Transcript for "Education - with Mark Hochgesang"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Kontanine oh the pleasure is allmin Mark better known as hoaggie or more often in the circles that I’ve seen known as hogie ah, which maybe I want to ask that question. But I think I’ll stick to the topic. Let’s talk about.

00:01.40
Mark Hochgesang
I am Mark hogesang thanks for having me on your show. Craig.

00:18.70
podcomm
Podcasting so in the context of podcasting we have these little pre-chats before I press record on these and we seem to find our way to education and continuing education but not in the sense of like let’s go back to school but continuing education in the sense of. If if 1 is a lifelong learner when as you did you go to retire? You’re just going to find something and I’m wondering what was it that drew you into podcasting as this educational thing that you were going to pursue.

00:47.27
Mark Hochgesang
Well I think it started. Um once I did retire from Nike in November I sent out a note to colleagues and teammates and said here are some things I’m thinking about doing and one of the things that seemed to resonate louder than any was oh a podcast I’d listen to you talking about sports. So after reflecting I was like well that’s got to be easier than writing a novel and more engaging and connected and who doesn’t like sharing their opinions right? Even though I’m introverted I thought that was a nice opportunity to meet some people in the sports world.

01:13.47
podcomm
Um, yeah.

01:21.64
Mark Hochgesang
And also kind of express my point of view on a multitude of different things happening in that sports world. So that’s how it all kind of kicked off and as we talked about kind of pre-mic episode here I am a learner at heart and I knew that I was starting from ground 0 but that was invigorating for me. And even on this conversation here. I’ve learned a little bit about Zencastr which we’re using today and I may switch to that. So. There’s this continual sense of oh there’s something else that I don’t know and that’s exciting. So I really enjoy that.

01:49.14
podcomm
Um I I think there’s podcasting to me feels like it has a dangerous rabbit hole about Tech. Um, but then it’s got it’s It’s like a yin and yan like the the horrible technology can be of ah tough. You know mistress. But what you get when you do it right? The audio engagement and the intimacy of sound. Um and I’m just wondering if if you’ve thought at all about comparison to the things you’ve done you know through your professional career. Audio sounds like something you hadn’t really done before like I don’t think you’ve ever done sports announcing For example, um, and was there anything that you learned about yourself when you were confronted with the audio aspects of podcasting.

02:37.28
Mark Hochgesang
That’s a really good question I think in the context of work I was a pretty good storyteller but that would come in the form of presenting via keynote or powerpoint to a team internally within Nike or Diddas or or Easton kind of in the day. And so there’s that notion of weaving a compelling story and keeping people interested and either inspiring or educating or informing and that’s a key component but I think the audio side of it is even more personal even though my audience can be a little little bit larger on average now I’ve got about 125 listeners or downloads per episode. So it wasn’t often that I was in a room in the context of work speaking to 125 people. It was generally smaller. But you’re really speaking to 1 person at a time if I’m on the receiving end of a podcast I feel like Dax Shepard or Anna Ferris is talking to me and I know they’re not that gets up a million an episode. So I know.

03:13.34
podcomm
Um. Um, yeah.

03:27.15
podcomm
Right.

03:30.28
Mark Hochgesang
I Know it’s not that personal but it feels that way to me because it’s going in. You know in a really um, you can’t offer feedback as you can in certain feedback in certain settings like clubhouse. But I find it it kind of an intimate form of communication and I enjoy that.

03:33.31
podcomm
Yeah.

03:46.65
podcomm
I think I’m glad you highlighted the storytelling aspect of it because so I have listened to heavy hitter sports and if you’re within the sound of my voice I recommend you listen to heavy hitter sports. There are I’m not a sports guy I mean maybe like I should be people always said you should play football like American Football I’ve never really been into sports. Um, so I was like I don’t know what I want to listen to Mark’s podcast but I’m like all right, you know, ah in for a penny in for a pound and a few months ago I I think I forget he’s out wear you posted an episode and I listened to it and I was like all right I’m I’m going to listen to the whole thing even if I hate it and I was a few minutes in and I was like. Oh shit I forgot I was supposed to be taking notes like I was trying to listen to review and like I wanted to have some mileposts and I completely forgot and I was actually engaged by the story and I’m wondering if. When you created. Um I’ll leave it you to think of. There’s ah if there’s a particular episode you want to talk about but when you’re creating an episode. Um, do you do you like think about that upfront like how am I going to create a story or or do you just sort of dive in because sometimes you’re doing host on mic. Sometimes you’re. Ah, doing conversations or interviews and you’re mixing that together. It’s it’s really a highly produced artifact. You’re creating so how much of the story creation happens like front-loaded before you really begin creating and how much of it. Do you just dive in the pool and realize that you’re creating a story.

05:08.39
Mark Hochgesang
Well I don’t improvise very well so or at least I don’t think that I do so I prepare and then I spend a lot of time editing as well. So if it’s a guest who’s written the book I’m unquestionably reading their book and I’m thinking about the story arc of their wife or. Maybe the subject matter of that book. So I’m doing a lot of due diligence upfront and I’m trying to think of what would be the most interesting to pull out. Um you know and if I think about somebody who I actually knew because most of my guests I don’t know necessarily ah one I did which is Zach banner and Zach is a um. Pittrick steel or starting offensive right? tackle and he’s also a fraternity brother my sons and so I had met zack at usc a number of times Zach is literally a big man. He’s 6 9 3 60 but he’s got an even bigger personality and he’s funny and he’s dynamic and he’s taken some social justice stands some of which are. Unexpected. He’s african-american and not jewish but he had a lot of jewish fraternity brothers and so one of the Nfl players at the time and this was two years ago this John Jackson said something that was inflammatory off color about the jewish faith and that really spoke to Zach. Hurt him he created a video that had more than a million downloads. So there’s generally something in somebody’s story. That’s a little bit interesting. Well, it’s clearly interesting and maybe not something that everyone knows about and there I’m kind of looking for those elements to kind of dive into um and that’s just 1 example of It’s interesting to one things that surprised me the most. My my podcast is really focused on game changers in sports. Um, that have made a difference and generally they have overcome adversity. They’ve shown resilience. They’ve overcome the odds and.

06:54.32
podcomm
Um.

07:02.20
Mark Hochgesang
You don’t know in what form that’s going to be or how they have achieved that necessarily and I find that interesting as a discovery process but oftentimes faith does come out as an answer and um, you know I’ve had to kind of wrestle with that I mean I’m I’m a person of faith. But in Essence this is not a faith-based.

07:18.45
podcomm
Right? It’s not the thread.

07:19.30
Mark Hochgesang
Podcast right? So I want to be careful about not overloading it with too much of that but I had an interesting conversation with a former colleague at Adidas who had lost his son to drugs ten years ago and Bob basically used that as the impus impetus to create a educational. Awareness program with his son’s University Arizona State and Bob has raised four hundred and fifty thousand dollars since then in that 10 year period of time but in talking to Bob and that was you know one of my favorite episodes in the sense of um. Wanting to do justice to a good man and a good son and tell that story but I will say this after having edited that and listened to it 6 separate times by the time I was literally done I was exhausted because it’s a really compelling story and obviously does not have a happy ending. So.

08:04.33
podcomm
Um.

08:12.71
Mark Hochgesang
But Faith faith was a key component of that as well which I knew that one I knew going into it. So.

08:17.30
podcomm
Were you surprised at how much and um, this is there’s an assumption packed into this question. Were you surprised at how much effort it actually takes to create like a finished episode.

08:22.71
Mark Hochgesang
No.

08:31.11
Mark Hochgesang
Yeah, ah quite surprising I didn’t know and and I love the educational side of it I Love to warn so part of the reason I’m doing this is for that right to dive into it learn something new. Um.

08:32.25
podcomm
You know you had you had this idea of I think I’ll get into podcasting but how surprising was that.

08:49.68
Mark Hochgesang
I can remember taking a walk by myself and I was getting ready for this conversation with Bob Kawimi right and I don’t know that much about the drug alcohol abuse world but I wanted to study up and be proficient enough to have an educated conversation so literally to your point. I’m listening to a couple of podcasts on this longer walk and I’m taking notes on my walk and I bump into an old friend for Nike and he’s like what in the world are you doing, but it is that aspect. Um I think I had shortanged how much time it takes to add it but to the point that you were talking about earlier that seems such a key component right? um.

09:10.43
podcomm
Ray.

09:23.52
podcomm
Um, yeah.

09:26.90
Mark Hochgesang
You don’t necessarily depends on the format of the podcast right? But I think in mine I think you used a term like highly produced I’m doing it all on my own and I love all aspects of it. But I want to spend the time and take the devote the attention to doing it as best I can. What I didn’t enjoy early on was the sound quality leveling and because I’m not very proficient in that regard. But now I use Buzz sprout and they have magic mastering and so that takes care of my need or is as as much as I need. So yeah, yeah.

09:46.16
podcomm
Um.

09:53.20
podcomm
Yeah, 2021 there’s there’s downright magic like ten years ago things that you know took hours now is just like please to apply magical filter. Um.

10:03.76
Mark Hochgesang
Yeah, because you talked about the I think you were employing about the uptake in terms of learning the techniques and the tools and all that stuff and everybody’s got to go through that. Um, that was interesting on some respect but I wanted to get beyond that.

10:10.75
podcomm
Um, yeah.

10:17.23
Mark Hochgesang
Then just focus on content and getting after the things that I really enjoy and I refer to it as game day. But when I have a guest like I have I had a guest yesterday and that hour is the most fun of the whole process in my mind. It’s just talking to somebody like I just love that. Yeah, exactly.

10:21.38
podcomm
Um, yeah.

10:27.89
podcomm
Um, I Totally agree. Yep, the part between the tarp part between record and stop. That’s my favorite part I Love that part. Um, at which I went to the great trouble to create this podcast so that I get to press record more often.

10:36.95
Mark Hochgesang
Yeah. Yeah, well you know and it and in some respects. It’s just like sports which is why I call it game day right? It’s no, you know it’s like in order to perform whether it’s 3 hours on a football field or 2 hours on a basketball court or three and a half on a baseball diamond. It’s the preparation that goes into it. It’s the practice that matters right? It’s the due diligence.

10:44.98
podcomm
Yeah.

10:53.99
podcomm
Um.

10:59.54
Mark Hochgesang
On our end to know you know who we’re talking to and the like and then once the game takes place then it circles back and you’re doing the same thing over again, right? But that’s the beauty of sport and I think podcasting too. There’s an endless array of sports stories that I can dive into.

11:08.54
podcomm
Now. Yeah, um, have you given a thought to so yeah, might press the backspace key I personally find it an ongoing not quite a struggle ongoing effort ongoing challenge to figure out how much of me should. Be in the shows that I create and this this show which I refer to as a drag racing streetcar like it has no doors. There’s no seatbels it just goes 0 to 60 and then it stops. It’s just 20 minutes quick so this one has a lot of me in it but other the other projects that I do sometimes I feel like I shouldn’t be I’m going to say air quote seen I shouldn’t be heard that. That my presence in the finished thing would detract from um, like the stories that you were talking about or I’ve had some guests talk about suicide and and I’m just like ah I know that I have a responsibility or that I’ve I’ve chosen to take up the responsibility to be here to create this thing to record it. But I also feel like I really. Don’t know that I’m qualified and maybe I shouldn’t be here doing this. Do you do struggle with that in in the podcast that you create as well.

12:18.27
Mark Hochgesang
I do so especially now because I’m only 13 episodes in right? So I will share some things about myself or my family if I think it’s relevant to the story. But there’s that fine line I don’t want too much of myself coming into the podcast I think one of the challenges one of the things that’s unfortunate about podcasting is. You don’t necessarily know who’s listening other than the people who reach out to say you know good bad and different and you don’t know necessarily what really resonates with them unless you have that occasional 1 on one conversation. So I honestly don’t know if people think I’m striking the right balance between myself and my guest.

12:39.29
podcomm
Right.

12:55.53
Mark Hochgesang
Um, generally like most podcasters that have interview settings I’m trying to have a conversation that’s relaxed and feels comfortable for people and hopefully interesting or illuminating or inspiring. But in Essence I’ve chosen a guest in particular because I think they have a story that’s worthy of being told and listened to.

13:09.95
podcomm
Um.

13:14.39
Mark Hochgesang
I have a story that’s ah you know I was trading podcast basically with Suzanne Muir who was also part of the Kimbo program and she’s very accomplished. She’s a business consultant. She’s ah, originally from Switzerland who lives in New York has run Twenty Six marathons has also run an iron man. She’s written a couple of books There’s a reason why I’m asking Suzanne Susannah to talk on my on podcast. She then said oh but I would really like to talk to you and I think to myself. What am I going to offer like I have nothing in that realm. So I’ll I’ll do it for a learning experience which is why I’m doing this but um, on average. I think my listeners want to talk to the guests that I’ve gotten.

13:57.87
podcomm
So we we dove into all this talking about education and I’ve kind of fished around for places where you’ve been surprised or places where you’ve been challenged in the journey and I’m wondering.

14:08.80
Mark Hochgesang
Aha.

14:12.29
podcomm
Have you seen it have an effect in I’m going to call it like your immediate circle. You know, like your significant other your kids or your ah parents if they’re around former coworkers have you seen any changes in them just because of how you have been changed by what you’ve done with podcasting.

14:26.44
Mark Hochgesang
Ah, that’s interesting. Um I think my son who loves sports listens for a couple of different reasons generally because the topics might be on point and something of interest to him, especially when it’s a friend like Zach banner. And then it’s also his dad right? and we talk sports when we’re taking a walk together and the like so on on some level. It’s not that much different than real life I think for my wife who’s still working at Intel I think she enjoys it in the sense that especially if a topic could resonate with some of her friends.

14:50.48
podcomm
Rave.

15:02.17
Mark Hochgesang
Right? Book club members and the like and I and I sent a note to 1 of her book club members yesterday because I just recently spoke to a woman who I worked with a Nike wo Amarick and ors really talented. She’s ah, an hr an hr executive who worked at Nike and Intel and Boeing and the like and now she ah. A master practitioner for the weisisman group and was weisismman wrote the the book multipliers but my guest warri is also devout catholic and her dad played football in Notre Dame so I sent a note to my wife’s friend who has a child who was just recently graduated from Notre Dame couldn’t be more to vote catholic. And a sports fan I was like Mary you may enjoy this so there’s there’s that connection point not all episodes are going to resonate with all people right? and I know that but I think on average. There’s generally something along the way that I can share with somebody that will strike a connection point and one things I’ve been surprised about.

15:46.19
podcomm
Um.

15:56.44
Mark Hochgesang
Isn’t so much the family reaction as people have come out out of the woodwork people that I haven’t talked to at work in Twenty plus years that have reached out now. It may be for the sake of help or interest or just connect you know for a multitude of different reasons. You just don’t know so it kind of ah I guess it keeps you. Not newsworthy. That’s a little too strong of a term but it keeps you kind of in the the zeitgeist so you know rather than if I was just golfing every day and out there with a couple buddies but that was it right? Yeah, my. But but somebody in the nineteenth hole but that would be it. So.

16:16.36
podcomm
Yeah.

16:25.53
podcomm
Yeah, there’s definitely a cerebral itch that podcasting scratch is for me getting to hang out with and talk to people who I don’t want to quite say I wouldn’t otherwise bump into but you know like creating the artificial bookends of like hey we’re going to sit down from X to Y am we’re going to record and.

16:31.29
Mark Hochgesang
Yeah, yeah.

16:44.47
podcomm
As much as we all of talk about having a natural conversation. It’s totally artificial like we’re both wearing uncomfortable headphones. We’re sitting in front of mics. We’ve got computers. We I don’t even know where you are. We’re like we’re at least one hundred miles apart um so it’s a completee the artificial thing but in that.

16:48.59
Mark Hochgesang
F.

16:59.60
podcomm
Suspension of disbelief that we’re both willing to bring to the experience then you can kind of forget all the rest of the uncomfortable stuff and then that makes for a natural conversation for the people who get to hear it.

17:07.10
Mark Hochgesang
What your point makes me think back to how I first got my first guest and I had had some dental surgery that day I’m up a little bit pained. It’s midnight and I’m looking off online. And I went to Usc and I don’t know if you know this story but Jake Olson is the ah the first blind college football player and Jake’s story became obvious to or evident to sports fans when he was 8 and he was basically adopted by the usc football program and he was a huge fan of the program. Went to practice actually the night before he lost sight in his last eye and became totally blind and so I followed Jake’s story throughout the years and then Jake Amazingly he’s a 4 point student in high school. He becomes a long snapper on the team and then becomes a walk on. He gets the scholarship at Usc and then walks onto the team when he’s a junior. Amazing story and I sent him a note because I had looked at a video on wine. Basically you’re thinking about why? How can you be so active in social media when you’re blind and he explains the story and so I sent him a message through Linkedin we had already been connected and by nine o’clock the next morning he’s like yeah no I’d be happy to be on your show. The common bond was were trojans and so but I was like now what do I do like I was so behind in terms of being ready to do this but this is the guy that I most wanted to speak to and then a similar story with Jim Morris who is the star of the disney film the rookie who becomes a ah age league pitcher at the age of 37 same sort of thing. I had cheered up multiple times in the movie I had actually cheered up in a sandwiched aisle on an airpoint reading his book. So I’m like of course I want to talk to somebody like this right and he was so gracious to also say yes so that’s how it all began.

18:57.30
podcomm
There’s something about I Want to say there’s something about podcast guests and I’m guessing. It’s probably because we so like who we choose to focus on but I’ve like talked to hundreds of people and they’re all really nice and and there’s something.

19:08.14
Mark Hochgesang
Am.

19:10.93
podcomm
If you go to the supermarket. It feels to me and maybe maybe this is me maybe the difference is me if I go to the supermarket I don’t feel like there’s 50 awesome people in here that I want to talk to or or like on the highway when you’re stuck in traffic and people are like honking and beeping but something about hey Mark do you want to record a podcast. It brings off the it either brings out the best people or it brings out the best in people I’m not sure which.

19:30.44
Mark Hochgesang
You know it’s interesting makes me think it’s almost tribal I’m going to tie it back to sport as well. My son played high school and college lacrose and I was not exposed to that sport. But I think everybody in lacrosse whether you’re the best in the game or you’re just starting out wants to help each other. And I feel like podcasting in some respects is that same world where you know so much more about podcasting than I do but you’re willing to impart knowledge and vice versa I may be able to offer something to somebody else who’s just starting out or maybe even more advanced. And it’s just a different perspective or it’s a tool that I’ve used or it’s a different angle or it’s a set of questions or whatever it might be so I think there is that communal aspect that makes people when they go 1 on one on a podcast want to help want to share want to be connected. Um, but you’re right if I think about going out as I may have to later on to our local grocery store or Fred Meyer which is what we call it now in no way am I going for interaction with people I’ll be nice as I check it out. But.

20:34.40
podcomm
Yeah I I can be nice.

20:37.60
Mark Hochgesang
If somebody’s coming down my aisle. No I’m not starting a conversation going hey tell me about a time when not happening.

20:40.70
podcomm
Um, yeah, well Mark um I think that’s a great place to stop I love never ceases to amaze me how 20 minutes into it. The guests are always I want to just let them talk forever like thank you so much for your insight. Ah, super appreciate. Quite honestly I’m still listening to I’m actually subscribed I’m still listening to your podcast I’m way behind way behind, but every time I listen to one I’m like you know what? that’s um, yes, that was really good I’m I’m not even speeding it up. You know the kind of thing. So ah.

21:01.67
Mark Hochgesang
Well thank you appreciate that.

21:11.16
Mark Hochgesang
Well thank you. That’s very nice.

21:14.33
podcomm
Please keep doing what you’re doing. Um I think you’ve done a great job so far and I can’t wait to see what else you create and I’m totally with you on the education long-term thing so so pleasure all right have a good day Mark bye.

21:22.36
Mark Hochgesang
Great. Well thank you, Everyone enjoyed this. Thank you.