Transcript for "Exploration - with Leekei Tang"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Konine hi Leke thank you for inviting me to join you for a cup of coffee. Um, this one sounds a little different leaky and I were exchanging some messages over Linkedin and she’s like hey do you want to join me at a cafe and I’m like oh that’s that’s mean.

00:02.40
Leekei
Um, hello I’m Liki Tang their ability

00:19.40
podcomm
Yes, I would very much love to join you for fantastic cafe Me um, gipon sit too far.

00:22.38
Leekei
Um, yeah, well I think you forgot to mention that I’m from I’m in Paris did you say that? no you didn’t but.

00:30.95
podcomm
No I I didn’t say that so leki just torturing me by sitting in front of layground marsh which is the great steps or the great stair just out. What’s the full name of the Bastille just next to what’s the what’s the best deal’s full name.

00:38.79
Leekei
To.

00:44.22
Leekei
Was sorry. Um, it’s um, the it’s It’s the best to you. There’s not the.

00:49.99
podcomm
The yeah yeah, it’s like the great fort or something I mean but but the Bastille is a very very classic tourist place to go visit and there’s a great big square and so she’s tortureruring me by sitting in a cafe but I love. I would love to come and visit Paris Paris is really nice and also I forgot that you’re about 5 hours ahead of me so it looks like it’s getting into the evening so like the sun is going to start the color’s going to change anyway.

01:16.78
Leekei
Yes, yes.

01:20.89
podcomm
Um, so that’s what if you’re listening who’s listening. That’s what you hear in the background and occasionally the pompier de patri will go by I want I once saw them I thought they didn’t do this anymore. But I once saw them pull a cat off of someone’s balcony I thought they refused to do that anymore. But I saw that happen a few years ago

01:26.38
Leekei
Sure yeah.

01:37.80
Leekei
Um, they don’t do it anymore. They don’t do it anymore. Um.

01:39.10
podcomm
And apparently it became such a cliche. They’re like this is an annoying waste of our time. So But anyway, um, so we do as I say many times a little conversation before we press record and leeki was talking about you mentioned?? um. I’m equally curious to know about how podcasting fits into what you do, but let’s start with exploration so you were explaining to me that you use podcasting or that you you sort of um, ah, explore you like force yourself to explore. By giving yourself gifts for your birthday and that’s how you got into podcasting was like I’m going to do this for myself because then it doesn’t have to have a goal and then you were talking about Exploration. So Can you tell me was there something special about podcasting that made you think it would be.

02:22.18
Leekei
And um.

02:36.40
podcomm
Maybe fun or um, challenging so that you wouldn’t feel like you needed to have a goal like what drew you to podcasting to make that be your gift for yourself.

02:45.56
Leekei
Um, well um, I’ve already I’ve always been interested in audio as a medium because I listened a lot to radio and I did a little bit of recording if I since as soon as I have my.

02:52.20
podcomm
Um.

03:01.28
Leekei
Hand when I realize I can make recording with it I started recording people around me because I think it’s such an easy way to to get um to share to make it um to make people share the stories and um and I’ve been a big consumer of podcasts. But. I’ve never thought that I will have a podcast one day. The story is that ah my birthday is in August ah, then as you know everybody’s on the holiday in August including me and so it was two years ago ah in August I was on the holiday in the. Very small, charming ah village fishing village and I was having a great time with my family but I have this thing I like to treat myself for my birthday because um because you know, um because um I have to be nice to myself right? and remind myself. And um, and at the end of the day I just thought okay well it’s almost midnight I haven’t bought anything for myself and really and I and I check my email and I saw this this email from selfgoden and say oh you know why don’t you launch your podcast and you’re the dumb. The email email for the podcast fellowship and I thought oh wow, that’s you why not perfect time in. Yeah I love podcasting I love listening to podcast I mean I love listening to podcasts and um, why not learn some skills but I never thought.

04:21.43
podcomm
Perfect timing right.

04:36.39
Leekei
I will be having a podcast myself but because um, because I did something that I had no intention to start. Um, which is quite funny because um because it’s a gift. Ah, but usually when I do something I’m quite um I’m quite focused. And this is I think it’s how my brand is wired I’ve been I’ve been trained this Way. You know whenever you do something you have to have a goal you know what? if not, you’re wasting your time. But for this time I thought Okay, why don’t let myself just be part of it and just let be Guided. You know.

05:10.59
podcomm
Um, right name are.

05:12.29
Leekei
And the podcasting fellowship is perfect for that because you know we are um, there’s the I mean you’ve been through that. So I mean most of listeners have been through that so there’s no way I mean unless you don’t you decide not to connect. To the platform not to be on the platform you have no way but to make progress and um so yeah, and and so I tried to play the game and so okay, there’s this new step what I’m going to do and so little by little. I built my um you know I built my trailer my introduction my you know the different things and then I thought okay it ended um sometime in I think in October and I thought okay I’m going to launch a podcast this next year I’ll do it I’ll launch it I make the official launch on the first of January but then there’s this i. Called um podcast pro program is like a after program that is led by ah David Navinsky and Mary and Maria and um, so there were a couple of people like a dozen of people and um and say okay, why don’t we do it a little bit. Um, it’s never a step further. And so we had we had targets every week and you know because I decided to let myself be fool in the game I launched my podcast and then and then um, there was something that was quite funny because when I started launching the podcast. Um. I think David insisted that we have to do it every week we have to ah to have and to launch an episode shipping episode every week single week but it was real difficult for me because um because you know when um I didn’t I didn’t.

06:45.87
podcomm
Chip it right.

06:58.70
Leekei
Said time to I didn’t I didn’t realize that it would take me so much time to do it and um and because I was still at the learning stage. Um I didn’t want to outsource anything so I was great. It was eating up my time and um and um ah came to a stage that I was cheating myself because.

07:15.26
podcomm
This.

07:19.55
Leekei
That’s part of the exploration. You know? Ah um I was cha myself because um because I couldn’t do the you know 1 episode every week I decided to cut the episode the conversation into 2 and have an episode. Um you know, split into two weeks but then I thought no, that’s. That’s cheating and I should not do that you know I should not do that because I posted the first part and but then I thought the conversation is so good I want to listen to the next part but but then yeah.

07:39.11
podcomm
Yeah.

07:47.90
podcomm
So what were your first recorded. What were your first recorded conversations about I’m wondering how did you get from if you went into it all with such an open exploration with no idea of a goal How did you get from there to using podcasting. As part of your business to to help people in in the fashion industry explore their own thinking like these are 2 completely different things like what? what did you start with for your first conversations and how did you get from one to the other.

08:07.59
Leekei
Several exam.

08:15.31
Leekei
um what um I my part of my my business is to help purpose-d driven fashion business founders grow the business and um and there’s so many um iconic stories. In the fashion industry because it’s um, laughings are based on communication and um and um, yeah, and then I thought okay if I tried to instead of looking ah at ah fashion stories. Um, what if I look at people that are not in fashion business. And what we could learn from those people. So. My first conversation was well actually the first person that accepted to be on my podcast I’m very grateful for her time and for her for for playing the game with me is um, is ah someone from South Africa who lives in Australia and who has launched um a networking um business for migrants and I thought wow that’s perfect. That’s nothing to do with you know that’s nothing to do with um with ah the fashion business and um and with Paris and France and but.

09:21.23
podcomm
Right.

09:30.64
Leekei
You know? Ah, she’s running. Um, um, a purpose driven business and so let’s talk to her and see what we can learn from that and yeah and then and then I’ve been talking to people that are um, all you know working and in another um in other sectors. And um, and um I Really enjoy that because um, because um, because I think that’s you know, Um, what you call it the richness the the innovation in in um, in a lot of different areas where you don’t expect it. And when you list expected and talking to other people. There’s so many things that you could learn from another sector and could apply to the business and it’s how you make it grow today.

10:15.90
podcomm
Yeah, access to sorry access to their other perspectives and you realize that the problems they’re solving are actually pretty similar. Yeah that that’s that’s interesting that you were able to to.

10:21.73
Leekei
Um.

10:31.81
podcomm
I’m going to say outside the box but to think from the very beginning that you could use this tool podcasting that you could use this tool um to to like go like in my mind I’m picturing like well I want to help these people over here to my left. I’m going to take the tool and I’m going to go over and interview these people that are completely apparently separate like these 2 groups are completely different I think that’s very insightful to use the tool to find gems and to bring those to the people that you’re trying to serve um, have you found that? um.

10:56.34
Leekei
Like.

11:05.70
podcomm
I’m just wondering how people in the fashion industry react to audio as the thing.

11:10.87
Leekei
Yeah, well, um, first of all of some people don’t understand what I’m doing some people won and said well you are a helping fashion business. Owners Well why are you talking to people that are teaching yoga or running an um network. Yeah, and so some people don’t understand but some people do and um, no, um, they initially know not many people are well listening to ah to podcasts because um.

11:30.33
podcomm
Yeah industry or something. Yeah.

11:45.97
Leekei
Because um, ah the fashion business is mostly um, visual. Um, and so it’s not a medium for um for the fashion industry and it’s still not but you know, um.

11:49.73
podcomm
Sure sure.

12:01.47
Leekei
Are people that are more advanced like in any sector that are on the edge and looking for new things and those people will um, will appreciate that and um, and um, yeah.

12:13.10
podcomm
Um, yeah, we all talk about niche right? So um, you know you don’t have to be the best in the World. You have to be the best in the niche that you’re in and it sounds like okay if the vast majority of people in the fashion industries aren’t interested. That’s okay. But there’s going to be some. There’s going to be that nation of people who are interested in some new Medium. What can I find in this from their point of view completely unexplored space. They’ve never done anything in terms of trying to learn from Audio. So I I think that’s ah ah, a really well positioned place to be.

12:31.68
Leekei
So men all the cost on your say.

12:41.30
Leekei
Um, it wasn’t intentional. Really, it wasn’t intentional but because I’ve started and um, but I think it’s just like you know when you have the habit and you’re. Mind is from in a certain way. It’s really difficult to get rid of it. So Um, because I spend so much time. Um, so much time working this this podcast which is.

13:00.63
podcomm
Um.

13:09.63
Leekei
Well somehow when it started was um, a labor of love. But then when it started when I was trying to struggle to get things out I say okay, that’s it. That’s okay, yeah, you have to sit back and really yeah, why.

13:16.18
podcomm
Um, yeah, it turns into a slog do you I’m wondering about the you you mentioned that and then I can totally see where this comes from you mentioned that the people that who are listening to your podcast there. They’re like incredulous. Why are you interviewing this person about yoga or why you you’re from their point of View. You’re off in the weeds and I’m wondering if you’ve tried to do anything. Um, so let let’s say you were interview me and I’m in the Automotive industry. Um, do you.

13:51.60
Leekei
So God just.

13:51.82
podcomm
Introduce me and try to explain why what I have to say is meaningful or useful to people in the fashion industry or do you try to like strip it down so that they don’t know who the person is like I’m just wondering like what you’ve experimented with or what you might be doing.

13:58.40
Leekei
Yeah.

14:08.19
Leekei
Um, well when I first ah when I start so the conversation I don’t ask.

14:10.31
podcomm
To try to sneak the lesson in like how do you get people in the fashion industry to listen to what these people have to say.

14:25.44
Leekei
The person to make an introduction because um I just well actually now I have. Ah yeah I don’t want them to make an introduction because I want them I out Well, that’s that’s a lot of work. But um, after them after I edit the whole episode I make the introduction I write the introduction.

14:29.72
podcomm
I agree with you.

14:44.86
Leekei
Because I want the introduction to reflect. Ah the men points the men things I have been insight during the conversation and so I just um, let them ah talk but I have them you know I have um I call it conversation guide or something because um.

14:47.40
podcomm
Ray.

15:01.76
Leekei
Um, there are certain things I want to know about them and um, because um, because well the the topics. Um, ah I think most ah, really. Around the topic of why you’re doing this. You know the the why of your business the why are you going? Ah why you’re different and what what is the change. You’re trying to make with your business and so that’s um, that’s a question. Um. That’s a question that is not that’s well I should not say that it’s not quite that that’s a question that is not often asked, but the way I ask it is quite different because because um because I I know that my podcast if I mean if i. Do my podcast and interview the same people asking the same questions like everybody else I will have no value because they are not many people that will listen to my podcast. So if it’s for like the tenth time the person will say the exact thing um that has total no value. So when I’m trying always trying to so do is to. Um, is to ah, lead them to take to share them a part of the story like for example, um I interviewed this um, this designer who’s who’s um, ah, who’s quite. known in the fashion industry she’s at networkt designer the designer and the part of the story that is known in the fashion community is that um her designs have been copied by Chanel. Um, on one of the catwalk and she sued them and she wanted the them she she won the case. So this is the part of the story that um that everybody knows and I see no value in you know, asking her to share this this. Um this um, this same thing again. So ask her? you know I know try to get deeper into the why she’s going. She’s doing what she’s doing why she doing. Why is she creating is design.

16:53.71
podcomm
Same thing again right.

17:06.55
Leekei
And you know try to to understand yeah and to push her to get deeper and deeper and up to the point that at the end of a conversation and she thanked me she said well she said that um I help her. Um I mean she said that. I’m a good interviewer which I Really really believe that I’m not because I’m um because I’m not I know that I’m not ah but um I think it’s just by trying to share her story from another angle. Sorry.

17:36.44
podcomm
Um.

17:41.83
Leekei
But that um yeah to to lead her to tell a story from another perspective. That’s I think somehow I help her um, bring another perspective to her own journey I don’t know if I’m making myself clear.

17:53.26
podcomm
Yeah, definitely when you when you talk with someone and you create a space for them. He gives them the chance to like unpack and and in their head They think you know they open that can and they go like yeah, that’s not worth sharing. That’s not worth sharing and and they eventually go open but this thing at the bottom.

18:07.60
Leekei
Diston.

18:11.90
podcomm
That I wouldn’t have maybe gotten to if I hadn’t had the time to talk with you about it so that that creation of space that’s like 1 of the biggest most important parts.

18:18.96
Leekei
Um, yeah I think ah yeah I think it’s ah yeah, creation of space. Yes, yes, yeah, But what I do as well is that? Um, but you know because the person is known for that for you know, special topic I’ll make a brief I mean I mentioned that in Indian Introduction. So My listeners could relate to say oh this is this person and then oh well I’m going to learn another aspect of her journey.

18:41.24
podcomm
From.

18:48.99
podcomm
It’s really,. It’s really interesting I’m I’m just like fixated on serving people. You know if I have to bend diagrams that don’t overlap the people that I’m serving are in one space and I’m trying to get the the knowledge the gems the wisdom. From this other group that they wouldn’t normally interact with and I think that’s a really a really thoughtful way like you’re You’re really, you’re really going to you’re setting yourself up for the hard work like you’re really picking the difficult like okay I see something in this person that I think will be useful and then I have to like. That the what the person has to say is unnecessary but you have to really like find where is the piece that’s going to land with the people I’m serving.

19:30.86
Leekei
Um, yeah, but I think the gem is at at the intersection of ah of different stories or different approaches. It’s like when you pisses different things that initially don’t make sense together but you just.

19:35.71
podcomm
I.

19:48.83
Leekei
Try to put them aside or then you rise Oh well, you have them. You know you can have um, moments of Serendipity you know, um.

19:57.62
podcomm
Yeah, you find the connection that actually was there the whole time. Well as much as I always hate to say it. Um I think that’s a good place to stop for today doesn’t have to be our only conversation I’m just watching the time. Um, so leaky it was a pleasure and um.

20:01.22
Leekei
Yeah, as well.

20:06.96
Leekei
Um.

20:16.95
podcomm
I keep seeing the I guess they don’t call them garson anymore. The the waiter keeps like going behind you and I keep waving I keep waving at him. Not I’m trying to distract him I’m like Paul disance you play but cool.

20:20.62
Leekei
Um, sorry.

20:27.19
Leekei
Um, sorry yeah.

20:31.16
podcomm
Well thank you for taking the time out and if you haven’t eaten yet I Hope you have something delicious and maybe a glass of wine if that’s your own Petty alo. So thank you.

20:35.69
Leekei
No period. Um, thank you Thank you for having my own lovely conversation.