Transcript for "Editing - with Christi Cassidy"

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00:00.00
Craig
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome this is the podcaster community show short conversations that are not just about podcasting as I’ve said before because I like to take the scenic route. My guest today is Christi Cassidy welcome Christi how are you this afternoon.

00:14.96
Christi
Hi Craig I’m doing great nice to be here.

00:18.61
Craig
Glad that you’re doing great. It’s expletive hot these days. Um I think the place I want to start today is like tangentially off of your your depth of experience and knowledge around books. And I’m all I’m thinking particularly around book editing um and so so you have a podcast congratulations and I’m I’m wondering was there anything that you found like from book editing that is like a.

00:45.26
Christi
Um, thank you.

00:56.39
Craig
I Hate to overuse the word superpower but like something from book editing that you felt like you had a leg up on that. Maybe you see other people making mistakes in or are you surprised at how your editing skills didn’t actually turn into superpowers when you got to podcasting.

01:18.45
Christi
Editing experience actually has been a big help in learning to edit podcasts I don’t particularly like to edit podcasts. But. Using the transcripts and using descript I have resisted reading reading and editing the way I would a novel say but I’ve learned that every.

01:41.81
Craig
Um.

01:50.26
Christi
Guest has their own verbal ticks and sometimes I don’t even see them till I’m starting again to go through or I don’t see them toward the end. It’s just like an author authors all have their own little ticks and weirdness is that you have to. Delete get him out of there I have 1 guest. You know what? I mean to say you know what? I mean you know what? I mean this last one you know you know and all that stuff you know all that stuff so in that sense. It’s very much like like book editing.

02:14.36
Craig
Yes, yes, um.

02:29.90
Christi
Do think I had a leg up I do from even if I didn’t use descript and the transcript along with it as I’m listening I often close my eyes or I’ll look off to the side and I I can hear it. Can hear it because I love radio so much and I’ve listened for years really? um, 2030 years I listen to radio every morning I listen to radio shows and now I listen to podcasts on top of it. So I can hear certain things. Not that I’m great at that. but but combinationmodation yeah those book editing skills and listening all those years to the radio.

03:10.00
Craig
It seems like there would be I mean I can I can work an editor you know like I can work the backspace key but I don’t know how to actually edit with a capital e and it feels like there would be if you’re good at editing um text novels for books. You need to understand the experience of the reader like you have to understand all right as the editor I see what the author is doing like I conceptually see what they’re doing but that’s not going to work like the readers aren’t going to get it or this is going to be in the way or this is that’s a good that’s going to work or this structure is going to function. And I’m I’m wondering how you learned so to me that feels like ah that’s a subtle thing to yeah I’m literally kneedeep in the text I’m knee deepep in the relationship with the author with the story but yet I’m able to make sure that I can when I’m done I can hit the save button and it’s a book. That people can read and they can get the experience and the or the ideas that the author was actually intending. That’s a skill set to me that I feel I don’t have in in editing text and I’m wondering. Did you have a learning curve when you went to podcasting like the way you were describing looking at Descript. Which has absolutely nothing to do with how people consume the things that we’re creating and and you made an excellent point about looking to the side like being mind that you are mindful enough to go? Yeah, okay, but the experience of the listener is actually me averting my eyes just listening with my eyes closed. So I’m just wondering if you had to work to learn that same like parallel skill of being able to like go really deep into the creation of the podcast but yet still be able to go. That’s not what the people listening are going to experience they’re going to experience you know just the audio. Making sense like so there’s a parallel there I feel that speaks to like how complex editing for text is and I think editing for audio is is equally complex but somehow different.

05:16.94
Christi
Was very different I am still I’m still like it’s a steep learning curve and I don’t even see the top of the Hill in sight. It’s true. It’s um, what’s hardest for me at this point.

05:24.74
Craig
Um.

05:35.59
Christi
Is understanding the story ah getting the arc of the story which in ah in a even a nonfiction. You can find the story chapter by chapter you can find it through the whole book and certainly in fiction as well. Even in a short story even in a poem. This is a little different because people meander this way and that when you’re talking to them and then am I supposed to rein them in or am I supposed to follow them and what is the experience of the listener you want to surprise them I don’t think I’ve surprised anybody yet I would like. That that might be a goal to surprise the listener but it’s it’s hard. It’s hard finding that story and everybody of course talks about it and all the prose you know in their newsletters and books and I’m like.

06:12.58
Craig
Um.

06:29.94
Christi
Where is it where is it help me out I know it’s here somewhere.

06:34.16
Craig
Um I agree with you right? There’s this idea of the arc and I’ve had I’ve done podcast episodes where we’re talking about creating story arc or finding story and I’ll ah I’ll admit I think I’ve said this before that I don’t I actually don’t pay any attention. But I don’t pay attention ah at all because in in this particular show I know I’m not going to edit at literally anything at all. Let alone try to like decide. What Story Christie was actually trying to tell even though. You know I gave her no time and I didn’t give her any questions and she had basically no warmup and it’s just it’s just a conversation. So I think for me I think knowing that if I wanted to share stories then what I’m doing sucks horribly and. And like for me, it feels like it actually makes it simpler I’m like wait all right I’m not trying to tell stories. So I’m not going to I don’t want to say get lost in the rabbit hole because it makes it sound negative but I’m not going to go off on the the long journey of learning how to tell stories when that’s not what I’m doing. And instead I have other things that I do that don’t revolver around editing but other things I do about how do I create a conversation how you bootstrap that you know so I say 0 to 60 and be done in 20 minutes and I I think it took me a long time to realize that I kept going. Okay, if story is so important how do i. Put skills related to uncovering story or better telling of story. How do I put those skills into what I’m doing and my answer is I don’t unless I’m doing it completely subconsciously I don’t because it’s not a thing I’m not pushing back. You’re totally right about story. But I think your your podcast episodes you’re you’re doing. All the things that I’m doing which is bring another person in and you’re trying to tell the story I’m like oh that’s even harder like I think that’s even harder to do so I I applaud figuratively I applaud you know your diving in and saying I’m going to have this long form conversation with someone and then I’m going to try and create. Ah, thing that’s even better than the experience that you had in the moment.

08:46.66
Christi
But maybe that’s part of this learning curve this whatever speed track that I’m On. Um, now I’m now I’m mixing my metaphors but um is to learn to let go of that. Story thing but it comes back again and again in the editing process. It’s like you don’t want to bore people sometimes when I listen to my own I’ll be like do to do? It’s like where do I get Distracted. Uh-oh that was supposed to be the important part of the story.

09:16.90
Craig
Um. Yeah, but your experience like you know literally Christie’s experience of listening to Christie’s episode that’s literally an experience. No one else is ever going to have I don’t like to listen to my own work. It took me a while done hundreds.

09:21.12
Christi
So it’s it’s yeah.

09:30.78
Christi
Um, as correct.

09:37.49
Craig
And it took me a while to even be okay with like okay I can listen. It doesn’t make me sweat I just I don’t care like I enjoyed the conversation if anything I do I would say not every day but multiple times a week I’m in some transcript from something that I’ve done. So I do go back all the time I go back to my notes I go back to transcripts but that’s craigszi. That’s me going back to the experience that I have but I’m looking for something like I’m looking for of something they said or I’m looking for an idea that’s in the back of my head. So I think I feel like I’m back to this idea of. As podcasters. It’s really hard to separate ourselves and understand that like who’s it for It’s not for literally Craig I’m not making these episodes for Craig and Christie’s not making hers for herself and that’s super hard is. Like I I dont say I struggle with it. But that’s a thing that I’m always thinking like I feel like I should change I wait Craig or do you want to change that because Craig wants something different out of what’s happening or is that something that would better serve the people so to me, it’s like a constant pull and I like your point about you know the the journey that you’re on and maybe that’s. Maybe my hope should be that I’m always um, feeling that pull to like oh I feel like I could change this but no the way it is is actually the right choice.

10:56.80
Christi
Um, that’s because Craig you you exhibit such? um, honest curiosity about your guests. It’s really it comes through It’s so natural and maybe. Somewhere along the line down around episode None or None or 9 you had to get learn to give something up right to give it up and that is not for you obviously. But also that is very freeing right? Not worrying about story. Just let’s have a conversation.

11:19.34
Craig
Um.

11:27.39
Craig
Um, yeah.

11:31.92
Christi
But still, it’s your curiosity is what makes the podcasts good.

11:35.66
Craig
Yeah, thank you for saying so I I do hear that often. So it took me a while to I’m going to say I always believed that it was true but it took me a while to really feel like I don’t have to try and do anything else. So ah, you know teen. 20 year old 30 year old Craig would often have been the class clown nobody’d want to hear that podcast and now I feel like just or simply being curious is enough like like Christi you know in the back of my head was like. Book editing I want to make sure that we talk a little bit about book editing I didn’t have to be like I too. Want to be a book editor and I once edited a book I didn’t have to like show up and be that person I could just be like book editing tell me more like it took me a while to realize that that was enough that simply being curious was enough to make it interesting for other people to listen to it because for me I feel like. Okay, people find that interesting I don’t know it’s that’s just the that’s the juice I’m steeped in I guess.

12:35.15
Christi
Your company. Yeah, it is and now you’re going to have new art even for exciting right for I So was I not supposed to bring that up right.

12:42.47
Craig
Ah, no, it’s that’s all good. What what do you? What it specifically are you referring to.

12:52.27
Christi
Aren’t you doing new art for we’re doing new art. The cover art. Yes.

12:53.77
Craig
Oh oh, the new, the new cover art. Sorry yes when you said, but you said art I and I envisioned like real artists I don’t consider myself an artist I’m like what are you talking about? Um, yeah for the other. Yeah so I was torn I was considering doing it for this show as well. But I don’t want to change too many things on one weekday um but what krisie’ is referring to is I for the other big project I have called movers mindset I was doing it that we do a mix of long form and short form so we do short ones like this and for these because I don’t want to torture the guests to get them the semi head shots a lot of the people are are they don’t have had they don’t have the photography in advance. I’m just doing a graphic like I do for this show. They’re nice. They’re okay, they have the colors it works and name but but for the long form ones for mover’s mindset we were going to the trouble because most people are a little more well-known they’d send us their headshot. We’d headed it and I love them so much more because when you look at the episode you see the person. And and not me I want you I want to see the so that I was like well how I can’t I did it one this morning and I’m like how am I going to do this without bothering people. So then I went in this long rabbit hole and I figured out how to make cartoons like click click click done out of images. And it works pretty good I can take a crappy screen snapshot None pixels square and I can turn into a cartoon and you can recognize the person. Um, so that that to me was something where I went. I think everybody else would enjoy seeing these people that I’m talking to they want a face to go with the voice and I I spent weeks you know talking to people and trying to figure out exactly how to do it and the final process literally just takes me seconds. Um. And that’s a case where I I get to see Christi like I get to look at Christi for 20 minutes while we talk. So I don’t need a picture to remind myself of the conversation. But that’s ah, a good that’s a good um closed loop you bring up there about that’s something that I did change not just because Craig wants to change everything but because I think. People listening would get more if they can get an idea of who that person is and now I feel like I have to change the episode artwork for this show too. Thanks a lot.

15:00.70
Christi
Ah, probably you will but isn’t it interesting that all this audio and the the auditory senses and yet it’s still is this a function of social media. It’s still we. You know were drawn to that picture of the Face. We’re drawn to the picture of the animal right? That’s um, who is it someone said that there was ah ah Nielen did a ah test where people wore little skull caps with diodes on them and when they saw the pictures of people and animals.

15:20.41
Craig
M.

15:32.55
Craig
Yeah, yeah, the brain lights up. Yeah.

15:35.92
Christi
Everything all the interest things started buzzing in their brains as opposed to not. It’s just fascinating to me and I don’t think it’s just social media can’t be right.

15:46.12
Craig
No I agree with you. it’s it’s yes none of all people are hardwired for facial for recognizing faces. Um, but I I’m okay with um, my effort you know and I know you’re not pushing back on my cover art but like I’m okay with. Having visuals that go with podcasts I’m even okay with people who want to put them on Youtube with video although I I find it’s much harder to get a good conversation when there’s video being recorded and I gotta talk about that for hours but putting visuals on our podcasts I think that’s important. And that like we spend a lot of time on our show cover art to try and get something that fits in a thumbnail that’s that’s visually interesting and that’s important because we’re um, figuratively asking people to change context. So I’m asking you to be on Instagram and then to actually give a flying figlet about my audio podcast and change over to your podcast app. So I think you know in that sense I’m willing to do some extra work I’m willing to say yeah, okay, we need to have good artwork on our stuff like like why don’t I just have a white block that says movers mindset the beatles white album get a little lazy here guys. You know, right? yeah.

16:51.93
Christi
Um.

16:54.42
Craig
But in that sense everybody just went Beatles and bought the thing but why do albums why did albums have cover art on them because you were supposed to like pick it up and go ooh this is interesting I’m going to buy it and I’m going to carry it home and put it on the record player or all that stuff. So um, oh and the s exactly.

17:06.70
Christi
And read the back of it I mean that was the other part of that right weren’t that they were shrink wrappped so you couldn’t even open them up or nothing.

17:13.80
Craig
Oh yeah, shrink wrapped and you had to yeah well they’re like books right? You got you know the the front the whole the point of the whole front is to get you to pick it up right? Um, is this right? and then the then the whole point of the back is to get you to open the front cover to read the inside like everything has a you know ah a ratchet There’s a little um I’m somewhere along the way I heard the metaphor of a beach. If. You’re trying to get people to do something by your booklist your podcast join your thing. Whatever it’s a long gentle beach slope and everything along the way should be a small ask and they shouldn’t feel like it’s a None ne-way. Can’t back up and if at the end of the beach. There’s a thirty foot vertical cliff. They’re never going to do that last step. It’s got to be a nice beach all the way. Um.

17:49.40
Christi
Yes.

17:51.36
Craig
And I I feel like you make a good point about about Albums I’m I am old enough to have bought albums in record stores. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.

18:00.54
Christi
They’re popular again is that a trip but what can we do? There’s a I don’t know I don’t think I have I don’t think I have it in me ah to start setting up a whole turntable and.

18:16.37
Craig
Yeah I think they actually make Usb ones now turntables the usb Jack I’ve been tempted. Um, but I actually I have a cousin a really close friend of mine. A None cousin who I gave I used to have a really good.

18:16.93
Christi
Speaker set up anymore.

18:22.81
Christi
Um, but.

18:33.27
Craig
Turntable. It was my dad’s and I gave it to him in and the whole vinyl collection and every once in a while I make him promise because he listens to vinyl a lot I’m like play they’re grateful dead really loud or something. So so all that stuff still does get used. But I’m off on a tangent. Um, how about 1 last quick question as our time slips away. Um, what’s something that you’ve wanted to do with podcasting.

18:46.70
Christi
That’s just yes.

18:52.65
Craig
But you’re kind of afraid if you start it. It’s going to eat your life.

18:55.99
Christi
Ah, oh I know exactly what it is. It’s mixing and matching voices it interspersing music bringing in outside sounds and. Baking the podcasts have a little bit more depth now is that totally like Npr yes, but I don’t care because they’re more interesting to me that if you can put in. You know if you’re talking about the beach and all right I won’t go there.

19:24.80
Craig
Um, ah.

19:27.95
Christi
Because you were just talking about the beach. So. That’s what made me think of the sound of the Beach. Um, but sometimes you know words are nice, but it’s that’s a great thing about audio unlike books where that words are all you’ve got right? but. With Audio. There’s just so Much. There’s so much more that you can play around with so and multiple voices without being a roundtable but bringing in points of view and bringing in I don’t know that’s that’s what I’m thinking more more depth.

20:00.78
Craig
Um, everything. So if you’re out there listening you should reach out to Krisie if you have resources or manpower and you would like to help her do an experimental episode. She would love to direct it without having to push all the buttons.

20:03.62
Christi
More layers of of sound.

20:16.65
Christi
Um, yes, yes, so.

20:18.81
Craig
That’s an excellent idea though. Yes, cool all right if people want to hear your show catch up with you find you? where should they go.

20:26.33
Christi
They can go to the name of the podcast is moving along and they can go to Apple Podcasts or Google podcasts or anywhere they get their podcasts and search moving along a podcast. It’s with me Christi Cassidy the website is not up yet. That’s another part of the goal so give it a month and maybe but it’s always something but I’m there on Linkedin and um’ there on Facebook and Instagram and everywhere else too. So.

20:51.65
Craig
It’s always something right.

21:02.62
Craig
Outstanding. Well Christi as much as I always hate to say it I think that’s a great place for us to stop today. So I will just say thank you so much for taking the time.

21:08.47
Christi
Thank you Craig. It’s been fun in.