Transcript for "Coaching - with Anne Roche"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine and roach is a life leadership coach for men and we met in the podcaster workshop that’s run through akimbo and I understand you’re coming back to take it over but that’s not what we’re talking about today what we decided well actually.

00:02.96
Anne
I’m Anne Roach

00:18.30
podcomm
What we realized we were talking about before we press record was all about coaching I don’t consider myself like a coach if you ask me for 3 words of like what I do I wouldn’t put coaching in my top 3 but you clearly are a coach both as your primary day gig. But also as what you’re doing within. Story skills. The story skills workshop and um, kind of like I have to say you showed up as a student in the podcaster workshop but the coaching shows it’s like it’s you know, kind of it’s hard to hide that. Um, so I’m I’m just wondering it would be easy for me to ask how has.

00:39.81
Anne
That’s correct.

00:46.53
Anne
Um, yeah.

00:56.70
podcomm
Coaching you know in a podcaster workshop because I really will love podcasting right? How is that fed back into your coaching but a better question I think is what are your thoughts on the different kinds of coaching like if you’re officially a coach in any workshop then people come to you with certain kinds of expectations.

01:12.79
Anne
The.

01:15.20
podcomm
Versus like the and I’m air quoting right? Everybody can see this. It’s audio only the kind of coaching that I do when I show up as a remarkable which is more like ah I don’t know but I’m a little further along the path. It’s It’s kind of like a more informal and the expectations that people have of me are different. So what are your thoughts on. Ah, maybe how.

01:17.73
Anne
Um.

01:24.86
Anne
Um.

01:34.84
podcomm
Coaching feels to you in those different sorts of roles.

01:42.11
Anne
That’s an interesting question. First of all, you should call yourself a coach because you’re awesome at it. So I’m calling bullshit on that if you may not call yourself a coach but think there are people who who do um.

01:46.16
podcomm
Um, thank you will um, will agree to disagree.

01:59.46
Anne
It’s interesting because coaching and I this I think gets confusing for people but coaching my experience with learning how to become a coach which was for me a year-long training program is that it is not about giving people answers. Life coaching is not about mentoring or um, consulting. It’s not telling people. This is how you should live your life. It’s really about Discovery and exploration and holding space for a client to do that.

02:26.58
podcomm
Um.

02:36.34
Anne
To do their own discovery and their own exploration and so coaching in akimbo workshops is slightly different because there is a process that you’re helping a student get through but the. Joy and wonder of the akimbo workshops is that self-exploration that discovery and so the podcaster workshop is slightly different too because there is literally a process that you are that you as a coach remarkable as.

03:04.62
podcomm
I just.

03:09.43
Anne
And that you are trying to get a student through right? I mean in the podcast or workshop you are actually teaching students how to start exactly exactly and and not all the akimbo workshops are like that I mean in the story skills workshop. There is a structure that we are teaching to students.

03:14.80
podcomm
Yeah, at the end if you do everything at the end you’re supposed to actually have a podcast show after.

03:29.23
Anne
But we are not teachers we are here’s the structure. You could read it. It’s the process of of applying that structure to your stories and and practicing that and digging into what are the stories you’re telling what are the stories you’re telling about yourself.

03:43.70
podcomm
Um, trying to actually tell or they thought you were trying to tell.

03:46.29
Anne
Impeding the deeper stories that you’re trying to get out there right exactly exactly and so that you know there’s a little less Well I was going to say there’s a little less of that in the podcaster. But that’s not true at all. There is ah there is a structure. There is a process that you are actually trying to teach a student in the podcast or workshop of how to set up a podcast from start to finish and just as importantly, if not more there is that inner. Work that Self-discovery The what is it. You’re trying to say what’s getting in your way of saying it Why What is the what is your voice. What is your voice you know that that discovery.

04:28.97
podcomm
Um, yeah I think there’s always a challenge and I don’t want to say always like anytime you want to I want to add weasel words. There’s almost always this big challenge. So. And this is where I go. Ah okay, yes, I’ve probably seen 3000 people take this course now in different cohorts and there are certain things that happen and like some people breeze through but most people they get stuck on certain technology hurdles because stuff’s complicated and we always joke.

04:58.12
Anne
Um, yeah, um, right.

05:03.37
podcomm
Podcasting is all rabbit holes. Normally you’d think of a field with a couple rabbit holes. It’s just all holes. There’s no field. It’s just all holes everywhere and every single thing you think of you could make a profession out of how do you ask? good questions or how do you do vocal performance like host on mic as we call it and.

05:13.33
Anne
Right.

05:19.80
podcomm
Part of it is just like trying to get students like you know yo get out of the hole like you just get out of the hole and keep going forward. You can always come back just carpet over everything and just keep going and that I think is not what I am so good at so thought I what I asked you? ah you know I’m like oh.

05:22.33
Anne
Um, right.

05:28.00
Anne
Right.

05:37.20
podcomm
Ah, turn the question on myself. How do I feel I feel like I’m continuously drawn to go. Yeah I Know what’s in that rabbit hole. Yeah, and it’s actually kind of interesting. So like I would want to give you a guided tour of like but I’m also like oh no, no no neither reign that in need to just ask them the leading question like well. You know what’s the simplest thing you could possibly work if you skip this or all those you know standard vanilla coaching questions. So for me I can’t even say the word for me. Good coaching is the thing like I resist that because my instinct is to give advice and and that’s.

06:10.95
Anne
Um, yeah.

06:14.61
podcomm
There are cases where that’s useful so thems doing tech support. Yes, please give me the answer but my instinct is to give advice to try and give the answer So when I’m in these roles where it would be better if I just helped help the other coaches help the other people showing up in a coaching mindset. Even if they’re not officially labeled that help the students who have questions.

06:15.80
Anne
Um, yeah.

06:34.22
podcomm
In that place if I just did coaching which is not instinctively my first go to so that’s I think part of why I feel like it’s good work for me to show up in the course is because I’m like.

06:45.12
Anne
Split.

06:48.96
podcomm
Anything I Do you’re like I want to pick this weight up. Oh it’s too heavy. Oh I can just do it. Yeah, okay, do it twice because tomorrow you’ll be stronger. So I feel like I’m working a muscle or or working a mindset that I don’t normally deploy very well or deploy very often. So I think it makes me a better person to be like um.

06:58.14
Anne
And.

07:06.21
podcomm
Think I heard you first say about like don’t leave fingerprints on people. You know don’t leave fingerprints on the process and either my fingerprints all over everything like mm maybe I need to work on that.

07:06.79
Anne
Yeah.

07:13.43
Anne
So you’re saying what I’m hearing you say is that by by being in the workshop and being uncomfortable with not just giving advice but also trying to do this slightly differently your you’re learning and growing.

07:27.80
podcomm
Yeah.

07:32.80
Anne
And and seeing the that that exploration that students exploration I think in the podcaster workshop there Absolutely is a time and a place and a huge necessity for advice right? yeah.

07:43.30
podcomm
Um, which microphone should I buy first here, buy this one.

07:49.23
Anne
I don’t I don’t want I don’t want the answer to that question to be well, what do you feel? How do you feel about that help me what the what arcing equipment do I need yeah like i’t wanna spend 20 minutes on discovering.

07:51.99
podcomm
Um, yeah, how does this Mike make you feel makes me feel like punching you right.

08:02.67
Anne
But at the same time and we see this and and Mark Dick who has been the head of the story skills workshop for the last 7 sessions is brilliant at this? Um, what we have seen in this in the story skills workshop is often those questions those whole those rabbit holes are a place to hide. So.

08:20.23
podcomm
Yeah.

08:22.58
Anne
Before asking before giving the advice or before giving the answer and there’s the air quotes. What is the real challenge for you here. So I kicked up my heels about the tech in the past Caster Workshop I could delegate that that’s such a.

08:42.30
podcomm
Yeah to hide right.

08:42.59
Anne
Bullshit place for me to land right? that it was all about hiding for me. What is the real challenge for me there. That’s the that’s the coaching question. What’s the real challenge for you and for you and in the tech was not the tech because I could hire somebody to do that or I could.

08:56.61
podcomm
Yeah.

09:02.32
Anne
Decide to I Love learning new things I could I could decide. That’s where I want to live the real challenge was I don’t know what I want this podcast to be about yet and I haven’t I haven’t dived into that question deep enough and gotten to a place where I’m.

09:10.72
podcomm
Month.

09:21.80
Anne
Comfortable with being uncomfortable enough to put it forward.

09:23.72
podcomm
Um, so coaching I’m wondering it. It seems to me that you could always find learning within coaching and I think you know most people who who are good coaches would agree with that. Um, and the reason I say this is I have like images of high school teachers who just didn’t give a crap I mean maybe they were great people when they started in the kids beat them like I was part of you know? Okay, yes, we we beat them into submission. Um, but it.

09:47.50
Anne
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah.

09:58.55
podcomm
It feels to me like even in coaching there’s a danger of all right? It’s the eighty seventh time I’ve been through this material and and by the way the coaches for the podcaster workshop. We do change the material things do get changed but it’s not major and.

10:07.97
Anne
So.

10:12.75
podcomm
I’m just wondering like yeah can I do 50 of these and still be like this is awesome or mine is going to be like oh look people running in the halls. Yeah, like it does it does it get old like it in your so I am not a life leadership coach did I get that right? Yes I did im sorry.

10:17.99
Anne
Um, yeah again.

10:25.80
Anne
Yes, yeah.

10:29.64
podcomm
Sometimes I get excited when I get details right? because I tend to forget things. Um, but I’m wondering have you found that doing that type of life coaching.

10:30.82
Anne
Ah.

10:38.38
Anne
Um.

10:40.86
podcomm
Um I gotta to believe in the beginning you’re like whoa I got work to do here I got things I need to learn this is an awesome process for me to show up this way for these people who are my clients. Um, do you think that’s gonna keep like can you keep doing that forever or is there a point where you’re like ah 50 years I’m sick of this. It’s the same problem. Yeah.

10:45.93
Anne
Um, then.

10:53.96
Anne
This again? Yeah I would say um I don’t know the answer to that My My instinct is I mean I was a public defender for a long time and I I remember saying when I get to the place where I’m bitching about my clients. I Need to retire before that happens because I’m here to do to be part of something bigger than myself and to make a difference So As soon as as soon as I lose focus on that I’m not doing anybody any Good. So I if that ever happens with coaching I will I will know it when I.

11:19.84
podcomm
May I do the hard work right.

11:32.48
Anne
When I see it having said that everybody who comes to me for coaching. Yeah, there are themes. There are similar themes. But it’s a little bit but 2 things there are similar themes with everything. And everybody shows up to it differently because everybody’s unique. The the themes may not be unique, but the way they approach them is but my response to it is a little bit like how I discovered yoga to be. Which is you can never master the moves. There’s just always another tweak to make. There’s always another place to go a little deeper in the practice of coaching and that’s what I find so delightful about it is. In that goal of keeping my fingerprints off. Um I can I can you know so I be in a coaching session and I will start thinking about how do I how do I do this better. And lean into that I’m going to you know learning I’ve been doing this now for 6 years learning the the power of silence as a coach as a tool for Mike has been extraordinary and. It’s just it’s like the greatest tool there is for a client and learning how to do that I mean I got the gift of the Gab Craig I will I don’t know that I will ever master the art of silence. So.

13:16.92
podcomm
Um, it’s it’s challenging and I find that it’s easier when you’re in a not when you’re in an asym. Um asynchronous mode like an online forum like I have a rule was like don’t don’t press send like.

13:31.11
Anne
Um, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

13:33.27
podcomm
I might I might right? I’m like it then I just okay I take my lift lifting my hands in the air and I’m like you know I like I think maybe not half the time a quarter of the time in the podcasting workshop I delete things I was going to say.

13:42.96
Anne
Um, yes, yeah, yes.

13:45.10
podcomm
And not because I was going like that’s the stupidest thing I ever was like I was going to give him an answer or I was going to say oh you know you should skip that or you know the the answers coming in section 34 don’t worry but I’m like is that really helping and then that delay like the asynchronous communication.

13:51.12
Anne
Um, yeah.

14:00.89
podcomm
Delay that Affords me a chance to like think about am I doing the right thing am I am I serving the right you know purpose here. No delete. But that’s way harder to do when you’re trying to record a podcast and I think I got better at.

14:03.94
Anne
Yeah, yes, yes.

14:19.27
podcomm
Answering People’s questions like in a coaching mindset like instead of giving them the answer giving them some coaching I got better at the more podcast conversations I did because we’re recording and we’re talking in real time and I have to figure out how much of it should be me telling a funny story and leaping on the swords that we all laugh you know, will laugh track here for a second while the guest catches their breath.

14:21.97
Anne
Um, and introduce the name. Yeah.

14:36.20
Anne
Right.

14:37.71
podcomm
And then what do we do next like just getting better at keeping some perspective like being your own copilot that came from doing podcasts.

14:43.12
Anne
Yeah I love that you said that Craig because that’s the piece of podcasting that I’m struggling with coming at it from a different direction in that as a coach I love. I love being a coach and I love standing next to somebody or or creating space for somebody to have that discovery and it has taught me how to shut up. It’s taught me it’s taught me the. Gift of my own silence is is in isn in being part of somebody else’s watching somebody else’s journey. It’s just mind blowing that that I am in fact, not the most interesting person that’s been such a gift to discover in my life and.

15:19.23
podcomm
Yeah.

15:31.31
podcomm
Um, yes I God All right case I’m going So there’s ah that creating the gift which is silence for them and then.

15:37.24
Anne
Go ahead.

15:45.15
podcomm
Because I record in person I like to go like a home of the layer which is like to create a space both a physical space but also the mental and emotional space so that you can not only give them silence like in the interpersonal interaction but you can also give them like silence like okay, you’re crazy chaotic weekend but you.

15:58.31
Anne
Um, right.

16:02.58
podcomm
I said I want 3 hours your time and you went oh my god 3 hours and I’m like you know? yes please I’m I’m flying across the Atlantic and I have 3 hours and they’re like okay and they punch a wholener schedule and they turn their phone off and like they like so that I think is a thing that is now I’m like see see Craig talk while thinking in real-time I’m thinking I’m missing that.

16:10.45
Anne
We.

16:21.14
podcomm
Something that I didn’t realize was missing in the online workshops because I have we all have absolutely no control over whether the students show up like mid chaos I’m on my phone I’m just checking in from Dr things like stop. Don’t do that like you need to create space but we have no control. We can’t actually do that for them. So I’m thinking that’s something else that.

16:28.88
Anne
Um, right right.

16:36.47
Anne
Smooth.

16:38.99
podcomm
Strikes me as powerful about being a life coach is that you aside from actually holding silence which is super important but you’re actually also literally creating a space for them to say like this is the safe space punch a hole in your calendar and show up. You’re saying to them show up for yourself.

16:54.40
Anne
Yes, yeah, and I have to say when I take on a client I’m really clear about that. We’re not I will not take a client that’s not committed to that process. It’s a gift you’re giving to yourself. Um.

17:03.47
podcomm
For the time. Yeah.

17:09.40
Anne
But that’s interesting Craig about the students because I would say that we don’t have control about how they’re showing up but we do have control about how we’re responding to them and so one of the things that I have discovered in coaching both in my practice. Um, and as a coach in akimbo and I’ve learned this from. Fellow coaches Enrika Greathouse is another coach in the story skills workshop and she’s so good at this which is transparency and so being transparent about what I’m doing and why I’m doing it then then allows the student or the or the client.

17:37.73
podcomm
Just this.

17:47.40
Anne
To understand that this is the gift that this is the space I could answer that question but I want to give you time to think to hear what you’re asking or to hear what you’re thinking about what a what a gift that is you know and then it’s just then it’s the.

18:02.13
podcomm
I moved.

18:06.19
Anne
I I loved when I first came in I Loved that that idea of look at me I know everything I can tell you all the answers I’m that and that and actually that was something I wrote down and my notes to get ready for this call was Ego ego in podcasting ego and coaching ego. How do I.

18:14.16
podcomm
Ah.

18:24.91
Anne
There’s a balance between having the podcast creating the space for ah for ah, a guest to talk and to be the center and to and to discover and also having the host be. You have to let the audience see the creation of that space as the host and that’s that’s the tricky part for me and I get a little excited. My Ego gets a little excited about some of that stuff and so well you know that becoming a coach has been such a gift to me.

18:43.73
podcomm
Yeah, yeah.

18:54.81
podcomm
Yeah.

19:02.27
Anne
Because it’s quieted my ego and allowed space for Discovery and growth and exploration and I just don’t I don’t want podcasting to undo that so I got to be focused on that.

19:17.76
podcomm
I Don’t think that’s a particular danger but okay, um.

19:20.18
Anne
And well transparency is a trend I maybe transparency is That’s where that tool comes in just being really transparent about that.

19:27.80
podcomm
Well, there’s ah, there’s a knack to how much of one’s self is in the interaction that’s recorded so like you know we’re on a video call here. But we’re not recording video. But so if I want to like I can nod emphatically I can you know or I can go like this.

19:44.54
Anne
Yeah, ah.

19:46.83
podcomm
You know which is like a completely different like so I can communicate out of band out of whatre recording and that’s something that you learn to do when you’re podcasting because you have to like stuff yourself, you know, learn to stuff yourself through video or whatever so that showing up for the guest to to co-create the conversation. Um.

19:49.40
Anne
Um, yeah.

20:02.48
Anne
And.

20:06.58
podcomm
I Say to people who ask me questions about podcasting I mean now some point people randomly Grabbb me at parties’s like hey tell me about podcasting and I’m like well you know when you had that really cool conversation with your friend like yeah and it was awesome, right? Did you record it? No okay, that’s why it didn’t get like that’s why it was awesome because you didn’t record it So there’s a balance between one of us like somebody’s the host.

20:16.56
Anne
Right? right? right.

20:26.49
podcomm
And simple case of 2 humans somebody showing up to create the artifact and the other person unless they’re super used to doing this is showing up kind of hoping this doesn’t get weird and they want to have a good conversation and so the host has to also like ideally do as much work as the guest does.

20:36.29
Anne
Right.

20:44.43
podcomm
So that’s why it’s so I think it’s so hard as a podcaster to show up to be a great conversational partner to like engage with other person to hold space for them to create moments of silence so they can say things depending on what your podcast is about right? There’s all this stuff. Oh and in addition to that which takes 100% of the guests effort like I do all that and I got to go.

21:02.95
Anne
Um, Ray yeah.

21:03.75
podcomm
We’re at 21 minutes and 4 seconds so we should probably wind up soon like that is the trick. Um, that that’s the secret magic sauce if you can if 1 canfigure how to do that then podcasting becomes. Like it’s like sheer joy because I’m like oh I get to have this great excuse like hey I’m a podcaster can I talk to you they were like oh okay and I’m like you know it’s an entrance card. You know so it’s wonderful.

21:15.99
Anne
Um, yes, that’s yeah, well maybe that I’m the thing I’m taking away from this conversation is transparency. Maybe the the tool of transparency. Will work just as well for me in podcasting as it has in coaching.

21:35.83
podcomm
I think it would yes I had never thought about it as using that word to describe it. But I’m gonna have to like let that one simmer a little bit. Well terrific and um I think that’s a good place to stop So great. Um.

21:43.20
Anne
Who. Thank you That was awesome.

21:52.50
podcomm
Thanks for showing up. Thanks for taking the time and I’ll see you around.

21:53.98
Anne
Always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks so much Craig bye.