Transcript for "Belonging - with Ric Lindberg"

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00:00.00 podcomm Hello I’m Craig constantine.

00:01.83 Ric And I’m Ri and I’m here because I like Cleig so much. So.

00:06.21 podcomm We had a debate as to whether we would just do the whole thing in character character rick’s got a stand-up desk and as he like ejected the cat from the desktop I saw there was a yoda picture which is directly behind him where you can’t see it unless he moves like that and then I thought. Do the entire interview as yoda shall we but no I can’t do that for twenty minutes podcasting no I can’t do that the whole time and it’s probably like a copyright problem with that too impersonating actual characters. Um.

00:27.88 Ric I Would love that if you do that for me. Um.

00:45.25 podcomm So I’m torn between I have like a process for these right? This is I’ve done fifty plus of them and I can sort of like cultivate a conversation and I just had a conversation with someone where we were like so Meta talking about creating conversations. But I feel more like people might enjoy you and i. But you have a jump in talking more about like communities and like we’ve seen a couple of people learn to podcast and we have a couple of podcast episodes that are out and I’m trying to build a you know a new community and I’m wondering ah, by the way. Thank you you keep yelling at me nicely without caps locking it to like post a business plan like you know, explain the business model for the podcaster community. So I’m wondering if we should talk about. Community building or talk about maybe the shutdown of 1 of our other favorite communities and don’t if I wanted to talk names. Most people will know what I’m talking about um, any of those things jump out at you as like.

01:45.20 Ric Yeah, gladly I Rather look forward than backwards though.

01:48.88 podcomm Yes, I’m a big fan of that. Ah So what do you think about discourse with a capital D The piece of software named discourse I I like I like love to hate it like it’s really. Cool and it’s really clean looking but everybody still has trouble using it. So I’m thinking It’s not as cool as I think it is.

02:14.47 Ric I Love the tool and I think both of you are fans of it. But I think that it’s a hurdle to get into. There’s a learning curve where you need to learn it and I think that’s sad and I don’t know how to make it better but you and I are very very comfortable.

02:22.57 podcomm Ah.

02:33.56 Ric The computer stuff but I find if you’re not, There’s a resistance to start playing around with it so you learn it. But you’re always been my go to when I don’t know how to turn an knob or do something so but again I have you.

02:41.24 podcomm Um, yeah.

02:50.88 Ric And most newbies don’t So and I’ve been thinking long and hard for how to help them get over the hump of learning how to use it because I do really like it.

03:01.91 podcomm Um, I used to think that the Mel you know soon as I say the problem I’m clearly oversimplifying but I used to think that the big problem was that people were afraid to poke it. Um, you know there’s a lot. Like they click on the silhouette or you know, open your avatar and there’s like these things and then discourse keep changing stuff so as soon as you make a screen share. They move something and everything that I knew about discourse I did not read the manual I just I had it in I had 1 that I was running and I just went what’s this do? What’s that do oh I broke it. Support. How do I you know Um, so on 1 hand I I think that if we could encourage people just generally to to poke things more and and then I started thinking like well where did I get that like that’s a mindset that this mindset of. So I read everything is figure out a bull which is a horrible english slaughtering. That’s not grammatically correct. But the idea is is that where I is that where that’s from you know.

04:00.19 Ric But I think it’s a great book from my Marie folio though. Yeah I don’t know but she wrote a book I think that’s name that yeah.

04:10.15 podcomm Maybe that’s or maybe that book is in 1 of my piles somewhere well that would be ironic. Um, but do you see yourself as somebody like you strike me as somebody who can figure things out and it wouldn’t occur to you like. If you decide not to fix your farm tractor. It’s because you value your time more than the curiosity of how does the farm tractor really work like am I pigeoning pigeonhoing you correctly by saying you’re definitely guy who can figure things out.

04:35.78 Ric No, ah well well yes, and no, when are you talking about a tractor I wouldn’t have a clue where to start and I guess interest level has something to do with it. But but um.

04:52.19 podcomm Woo That’s a good point.

04:55.49 Ric If you ask my lady love I’m kind of ignorant about everything except a few very narrow interest slots like computers and computer games and our core and a few few very very narrow areas. But.

05:04.92 podcomm Um, Mo That’s keep going keep going.

05:14.36 Ric No, but but I think if I have an interest in things I will figure it out and going back to what you mentioned with this course I think I have a track record of knowing I don’t know what I’m doing but I know I can figure it out I think what we don’t get with.

05:28.75 podcomm Yeah.

05:34.47 Ric Newbyes in whatever area is if you don’t have that previous experience that I’ve been this lost before and it’s okay or I have backups. It’s burning but it’s okay, ah so if you don’t have those experiences poking the box is scary.

05:42.86 podcomm Um, yes.

05:53.87 Ric Because you don’t know what’s going to happen.

05:54.17 podcomm Yeah, it’s like a mouse trap. Well in that. So hey that there’s there’s the solution to my problem. So I built this new community right? Everybody listening to this show knows what I’m talking about and it’s based on discourse and we actually have everybody’s mom on everybody. 95 ninety percent of them are coming from. Ah ah, multiple experiences with discourse from an online course. Um, so they come in and they understand you know what things generally look like but they’re still ah relatively beginner novice level users of discourse and. I was very mindful of that when I was building like all right? Don’t don’t build structure. Don’t have multiple layers of categories in category just like what’s the simplest thing that could possibly work. Let’s try that and it’s been working really well like people. Message me like hey I couldn’t figure out how to make the whatever do the whatever and and then my first thought is well you did it perfectly you tried and then messaged me which is the perfect course of action. So maybe I should re ah. Move the origins of my graph. Maybe I should recenter my graph to be oh no wait. It’s working perfectly because everybody who stuck messages me which is not a problem until we get to like 5000 people so to keep doing that and then I can have somebody else look at my messages at that point and do some triage. So maybe I should recenter my. Thing and in my mental point of view and say oh well, what’s’s is there anything actually wrong and maybe the people in in this community and other ones that I’ve seen they’re just so expletive deleted excited to see you know to be there. They they’ve figured it out enough. They know how to message craig both that works like.

07:38.58 Ric No I think you’re absolutely right? and I think it’s important to ask ask ourselves is it working and how do we know? Do you have people to sign up who and who don’t post anything including a message for help to you? Ah so because I think.

07:39.90 podcomm Now.

07:57.44 Ric There’s a lot of fuel there for people who want to be in these canon communities who know how to learn and help and ask for help and helping other is a great way to learn the tool by the way so you don’t need to train them. But you’re also having people from albara.

08:07.44 podcomm Yes.

08:17.45 Ric Aes joining who don’t have that experience is going to go like what what is this? How do you use it. It’s scary I don’t know what plain text typing and formatting is it’s scary. So sir.

08:26.68 podcomm Um, Mark it down what the yeah.

08:31.36 Ric So I used to I’m used to Microsoft word and this doesn’t look like it so can it break something can I am I spamming the whole web so those are the people we need to find and I think we have the fuel why they want to come but I also think we need to look at friction. How can we make a few experiments easy for them. So they feel more comfortable with taking things up a level.

08:51.23 podcomm M.

08:59.85 podcomm Um, once more or louder for the other craig that doesn’t always listen I think that that’s really insightful and ah so I’m staring up into my left like I have too much stuff in my head and. Rick can see that and and what I’m thinking is that 1 of the things that I’m that I talk about a lot that I’m really like this is really important is that a significant um you know, right Now. It’s probably also a majority but like a really important. Portion of the content in podcast or community is Public. You don’t have to log in you. You can like land on a Google search and scroll and yes discourse would be like hey it looks like you’re enjoying the conversation and you can be like shut Up. You can just dismiss that and you don’t have to log in and I think I’ve always known that’s important because I believe that. Ah, private Community can really create some gems and then it’s like you know share that stuff is awesome. Um, but I hadn’t realized that I’m also like doing that is also I’m going to say teaching the lurkers I don’t mean that in a bad way teaching the lurkers that it’s okay to just hang out here. You know and scroll around as long as you’re willing to dismiss an occasional notification and and then I haven’t I have a problem with data analysis and I purposely don’t want to crawl up into all the reports. But I suspect that after a while they’re eventually going to find something that oh that’s just so awesome I have to press the like button. And then you have to log in… It’s free. But now you have to like go through a screen and you have to do a thing and now you’re logged in and like things change and we log in then discourse the I wish they would rename the disco the discourse Robot then starts to onboard you with some tasks and I’m really thinking like Wow. The fact that I don’t make you log in and deal with the disco bot on day 1 is probably also a really good onboarding strategy like hey just show up and scroll and and the business model of the plan is such that currently it is working like we have enough people and. You know what I call the inner circle of of really awesome people. Rick Awesome! Thank you! Really awesome people who like put money in the hat and make the thing Sustainable. So Anyway, I’m talking and Rick’s just using me as a this is a coaching session.

11:20.43 Ric And.

11:22.56 podcomm If you say how does that make you feel I’m hitting the stop button. Ah.

11:25.67 Ric Ah, ah so you can tell me with um yeah, so no I think that’s important that I’m really into free content and.

11:28.66 podcomm God of product but you each quit the might.

11:43.46 Ric Removing resistance so people can use that and when they know this is for me then they can vote with their attention first signing up and doing a few of those rituals and then eventually vote with their money when they know this is actually helping or or I want to sponsor because I’ve gotten so much help.

12:00.28 podcomm Yeah.

12:02.26 Ric Again, Nud nudge craig gotten help from you for years. So um, and yeah, exactly so I think I think that is a good model. But I think there’s a lot of people don’t know the robot they don’t know.

12:05.63 podcomm Thank you? How kind you are.

12:19.60 podcomm Yeah, it’s a it’s a little in your face. Yeah.

12:21.77 Ric Do I need to can I Skip we know we can skip it. We can we can ignore it. It’s just a robot. But if you never seen something like that before they don’t know or someone waiting for me is it urgent. Do I need to deal with this right now I don’t know what to do even if it’s quite straightforward.

12:34.81 podcomm Yeah.

12:40.39 Ric But I also think the noise inside or how to reply how to come it. It is a beautiful platform when it comes to discussing and highlighting I don’t I didn’t read all your posts. But I read read these 3 lines and here’s my thoughts.

12:52.22 podcomm Near. Yeah.

12:59.50 Ric Really helps you do that if you know how to play with it. But if you don’t and you see everyone else playing with it. Yeah, that can turn into resistance.

13:07.35 podcomm Yeah, have you seen it that they invented a slow mode have you seen this. So there’s a feature. Oh it’s like so cool. There’s ah they so sometimes have problems where you know somebody will.

13:12.19 Ric No.

13:20.57 podcomm Bring up a hot button topic and all of a sudden. It’s like everybody starts responding and there are all these little magic rules like you can’t and it’s configurable. But you can’t post 3 replies in a row like if you once you get the 3 then it like yeah somebody else has to post so like it has all these things to try and rate limit you and if you’re a certain level user. You can only do certain things.

13:30.85 Ric Yeah.

13:40.49 podcomm But still if 4 hundred people all have a be in their bonnet. You get this raging topic will’ll come up and there’s a slow mode and when you turn slow mode on on a topic. Everybody’s allowed like 1 post every 24 hours it puts in all these written like it just turns the whole thing into a glacier and every time you try to do something. It doesn’t come back tomorrow. You know like it’s great. Um, so they. There’s so much magic. Um, and I love that idea of yeah, there’s a bunch of people behind a curtain somewhere who put in a couple thousand keystrokes and then it just works I love when software works like that. But sometimes I wish discourse had like a show me mode. You could turn on and suddenly everything would have hovers you know like nothing does anything anymore, but everything you mouse over when you click it just tells you what is all this stuff on my screen What’s this do? What’s that do what does this dot dot dot. Do. It would just like tell me all that stuff I put that in as a feature request by the way. So.

14:33.28 Ric Yeah, yeah.

14:35.46 podcomm You know a way to turn on tool tips on everything and disable all the functionality. So I can just see the tool tips.

14:39.56 Ric Yeah, and I think that goes back to feeling safe knowing that you can’t break it which again we know that those who need to know don’t know. We also know that we can press question Mark and get something very close to what you’re describing in our language right? that.

14:55.15 podcomm Yeah, yeah.

14:58.85 Ric They don’t know and even if they see it. They might not be keyboarded people like us so it wouldn’t help them anyway. So I do believe again, it’s a beautiful tool but the learning curve is a bit steep the first and it’s just five minutes

15:02.91 podcomm Um, yeah.

15:17.60 Ric If you give it five minutes playing around you’ve learned what you need to know? you’re not a master but you feel comfortable enough to realize where did my post go. What am I supposed to do right now. Yeah yeah, but but you learn that if if you intend if you’re playing attention with it.

15:26.94 podcomm That happens a lot. Yeah, and.

15:35.17 podcomm Yeah I also I ah in this particular community I’m really being overt or um I may have no Qualms because it’s my house. It’s my living room I have no qualms about moving people’s stuff around and editing their titles and it’s super helpful.

15:37.21 Ric Learn that doing five minutes.

15:55.80 podcomm People um’m like awesome you press post and the fact that you put it in resources instead of public. You know who cares I just change the topic and I hit thing and then you know you can do reply and turn it into a direct message and say you know I move this for you and people are like oh that’s great or because it’s all center on podcasting. There’s a place where we can post our show. And then people post our show and I’m like you know if you put your image in there. It’ll show up so I’m always like trying to help them get more fun and more more bang out of it because I think it’s just so I love when you when you look at something and the more you look at it the more you realize wow a bunch of people I don’t just mean me a bunch of people put a lot of time into this and. And there’s thought here like somebody I think it was annette just started another topic about her field recording Kit. You know she’s got like a ah standard janport backpack and she’s just like wow here’s all the stuff that’s in the bag and then somebody else who I’m actually not even sure I know who it is like I was like who’s that yeah.

16:48.65 Ric Yeah, yeah.

16:50.93 podcomm Responded I Love when that happens I’m like I don’t know that person is somebody responded with like Wow and had a question and then she I think took on her photo and I’m just like Wow like a community you know I just I’ve always had the community Builder Connector bug. Um, for lack of a better term. It’s super fun.

17:08.61 Ric Yeah, know and I and I love that and again we who get it realize that we can learn together here. There’s a new tool in town. Ah, the first early birds take a look at it and then everyone learns to very much foster together or.

17:19.82 podcomm Um, yeah.

17:27.75 Ric Say no this isn’t for us. They’re missing whatever critical function so will wait until they get that so instead of having 2 hundred people trying the same thing discovered the same thing we we move as a group very quick. We learn as a group of we quick. Um.

17:30.96 podcomm Yeah.

17:42.32 podcomm Very quick.

17:46.46 Ric But that’s again for us who knows I think it’s hard when you’re standing outside and you don’t know how how to tap into that.

17:53.90 podcomm Yeah, because it doesn’t look like other things. It doesn’t look like Facebook or even Linkedin or stack exchange if people know you know if you’re geeks and you know what those things are it looks very different and and now when I go to other places like as I’m in a lot of communities for technology stuff and. Go to other places and I’m just like whoa this this is rough. You know me like I know how to work it I know all the controls but I’m just like you. Oh man, you got to do what you like Um, so you get spoiled.

18:19.20 Ric Yeah, and and and I have this structure need when when I’m in slack and people don’t reply in thread and it’s like you’re you’re you know you’re you’re not, You’re not playing with a matter that’s already there like my don’t you do it and don’t you behave.

18:27.81 podcomm Um, yeah, why are you in slack right? Ah no I mean the them if you’re why you were using this tool If you’re not going to use the basic feature.

18:37.52 Ric Yeah, that’s another thing. But yeah, yeah, exactly yeah so um, again, but we know how it can be but a lot of people don’t even have a community and I think that’s the first step banding up with a few people

18:50.80 podcomm There.

18:57.40 Ric That 1 are where you want or um, want to go where you want to go and you’re learning on the job there. But I think thisor is a great tool but I don’t think the tool matters I think it’s startup be generous to a few people and group up and then saying you know? oh.

19:12.60 podcomm Yeah, they’ll they’ll bend it to work. Yeah yeah I like um the way not gonna unpack all the business details but the the way that podcom works.

19:16.33 Ric Yeah.

19:26.57 podcomm Um, a couple of people and the number is bigger than 2 it’s maybe 3 or 4 or 5 people are like um, can I pay more because there’s like a recurring and and I’m like well I mean technically yes you could just pay pal money to you know to craig but don’t like the the people who jumped you know, took the generous leap. When I said hey guys I made this then you know you guys are all grandfathered in at that at that price and that’s the number that you should be paying and um, that was something I did very intentionally in the very beginning was to set it. Low. So that people could go like that number is so small like because it gave enough people threw their hat over the fence that it made it work. Um, and now I’m I’ve already done it once but I will continue to raise the cost so that the 7 hundredth person who wants to like have all the goodies and like oh well, these people have been here you know everybody else has been here for 10 years they made it awesome. You don’t get to pay what they paid like you know they. First of all, they’ve paid for 7 years right and you know so you need to catch up so that’s something that I’m I’m expecting to do is is to make it because it it can’t be a cool community of 27 thousand people like that’s not going to work. It’s got to be a small enough group that maybe everybody doesn’t know each other. But you have it you you make a click you know you find 10 people or something. Um, and if it’s a cocktail party of a thousand people. You’re not going to be able to to do the magical things that we can currently do when it’s a hundred people at the moment. So that’s 1 knob.

20:51.83 Ric And and and and and again I I really believe that that people want to give bank after receiving so much on. But I also believe that as you’re saying if anyone can Join. It changes the dynamic very much and it’s not really for the initial people who who had had this is what we think it’s for but again I think you’re dancing that line very beautiful with most data here is free and you you don’t have to play.

21:14.47 podcomm Um, yeah, yeah.

21:25.23 podcomm Yeah.

21:29.93 Ric The member rule if you don’t want to I don’t believe in locking in knowledge locking in ideas but it has to be sustainable otherwise and I think again the price tag is.

21:41.85 podcomm Um, yeah I.

21:47.40 Ric Part of how much do other people care about being here.

21:47.90 podcomm Yeah, the other knob that I will probably have to turn before I play with the valuew the the dollar value is at the moment anybody can just walk up to the discourse platform click put your email password verify your email and you’re in and then you can. Access almost all the areas. There are a few places that you can read but you can’t post and that’s all by design and 1 of the first things that I’m just like I’m not quite sure what number it should be at is is it 500 or whatever. Um. I’m going to disable the self-service sign-up and make it so that you need an invitation from somebody else and the discourse system has like a really detailed gamified score you know people have levels um and roughly you have to. Engaged with the platform for about 3 months to make it like not every single day but you have to log in pretty often and post a couple things and do a lot and really demonstrate. You know you’re active before discourse gives you the invite someone else button to that which generates a unique link which you can then give to other people and of course. Under the hood I can tell who invited who so if somebody invites a bunch of ass hats I know where are these people coming from you know like I could track it back so that’ll probably be the first thing.

23:00.58 Ric Now. But yeah and I think to understand so the robots don’t come in and do a lot of bad stuff or suck the post dry and suddenly I find my content showing up.

23:13.26 podcomm Ma’am. Um.

23:19.98 Ric Somewhere else and looks like I posted it. So so.

23:20.30 podcomm Yeah, fingers crossed they they have a lot of cool stuff with achemy in the back for preventing robotics signups but you could still astroturf it. You know with human like there’s it’s an arms race. That’s another reason why I love discourse is because I’m just like um craig.

23:32.67 Ric Yeah, yeah, exactly.

23:38.80 podcomm Single human does not have the resources to fight an arms race against the you know Barbarian hordes and discourse if anybody does it’s going to be some some of the big 1 big players. So that’s another reason why I really like it. Um and because I use the the community is built using their host. They call hosted discourse.

23:39.63 Ric Yes.

23:55.78 podcomm I actually can email the team like guys what’s going on with you know with problems is so so.

23:57.47 Ric Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I also think it goes back to explaining that a lot of people don’t understand why does this look so gamified. But it’s not just so you can track and it’s not just so to level up people. But it’s actually to exactly.

24:08.53 podcomm Um, yes is that a human. Yeah, yeah, it’s flagged some stuff already somebody. Um.

24:17.70 Ric Ah, exactly So there’s ah they it’s a lot of thinking going into the platform.

24:26.78 podcomm But it’s just people who are excited somebody like logged in and within 2 minutes had like posted a reply and a couple of posts and they hadn’t set their any of their profile stuff or anything and it like raised a flag and held 1 of their posts and I was almost like well I’ve never seen something in the flag to queue I’m like what’s that I click on it and I’m like whoa. No, that’s legit.

24:40.46 Ric Yeah, but yeah.

24:44.17 podcomm And and it’s just the way it looks is like oh that person’s been a member about 3 seconds and they’re already doing these things that doesn’t look human like no no, they’re just really excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:48.15 Ric Yeah, well or even if it’s human is that the behavior we want to promote will end the spam. It’s a lot like 2 links in the short but time is very promotional looking.

25:03.60 podcomm You know what’s another thing like you talk about what does it look like what if things smell like you know is this how we do it? Um I’m going to try and fight the good fight against email signatures. Um, so because discourse will send you email messages and you can just reply to the email and it posts a reply in the thread your email signature.

25:17.43 Ric Yeah.

25:23.13 podcomm There’s this complicated thing in the software which tries to figure out where your email’s signature starts and then it rolls it up into a little ellipse icon which you can click to reveal but it tries to collapse that stuff and the the way 1 of the things it uses to detect is there’s actually an rfc from usernet days. About dash dash space and then a new line and that’s like the standard I’m air quoing because there aren’t any standards for anything but that’s like the standard beginning of a signature line. So I’m going to see how far we get with me anytime I see a sig signature I’m going to be like off the top of your sig because because otherwise. Like half of the post is you know craigontanine and my mission is like blah bla blah but like on all that stuff it just like roll up. So when somebody writes that’s awesome. It just has their avatar and their name and it says that’s awesome and then it’s super easy to scroll and you don’t see all this repetitive content. But I Will’ll see how far I get with. Fighting the good fight about signatures on email replies. No, we’ll see.

26:20.60 Ric Yeah, and I think this goes back also to the learning curve that a lot of you and I I think have taken like thirty thirty five akimbos and.

26:35.99 podcomm 2 I’ve done 2 of course the second 1 I took was a freebie because all of the times I volunteered in the other 1 I have like 8 more credits. There’s something stupid. Sorry I derailed you.

26:39.54 Ric Yeah, good.

26:44.77 Ric Yeah, same here I then I know is right? and but I mean I see I’ve seen a lot of people who never touched the platform. They only play with the posting the a email so they totally Miss sections. And and they again we need to embrace that they’re the 1 who’s new. They have a right to be new. How can we help them. We who are experienced but it can look like they’re here. They’re participating.

27:09.47 podcomm Here.

27:19.80 Ric Need to be the 1 saying well it looks like you’re not doing section 1 2 3 it looks like you’re posting to this stuff and and after a while we can see well, you’re not creating new stuff. You’re replying to things that worst email to you you you look like an active user. But you’re really not.

27:21.54 podcomm Yeah.

27:31.47 podcomm Yes.

27:37.72 Ric So How can we then help them and I think what do you say with signature and stuff like that. That’s a great way to Okay, what? what should we monitor? How should we say? Well I’m missing this from the equation. How can we help you. Log on what I would say Normally for example.

27:56.26 podcomm Um, yeah I think the breaking the changing the medium helps. Um I would love to have more I’m just not quite sure how to like do enough of them and get them in enough time zones more like. Quick like half hour camp I call campfires little little zoom calls where we get together. We don’t record the zoom call. So like if if you’re picking your nose. Nobody’s going to ever see it unless they’re on the call and and then it just gets people to show up and um in both directions like Craig gets to meet the new people. But the new people go oh these, you know. Crazy people I see posting all over. They’re just regular people who are on the platform a lot and I think that helps I know that helps humanize yeah helps everybody humanize the other person. It’s like oh they’re just a regular person 2 hands. They’re just used to the platform and and and when they when they go. Ah. Can’t figure out how to and then we’re all like oh sorry, that’s really easy I’ll show you or you know here screen share you know quickly click. So I think that’s 1 of the things I want to try and do more of is is I have more opportunities for the group to get together and I’ve been thinking about I have like office air quoting office hours.

28:55.60 Ric Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:08.93 podcomm I schedule doing small podcast recordings and I’m thinking about having like lots of little you know, not 1 hundred but maybe 3 or four a week where in those office hours I just have a half hour blocked out and I’ll just have a zoom call. You know it just parked over air and ifmate wants to jump in and say hi then I can try and cover more time zones. But I really think that’s. I think is a lot of the magic to what makes the akimbo podcasting course work is people show up on the Saturday call and even if they’re just just watching. They’re just pat then then they they go away with like ah man those people are contagiously. Awesome. You know and then they go and then they click through and like and they just a little more.

29:43.50 Ric Yeah, yeah, or or as you said ah Craig just showed me how it looks and I I don’t see it like that. So okay I should do it differently? Um, or there’s more to see behind this and this but also goes back to we who are senior need to.

29:46.26 podcomm Energy.

29:51.74 podcomm Yeah.

30:02.70 Ric Understand that with the mailer that we talked about earlier if you’re hosting a live call or not time zone Discord serves as beautiful even if we’re coming. But if as soon as someone is replying on an email. It’s um.

30:11.69 podcomm Yes.

30:19.79 podcomm Yeah, yeah, yep.

30:19.88 Ric Cut in stone on their time sound and it’s confusing someone who don’t see that does that make sense. So. It’s a lot of pitfalls that you and I will see that’s a reply that’s not live. That’s not Discord saying it’s an it’s a mess frozen message on their time. Zone. Um. But if you knew how can you know it looks very much the same.

30:39.29 podcomm Yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s 1 little teeny tiny icon that you would miss cool.

30:45.56 Ric Yeah, so and it’s so easy for us to forget who’s used to it.

30:51.83 podcomm Yeah, all right? Well be mindful of your time my shell. Um, what that what I hate picking titles. What do I call this show what episode. What is this episode.

31:04.11 Ric While I think we geeked up down the discourse or discussion forums. And yeah, we can give you we can geek up even better is technology enough for community because that’s really what we’ve been talking about. We haven’t we didn’t talk about how.

31:17.68 podcomm Um.

31:22.96 podcomm Yeah I take to to me build it and they will come is not true. It’s not sufficient you you need it needs to work. Um, but there’s a big wide range of what will work and I I keep.

31:24.10 Ric Connecting and.

31:30.17 Ric Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:40.53 podcomm Saying I need to type faster or have more hours in the day I need to write up a big blog post about this isn’t not my first rodeo but this is the first community that I’ve ever built without exception. That’s actually been successful like right out of the gate. Um, and I’m just like okay I keep waiting for like the shoe to fall like because something’s got to go wrong here because I’m going to use it as succeeding. And ah, the only thing I can point to that’s really different is there are hundreds of people who know me as a podcaster who’s got some technical online skills and who is stupidly helpful so when he said I made this they all went okay and that earning the attention. Think was the magic sauce. There’s certainly some serendipity There’s certainly luck you know timing as part of it if you tried to do this at 200 bc it would be too early but I think the biggest linchpin or the biggest keystone this time around was just having spent years. You know becoming known as a tech. Geeky guy who podcasts and that that was the magic sauce this time I believe.

32:41.55 Ric Yeah, and I think um since I’ve known you for a long time I think it’s really worth highlighting that you give this gave this a try exactly the same platform 2 or 3 years ago

32:53.73 podcomm Um, yes, yes.

32:55.60 Ric So so it wasn’t the platform that was the magic because because it was the same it was you earning to lead this community for a while.

33:02.82 podcomm Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the and the timing was wrong, but you know like guitar. We don’t talk about that. But yeah, the timing was wrong and I didn’t see the timing was wrong I should have so I should be able to read that now I think I could read that if what had been the case.

33:09.28 Ric Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it’s a it’s a lot of other things but that.

33:18.69 Ric And I was there with you when you started the the first thing so so I don’t think the timing was bad there either and what I want your listeners to get away from with this call is not discourse was enough because it wasn’t the tool.

33:22.78 podcomm Yeah.

33:34.66 podcomm Yeah.

33:37.79 Ric It’s never the tall. It’s the stuff around the toll how you used toll because this court haven’t changed so much in 3 years it really haven’t it’s the other work you did craig that’s changed.

33:43.76 podcomm Right.

33:50.64 podcomm Um, thank you, there are other there are other aspects like um, the podcasters if you’re listening this, you’re not a podcaster I don’t know what you’re doing but a lot of podcasters. It’s a matter with you. Go use your time doing something useful. Um, there’s a lot of practices like we call it sixty seconds and and there are dailies which has meanings.

33:58.84 Ric Exactly? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

34:09.54 podcomm Beyond podcasting and there are these other things like that and some other stuff that we have not built in the community but there are people talking about and I keep having these conversations with people and I’m like okay the old craig you know 10 more years ago would have been like we could build this. We could build that I’d be like. I’d be like grabbing tools and going does this excite. You does this excite you and now I’m instead I’m going like what would excite you like what is the thing that you can’t do now and I’m like fishing for the the problem or the the magic key that they’re looking for to open some door. Um.

34:31.92 Ric Yeah, yeah.

34:43.83 podcomm And then I know that when they go Oh oh I need a better bread slicer I’ll be like I’ll be right back. You know what here you go you know like I can I know we can build it. It’s just learning to listen to find out what people really want and also not dividing my efforts into too many buckets. But anyway I’m still fishing for a title for this is this.

34:59.69 Ric Yeah, so sorry I’m I’m bit because you just poked. Well what I did record my episode earlier today when you said the lock and the key there and and I talk about communities specifically there to leveling up together.

35:03.40 podcomm Cast as this.

35:16.94 podcomm Um.

35:18.69 Ric And I think the mistake going back on the platform is here’s a tool that will solve your pain here’s the tool a solution for your problem here’s a key for your lock and I think the magic with the community is there’s ah, you’re leading into uncertainty. Learning what better looks like for a future thing. The neither of you know what? it’s gonna morph into so you’re kind of it’s not the easy fix. So here I fixed it now you can work now you can record your sixty seconds now you can do this.

35:55.42 podcomm Um.

35:55.58 Ric And you know it’s kind of working for that. It’s Together. You’re creating. Okay, what this next level of needs that we that we need to be solving. How do we grow together and learning together practicing together and that’s beautiful with communities. But again, it’s not about the tool but did tool helps because it removes friction. It removes problems obstacles.

36:15.44 podcomm Um, yeah.

36:22.32 podcomm Yeah, yeah, it eliminates degrees of freedom. So you’re like oh it guess it’s supposed to go this way or that way you know clearly that other thing isn’t the right way. Yeah.

36:30.47 Ric So so title um, not tech community belonging or purposeful belonging or something like that.

36:41.90 podcomm We could do ah my my brain immediately went I gotta squish that in a little graphic but all right? We oh no, we’ll go a belonging about belonging belonging. It will be I tell you I can’t do that when laughing.

36:50.12 Ric Oh yeah, sounds good, but.

36:58.97 Ric Ah.

37:01.92 podcomm We’ll call it belonging I took zero notes I’ll have to listen again. Cool um, yeah, thanks so much for ah, being a sounding board. Um I was just thinking I also like when when I start talking another context you know, like on a call and then. And my internal monologue I’m going stop talking stop talking and eventually I stop and then rick comes off mute and goes I want to just unpack some you know like because I go way too fast I just love that you do that. It’s just like I feel like a dog getting collared you know. So thank you very much for often being the yen of my crazy ass yem or is it the know and that’s the yin my crazy ass ya and thanks for all your support over the years

37:40.74 Ric While unpacking means you have more to give doesn’t mean that trying leave because you’re going to lost. But I do believe again that it’s easy. We forget how it is to be new.

37:48.17 podcomm Ah, ah.

37:57.94 Ric We know a lot of Jargon we know a lot of what it’s for we you and I are again talking about that community building for the future you and I are very much in the future when we’re talking what is it for not right now. But after this recording what is it for.

38:07.82 podcomm So yeah, yeah. Yeah.

38:16.97 Ric So and and it’s easy that we’re running away from people because we’re running too fast and then we’re not helping them or we’re running in a way. They’re not interested in again I’m quite ignorant in most other things so they’re not following because.

38:20.16 podcomm Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:34.85 podcomm Um, yeah, all right? Well I’ll be mindful of your time. That’s like a double serving-sized episode I Think that’s cool.

38:35.62 Ric Nobody cares? yeah.

38:41.56 Ric Thank you.

38:44.40 podcomm Um, so we’ll call it belonging and I’ll just say hey as always thanks for all your support and it was a super colossal pleasure to get a chance to talk to you rick.

38:54.43 Ric Likewise Thank you all just love talking to you bye way.