyway, but this recent one when I did it again in June I just think what happened was now when I did it there were hundreds and hundreds and maybe even none of people who have now had a chance to meet me in the virtual those education spaces and then when I said hey I made this like people went. Okay, you know and I came over and logged in. And that bootstrapped the community. So for me, it was literally and I say this it’s just an excuse for me to create a space where I where I know that I can go find people who are rabbibid about the same topic that I’m rabbit about it’s the exact same story that you were just saying about like I went there and I had a question and they answered it and so it’s super fine I was I just posted a question like in a private message about. This periodical I was looking for that’s in the art art criticism realm and there’s like a podcaster who does that and I messaged them and he sent me some things and I’m just like I would never have been able to find that answer you know a couple of breadcrumbs if I hadn’t had access to you know these hundreds of podcasters who were just like oh yeah I happen to know that.

42:14.89
Matthew
This.

43:00.80
Craig
Um, so it was just about finding a group of others who were going the same place as me or thinking about going the same place. So.

42:56.50
Matthew
Yeah, definitely yeah, that makes a big difference having people that you can talk about and run. Yeah, totally.

43:19.40
Craig
Um, the other one ah war stories like people are like is anybody else getting spammed by you know and like there’s the lit because if you’re all the people who are podcasters are going roll in their eyes but people who don’t know when you become a podcaster your email address winds up getting out published in the wild. And all of a sudden you start getting all these you know is like so that we brought them up the flagpole hey I got this thing is this crap or what’s going on and then’re like oh we all got that just ignore it. You know so it’s it’s it’s kind of like the teachers lounge sort of thing where everyone’s just like all right wear the douts and we do. We have like virtual get togethers. We eat once a month and just chew the fat and stuff. So. Right? But I’m watching our time slip away as much as I hate to say it every time I think that’s probably a great place for us to stop Matt um I think yeah, any parting words my pleasure now we do the thanks for that battle of the thanks again. But what.

44:43.49
Matthew
Well thanks for having me and yeah battle of the thanks. Definitely.

45:13.80
Craig
What a delightful problem to have right? All right have a great day Matt bye.