Transcript for "Creativity - with Terry Price"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine

00:01.35
Terry Price
And I’m Terry price I’m a writer photographer I’m a certified labyrinth facilitator and a podcaster I can finally say that Craig.

00:09.96
podcomm
Um, book I’m Terry um, I’m laughing at finally what do you mean? Finally, this is not just the beginning you are well into your journey I love to talk to people like everything we do on this show was related to podcasting in some way shape or form. But I I love to find where. People’s previous experiences overlap with podcasting because you know we all know podcasting pretty well and then it’s these need little insights we get so when I was talking to you before you mentioned coming from an audio background from an sorry from an analog background. And that for you tech was the challenge and and what I’m curious about is what you know when you think back to the I’m going to say the analog Terry when you think back to the analog Terry what was it about digital and about podcasting that that really felt like it was something you wanted to move into.

01:04.12
Terry Price
Um, well it It was not digital per se it’s digital was the necessity If you’re going to do podcasting Now you’ve you’ve got to be digital and so when I went through college I majored in communications and radio and television and did quite a bit of radio.

01:10.48
podcomm
Right.

01:23.21
Terry Price
Ah, did a lot of play-by-play work with sports did some news did a little television and did sports casting there and all that involve storytelling and I love storytelling I’m a writer and so I like working with words.

01:24.63
podcomm
Ah.

01:39.16
Terry Price
And in keyboarding and physically writing I love all of that. But there’s something different about the oral story I mean ah you know all the stories and things that we do nowadays all of that started as oral storytelling and so that’s always been close to my heart is is an oral storyteller. So.

01:44.86
podcomm
Um.

01:51.40
podcomm
Yeah, that tradition.

01:58.69
Terry Price
When podcasting came along by that time I had transitioned out of my radio and television career and it just seemed like a natural fit for someone who likes to write likes to tell stories and now I could do those stories. Um, orally and so the trick was then. In the old days with analog and you had to work with tapes and physically yeah, literally splicing and putting those together and making them you know sound good. Yes, it literal. That’s right literal cutting room I get fickled nowadays when I hear.

02:19.31
podcomm
Um, literally splicing right? Yeah and the cutting room floor. It’s a literal thing this stuff falls on the floor. Ah.

02:33.81
Terry Price
Ah, people with digital equipment say yeah lift that on the cutting room floor. Yeah well you know you didn’t yeah yeah, yeah, so with with the computers in the digital world and everything in order to have really good quality. It had to become digital at some point.

02:36.37
podcomm
Yeah, or or I hope I get good tape as some of them like um yeah I know what you mean, but that’s not how that works. Ah.

02:51.48
podcomm
Right.

02:53.28
Terry Price
And so I did not want to do analog and then try to do some converting and things and so got up to speed with some equipment and tech and feel good about it feel reasonably competent with it and so I’ve been doing it now for some months and I just dearly love it it. It is scratch the hitch that I.

03:13.36
podcomm
Do you um you know go out on a lamb. Do you feel like it’s also this multi-armed hydra that just tries to take over your life because I feel that way because it’s once you figure the tech out. It’s actually really easy. Oh oh, you just hit this button and then I could just make 17 hours of me talking to a microphone and then you got to deal with that right? like it’s.

03:13.39
Terry Price
Hoped it would.

03:26.83
Terry Price
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:33.48
podcomm
It’s so easy really to do but then to make ah to make the thing that matches your vision or your imagination is really hard. So How do you if you agree with me. How do you wrestle with that octopus of like yeah now I can dig this huge hole Then? how do I How do I find the time to edit how do I find the time to. To do the editorial and the script writing Beforehand and how do I decide what I want to talk about and what I don’t want to talk about how do you wrestle with that.

03:57.14
Terry Price
Well and that’s that’s a really big question and and first of all I do agree with you with regard to the octopus hydra analogies. Um, and and as a creativity coach I mean 1 the basic tenets that I try to coach and teach is that everybody’s a creative. Ah, we all have things we can go back to our childhood and figure out things that we did while we played that made us happy. Those things are still there. It’s just that in a lot of cases that we we quit doing them because they are supposedly frivolous. Um, they’re not making money and so we’re.

04:21.82
podcomm
Um.

04:35.94
Terry Price
No longer have the ability or permission I should say to play so along with that concept of creativity. However is this notion that whatever you do If you are really being creative. You’re bringing forth something that previously didn’t exist.

04:37.82
podcomm
Brave.

04:51.49
Terry Price
So all of my notions of what my podcast would be were helpful to instigate. But in reality it’s a work in progress. You know I discover something new. Um I did a script for the first one and I thought gosh I really liked that. But what if I do this. And then I interview and then I start pulling in sound effects and then I start so all of that is energizing and exciting and fun but to to try to figure out where you’re going and then to find new directions as you are going along the path. It does require more time it does require more energy and so sometimes it can become a little a little daunting as well as exciting but but I do love it. I do love it. But but what you’re saying is right now we’ll say one other thing and that is that a good friend of mine. Told me 1 time because I’ve been very active involved in a lot of things and she said Terry you need to understand just because you can do everything doesn’t mean you should do everything and so um, I’m a big fan of ah to web site and and a culture community abbey of the arts.

05:54.98
podcomm
Um, yeah.

06:08.32
Terry Price
And they teach this concept of we We generally know what we want to do or or we use in spiritual terms What we’re called to do Okay so we’re pretty good at that. But the concept that they introduced to me they call that your spiritual. Yes.

06:17.19
podcomm
Right.

06:26.96
Terry Price
You’ sacred yes but they say if you’re going to do your sacred. Yes, you’ve got to learn a sacred. No you you know you can’t just be adding taking a bucket and saying okay well now I’m going to do this and I’m going to add podcasting to this I’m going to add this to this. Oh I’ve got a family. Oh I’ve got to eat too. Um, and then we have a you know pandemic.

06:33.95
podcomm
Yeah, yes, yes I say so I suggest.

06:46.79
Terry Price
Um, that you have to be able to say all right if I’m really going to do this if this is something that’s really essential for me then what is it that I can let go of and so that’s part I mean it’s a daily struggle. It’s not a checklist where you know I say oh yep, this this this and oh that’s gone done.

07:03.32
podcomm
Um, yeah.

07:05.52
Terry Price
I mean it really is. It’s a daily struggle because my tendency is to say you want that done I can do that? Yeah, but you know let’s do that? Yeah yep, yes I can that’s it. That’s it Yup yup the ego creeps up and and and says heck yes, you can do that and you have to say you know what.

07:10.33
podcomm
Um, yes, yes I can yeah yes and very very improv oriented. Yeah I Yes and.

07:23.40
podcomm
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you I yes and myself to death like I just how did I wind up with 50 things to do today. But you know for every finger I point out there’s 4 that.

07:24.66
Terry Price
Maybe maybe not but it’s now now’s not that time.

07:37.63
Terry Price
I know. Ah yes, yep.

07:40.85
podcomm
For that point back at me. Oh you know physician eo thyself. Um, so I totally agree with you on the struggle and and I have some ways that I attack that like in particular with this show I I actually made a list and I was like well what are all the things I hate doing I hate editing right? There’s no editing I hate. Post producing intros and Outros there were no intros and Outtros I just deleted all this stuff but I didn’t want to do um and then I well everybody says that but it’s it’s kind of um, that’s the phrase that’s ah, that’s a Stern mistress like that means that there’s no place to hide that means that I need to I need to show up.

08:07.17
Terry Price
That’s brilliant. Ah.

08:12.47
Terry Price
Me Yeah, it’s true.

08:20.43
podcomm
Um, and like I have a certain little pre you know personal like I go through you know, lights and and my stuff and and and like I spend a few minutes specifically on the guest before I show up in the call I have a routine but there’s no excuse like if the call doesn’t happen and the thing doesn’t get recorded and published like where was I hiding because.

08:36.95
Terry Price
Like right right.

08:38.70
podcomm
We did all this stuff that I didn’t want to do so it it cuts both ways and then I have this call to like 1 maybe I can do 4 in one day could I do 6 in 1 you know I like oh do more and so it took me a while like 70 episodes to get into the habit of um and um, ah. What you were describing made me think of this I didn’t realize it but it took me a while to remember that I had said no to a bunch of stuff editing you know all this these pieces and I all of a sudden felt like I had to say yes by stuffing in more actual episodes I’m like no you said no to all those pieces just keep doing a few like.

09:15.22
Terry Price
Right.

09:17.33
podcomm
So even though I know about the yes problem I just automatically tried to do it by trying to schedule reaching out to more people instead of just letting the pace. You know be more organic. So um, that’s just me commiserating to say yeah I agree with you 100% ah

09:20.69
Terry Price
Sure sure.

09:30.38
Terry Price
Well, it’s I think part of it’s a cultural thing I think that again we we live in a culture that rewards busyness that rewards product productivity and so if we have what we would consider to be a down period. We’ve got to fill it.

09:38.81
podcomm
Um, yeah.

09:49.99
Terry Price
You know we could do more So why aren’t we doing more and there’s ah, a sense where we we don’t appreciate self-care as we should yeah and so and and there is this concept of you know, quality over quantity. So and that’s part of what I think I’ve been struggling with a little bit in this morphing.

09:55.23
podcomm
Right.

10:09.95
Terry Price
My podcast to become eventually what I think it will fairly consistently be and that goes back I have to remind myself that when I was doing radio work 90% of it was live and so like you’re saying you know you eliminate a lot of things when you’re doing a live broadcast.

10:26.97
podcomm
The the little light comes on you better say hi right.

10:29.00
Terry Price
Ah, you Yeah yeah, you have you have a cough switch and that’s about it I mean everything else is live and so you you learn how to work through that method and so in starting the podcast however with having the ability to edit. Ah, it became like you say a severe taskmaster. It was like well that’s not exactly perfect. Go back and eliminate that oh you can read Oh listen to that you can redo that portion do that again and and so again, that’s the ego cropping up.

10:54.56
podcomm
Um.

11:06.62
podcomm
There.

11:07.92
Terry Price
And then at some point you start to think nobody’s going to notice that nobody’s going to. They’re if they’re tuning into this. Hopefully they’re not sitting there with the pencil and a pad keeping score of you know? Oh well, there’s you know? yeah, it’s like it’s like ah my gosh. What’s this man doing breathing.

11:17.38
podcomm
Yeah I heard him brave I heard him breathe again.

11:27.26
podcomm
Ah, yeah, yeah.

11:27.24
Terry Price
Um, like a baseball game. You know how many errors how many hits how many errors and people aren’t doing that they’re listening for the content of the ah connection of something that they can walk away from feeling better smiling learning something I mean I think that’s at least my experience with the way I approach podcast.

11:45.65
podcomm
I I Completely agree.

11:46.74
Terry Price
I want to come away feeling like yeah I’ve I’ve made a connection. Um I’ve learned something and that’s something someone else told me 1 time said we need to get past this concept of perfection and focus on connection and so again, that’s you know that’s just part of my journey.

11:59.26
podcomm
Yeah.

12:04.45
Terry Price
In terms of of becoming a podcaster.

12:09.80
podcomm
It’s so interesting to think about like who’s like who’s actually listening is it the you know, um the person who’s like dropped in an episode 62

12:20.89
Terry Price
Right.

12:23.41
podcomm
Um, if I forget to say the name of the show in my intro that matters because they’d be like what am I listening to what is this? Oh you know? but if they’ve listened to all 62 of them any moment I spend doing anything that’s like meta is wasted time. You know like we don’t need to talk about how the sausage gets made and.

12:26.94
Terry Price
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:34.91
Terry Price
Yeah.

12:39.96
podcomm
I struggle with that a lot and in this show I didn’t even say the name of the show. There’s no I’m not even sure I know what the name of the show is so it’s it’s just like in some ways. It’s fun to strip all that stuff off and and think you know maybe somebody would drop in and listen to 1 of these you know who’s like. Ah, former business associate of yours who doesn’t even work in podcasting who just like I remember Terry he’s my friend. They might listen to this episode and they’re not going to judge me based on whether or not I I did the 5 things that you have to do in in every introduction like so I think I do better work. Um.

13:02.27
Terry Price
Right? yeah. Yes, yes.

13:15.78
podcomm
When I don’t focus on on the process and the shoulds and the Qs and instead you know just have pleasant conversations or what I think are pleasant conversations with people. So yeah I don’t have a cough I don’t have a cough switch.

13:16.45
Terry Price
Needs were hiding thrust. Yeah, ah and sometimes those are distractions. Yeah, that Yeah I’ll pretend like I do yeah um, you know sometimes those things can become um, a defensive mechanism.

13:31.47
podcomm
I I do but it’s a it’s a mute button I don’t want to hit the mute button.

13:41.19
podcomm
So.

13:42.66
Terry Price
You know because to me the actual germ the actual essence of the podcast I mean that’s really the hardest and most rewarding part at the same time of of doing this but I can put that off and I can go listen to. 14 different possible music beds to determine what I’m going to use for my opening. You know, ah you know and there are a lot of things that you can do that we’re proficient at we feel like we’re accomplishing something but we’re putting off that which really is the essence of what we’re trying to do because you know it it. It.

14:03.81
podcomm
Yeah, right.

14:16.35
podcomm
Mayor.

14:21.50
Terry Price
It’s important to us. We really want it to be right? and again sometimes we want it to be too right? We want to be too perfect and that’s again I think that’s a struggle for a lot of us I think that’s part of the reason for procrastination.

14:29.10
podcomm
Um, I think that’s ahs I’m telling you I’ve I’ve talked to a lot of people in the context of podcasting everybody says that I’m not I’m not diminishing what you’re saying I’m just saying oh my god everybody says that it’s totally a thing. Um which which makes me wonder what’s um, this this is a hard question but I’ll give you 2 flavors to choose from. What’s something you’re.

14:37.82
Terry Price
No no.

14:48.25
podcomm
Currently struggling with in podcasting or the harder flavor is what’s something that you’re doing because you’re hiding from something you should be doing in podcasting.

14:56.43
Terry Price
Wow. Um, yeah, that’s a great those those are are great questions. Um I think that yeah I think I think the I think the hardest part for me as a creative writer is that.

15:02.65
podcomm
And it’s horrible when you have to choose. Ah.

15:15.43
Terry Price
Um I work basically in fiction and I’m not on any deadlines so you know I can I can sit and muse and look out the window and when I feel inspiration I can take off with it or I can write um as the the author.

15:19.46
podcomm
He.

15:34.40
Terry Price
And Lamont called them shitty first drafts. Um you you don’t have a good second draft or a good third draft you get through the first one and so with pod. Yeah, exactly and so you can throw all of that out there knowing you can clean it up and and make it better and make it right and you can do that in scripting for podcasting.

15:35.49
podcomm
Right. Right? Show me your bad work.

15:54.16
Terry Price
And and a lot of what I’m doing scripting and again, that’s something I’m kind of working on to figure out what the balance is going to be but if I’m going to do this and say I’m going to put out a podcast once a month or I’m going to put out a podcast once a quarter once a week or whatever you don’t have that luxury.

16:08.68
podcomm
Um.

16:13.33
Terry Price
You don’t have that luxury to sit there. You know is that the is that adverb Really the one I want you got you got to push through because there is so much time spent in addition to the actual recording to get that out there.

16:17.75
podcomm
Yeah.

16:29.00
Terry Price
And so you can’t just say okay I’m going to put out one a week I’ll work six days on getting it recorded you. You’ve got to stay on task. You’ve got to push through so that so I think that’s the hardest part for me because I don’t want to let go I don’t want to I want to keep working on that paragraph until I feel like it’s a really good paragraph.

16:44.00
podcomm
Um, yeah I was I Yeah I I Yes I don’t script because almost all the stuff that I do is with other people conversations and.

16:48.92
Terry Price
And for me to do this on a consistent basis I’m going I’m I’m going to have to let go of some of that.

17:03.94
podcomm
Find it really hard to do host on Mike because maybe I just don’t enjoy scripting or I’m like well I probably I should go do that if I if I feel like it’s hard. That’s the challenge I should go work on that but I was just reading a blog post I don’t know if it was a new one or an old one I don’t know where I found it from Steve Pressfield about he had a mentor.

17:17.26
Terry Price
E.

17:21.45
podcomm
When he was first he got I think it was his first agent. The guy was like you know older than marble and and the guy said to him one day at lunch. What’s four hundred and sixty seven minus one and Stephen dutifully went 466 and the guy went no zero because. If the book is supposed to be 467 pages and you’re at 466 and stop. You have 0 books It’s like it’s funny is I was just thinking like oh there’s such deep wisdom in like yes, but you have to finish Craig like you have to actually push the publish button or whatever the definition of done is.

17:46.24
Terry Price
But yeah, yeah, that’s right, That’s right, That’s a great I Love that story.

17:55.90
podcomm
Um, so any more words of wisdom for for people who um, not everybody that I talked to does podcast host on Mike and I’m just wondering since you’ve done so much done so much writing and you’ve also done like live radio work. What maybe insights you’ve brought for those are 2 very different fields right? yes. 2 completely different areas if there’s any insights that you now realize that you got from those places like writing showed you something? Maybe it is just ship it um and and maybe something that came from radio about. You know you got to just keep moving forward like I’m just wondering if there are insights from these 2 very diverse fields that you now realize you’re using within podcasting.

18:33.36
Terry Price
Um, Well right? off top of my head a couple of things. Um one is is that when when I’m riding and I think this is fairly universal if you’re not careful. The ego will tell you here is your knowledge and your experience now put that out there. But for me the joy of writing and I think the joy of the experience of the reader um comes from my discoveries as I put words down and I think that’s part of the fun of doing host on mic because by writing that I’ll start off with a broad concept.

19:03.72
podcomm
Whom.

19:10.99
Terry Price
Of what it is that I’m wanting to to do and then let the words kind of carry me I think it was Flannery O’connor probably several people said this but something to the effect of I’m not really sure what I think until I write it now and I think we’re you know we’re we are that way a lot of.

19:24.62
podcomm
Until I write it down.

19:30.20
Terry Price
Times and so um, ah, that’s part of the joy for me and I’m hoping that as someone decides to sit down and take this 20 minute journey with me that they will start to pick up my epiphanies and my revelations to me. That’s really that when I do a podcast I’m not I don’t have this grandiose idea that somehow people are waiting on my every word the podcast really for me is a journey of self-discovery and it’s one I want to share with other people. You know you have something really good. Happens to you and you want to share it with somebody else and then they get excited and so that’s that’s kind of where I come from there and then the other thing is um, a writing mentor of mine. 1 time said that you never finish a work ever. You never finish a work.

20:06.92
podcomm
Right.

20:24.58
podcomm
He a Wicked amen.

20:23.78
Terry Price
You abandon it and I have always thought of that. Ah you know because we have this concept again going back to perfection that we’re gonna We’re gonna finish it and what he says is you know you you abandon it and in one of a couple of ways one you literally just say.

20:34.16
podcomm
Right.

20:42.60
Terry Price
Never yeah, that’s gone at delete. It’s gone. Yep and then you have another one that you believe in but it’s you just for some reason you’re not pushing through. There’s just something. It’s just not quite there so you set it aside and it’s ah it’s a temporary abandonment.

20:43.86
podcomm
File 13 right.

21:01.40
Terry Price
And during that time your subconscious place with it. You know when you’re off doing something else and then all of a sudden bing and you pull it back out and you’re able to work farther on it and then the third is when you release it whether it’s printed word where you send it to a publisher ah or a podcast you.

21:02.11
podcomm
Yeah.

21:19.29
Terry Price
Finally say you know I’m going to abandon this by uploading it. So I could start on the start on the next one. It’s not that it’s perfect, but it is what it is and we move on we we finish with that and and we turn the corner and say all right.

21:22.40
podcomm
Yeah, good enough right.

21:37.20
Terry Price
Let’s do another one.

21:40.21
podcomm
Terrific Terry um I always hate to say it. But I think that’s a good place to stop. So thank you for I know we we spend a lot of time working on scheduling to get together and I’m so glad that we made it happen. Thanks for taking the time.

21:47.16
Terry Price
Um, well thank you and thank you for your your persistence I like that better than your word. Your word was pestering I don’t like that word I like persistence I never felt I never felt that you were pestering.

21:57.29
podcomm
Ah, you’re very welcome.