Transcript for "Authenticity - with Özlem Özkan"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantonine Asm thank you for taking the time this is one of the few spots where y’all probably wish I had the video on because she’s sitting on her balcony in turkey.

00:01.62
Ozlem
Hello I’m Islamis come.

00:15.30
podcomm
And she’s sitting in front of a sliding glass door. So she’s torturing me the the sliding glass door reflection has like trees blowing in the breeze and the sun is setting and and I’m like all right I was supposed to be talking I’m like staring off at the sunset So we do this little? Um, welcome. Thank you for taking the time. But.

00:15.60
Ozlem
Yeah.

00:33.59
podcomm
We do a little bit of chat beforehand and I’m wondering if the listeners at this point are like hey I get to the part and when I said the p word when I said podcasting you immediately said learning and you just like pounced on that and and the 2 of us are doing like the vigorous notalong thing about. The number of things that we fall into and the people that we meet and the places that we go and like there’s just like kid in a candy store like if this isn’t nice I don’t know what is which is a Kurt Vonnegut reference so um and and this is a threat I like to pull on so when somebody says something really clear like. Learning oh. My god it’s all about learning when somebody does that I’m always interested to know. Did you realize that it was going to be like that when you started or or did you like start podcasting start working on your project and then discover that oh my god this is a learning schmorcus board.

01:10.67
Ozlem
Um, yeah.

01:25.19
Ozlem
Actually I didn’t know what to expect I just started with a you know being blind. Let’s say that but you know learning for me. It also equals actually exploring like really learning from the guests I’m having on the podcast.

01:32.88
podcomm
Um.

01:41.92
podcomm
Just a.

01:44.80
Ozlem
Learning from when I’m a guest on a podcast is just being so like open as a child like a 4 or 5 year old that you think like oh tell me I thought it is like this but you look at it from a very different angle very different viewpoint I really realize the value of it and then the more i. Learned and the more I want to learn and the more it makes me feel like I don’t know anything nothing.

02:12.68
podcomm
Beginner’s mindset I read an article recently that that put it beautifully and I’m sure this isn’t an original idea but it it said basically 3 ideas which is simplicity and then complexity and then informed simplicity. So that like at the beginning level. You’re like oh this is easy I just press record you know well maybe at the 0 level everybody panics and doesn’t want to start. But once you start it looks easy and then you start, you’re like whoa this is complicated and there’s so many things to dig into and then at some point you kind of I always say get it up on plane like a water skier right? You get it up and you’re like.

02:32.92
Ozlem
Um.

02:49.68
podcomm
I Kind of have the hang of this and I’m wondering how you combat or how do you avoid the like the complexity monster like it. It isn’t simple. Everything is really complicated and how do you? How do you? avoid that trap.

02:56.34
Ozlem
Um, yeah, actually what I do is obsessively I prepare really deeply like so when I am going to have a. Guest I’m already super grateful like that person is going to be on the show I am preparing days like actually the books I’m reading is then from that person about the person the podcast and once I have prepared very well know the background also have defined the.

03:16.97
podcomm
Um.

03:33.56
Ozlem
Theme that I want to would like to talk about together actually with the guest we define it then once I hit the record button. It’s like fun because I have prepared I trust that it will work out and the guest is there for only forty forty five minutes

03:41.87
podcomm
M.

03:51.51
Ozlem
Even maybe shorter even and I just like the complexity is already done before because I have prepared and you know and for everyone I think it’s very very different. But once I prepare everything you know there’s this book the oustronotes handbook or something It’s called so this guy prepares. Everything in advance even though it won’t happen and I just like that idea in order to also make the guest feel kind of special valued because once he or she is there feels like oh you have read Also deaths.

04:13.27
podcomm
Um.

04:27.64
podcomm
Room.

04:29.60
Ozlem
Page in my book or you also listen to this and then I’m just having fun and and you know, Ah, for example, English is not my native language and I do it in English and then you I use a lot of wrong words and I’m like oh sorry or whatever when I am recording or when I’m having a guest I’m just like a child I’m also saying sometimes. Sorry I don’t know that I haven’t prepared that I don’t know what you’re saying what do you mean? it’s It’s like it’s like a kindergarten child just being there being I The thing is what I Also really like is I can just be myself during the podcast fully.

05:05.26
podcomm
Um I was just thinking Honesty is the word that’s springing to mind here and then you’re like I can just be myself. Yeah, that’s honesty. Um, like I love I mean your energy. Um, your energy is contagious and it comes through and it’s not like you’re like that all the time that I’ve heard you um and I think that.

05:08.65
Ozlem
I hope.

05:18.26
Ozlem
Are you.

05:23.76
podcomm
My experience has also I dont okay, you take preparational level further than I take preparation. Okay, except for this show this show. There’s 0 prep I was eating my lunch 3 minutes before we started this call. It’s like there’s no prep at all. But setting aside this very special thing that I’m trying to make with zero effort. Um.

05:41.36
Ozlem
But but that’s already a prep. Maybe that’s already maybe a prep great but that might be a prep because you prep is not preparing. Yeah.

05:43.25
podcomm
I’m I’m with you on? Yeah yeah, That’s true here’s here’s can you see the checklist here’s here’s the checklist I print this little checklist out and it’s got oslim’s name on the top and then it has a list of checkboxes in the very last one that the bottom says you know, update the spreadsheet So I Don’t forget who I’ve interviewed. Um, and then the previous one before you I just threw this on the floor and it’s only half marked off like I do other steps yet. So Yeah I you do make a good point about maybe I prepared more than I think I prepared. Um but I lost I interrupted you you were talking about honesty and I love the Kindergarten metaphor like everything here has soft corners. But could possibly go wrong. Um, do you find?? Um I Always I say this all the time I So I look up and I look like I’m stuck but I have too many things that I want to ask and I’m trying to figure out which one to ask? What’s um. So we all right? We started talking about learning and then we’re taught now we’re talking about how we prepare? Um, What do you find? Let’s go in a different direction. What do you find that guests do wrong like when guests show up and they’re like. And and in your head because this happens to be some I go Oh this one’s going to be a little harder are there are the things you see that people do and what I’m fishing for is things that we can share with podcasters to say look when you go and be on someone’s show. Don’t freak Out. Don’t don’t do this thing that you like yeah like see what I’m saying Like. What can we do to be better guests.

07:14.50
Ozlem
Yeah, that’s a very very good question. Actually very good question I think you know, but what gets do wrong is at the same time coming from a very supportive site.

07:18.22
podcomm
Um, yes, sorry.

07:31.71
Ozlem
Because what I you know it. It also depends on the guests. Some guests have been a thousand times on a show so they know actually they are just record they are just ready to go and some guests have been the first time on a podcast or maybe second third fourth. Whatever. But they all want to help.

07:35.50
podcomm
Yeah.

07:46.69
podcomm
Um.

07:48.59
Ozlem
That’s is really oh my guess we have already done 40 episode. They want to help they really want to level up their podcast and they want to give to the audience but they haven’t usually they have an idea of what how can I give the best and when they do that. Sometimes they overdo it over do like you know shall I say this or shall I say that and they kind of get lost ah of I don’t want to say authenticity. But while they think I want to help it’s it is like this look if you really like someone you are.

08:09.18
podcomm
Um.

08:26.69
Ozlem
You know you can just be yourself like right? and if this person likes you he likes you or not and if you overdo it like you know he needs to like me and you know I should do suez I Should do say this then the person feels. It’s not authentic. He also feels like what’s happening here. You’re kind of.

08:34.45
podcomm
Um, right.

08:44.45
podcomm
Um, right.

08:45.38
Ozlem
Overdoing it and that is I think it’s not really ah wrong, but it’s coming also from a side of like you really want to help the person and then it’s sometimes overdoing it sometimes trying to find the right words and I’m like I don’t care.

08:57.41
podcomm
Um.

09:03.36
Ozlem
Just make the mistake say something wrong because I what I actually especially want to show with the show with the bridging podcast is that people are human human beings. We are made to make mistakes and actually see.

09:18.91
podcomm
Um, yeah, we’re fuzzy right? I I do it. It’s fine.

09:22.75
Ozlem
Exactly and see do you hear a zo by the way this is so funny I actually live in the Netherlands I’m in turkey now and Aza is is nice shall we cook.

09:32.91
podcomm
Yeah, remember everybody I’m staring at the sunset and she’s sitting on her patio and I’m like nice. Yes, yes, please please keep going.

09:38.88
Ozlem
Do you want me to continue because it will just continue. So I think ah, that’s you know, um, making the guest at ease and also not telling that much just talking as friends.

09:52.28
podcomm
Um.

09:58.19
Ozlem
About that topic is the best but they sometimes overdo it and as I overdid it and maybe sometimes I still overdo things you know in my podcast.

10:08.30
podcomm
Um, yeah I I would agree with you 100% about I haven’t I’m I’m amazeed to say this because I don’t want to jinx it but I haven’t had a guest show up yet who wasn’t in the mindset of wanting to help I agree with you completely and I think that. Maybe Podcasters. It’s even worse is the wrong word. But maybe it’s even worse because we know how hard the other podcaster is working even if they’re new and they haven’t woo you haven’t found all the problems yet. But even if they’re New. We know. Okay that that host is really working Hard. So then we were like want to double down.

10:46.53
Ozlem
Ah.

10:46.98
podcomm
Want to like well but I can really help So I’m going to you know do the best I can and and you’re right that authenticity. The authenticity is the magic. So when you’re able to capture a recording where it’s clear that the people on the recording are authentic. That’s when the magic happens. It’s not.

10:53.61
Ozlem
Um, yeah.

11:06.70
podcomm
It’s not right I often say I will do anything including considering buying furniture in a rented apartment because I meet at a table I will do anything that I can before I press record to make the best thing and and so then when I’m a guest I’m like well what can I possibly do from this side and. I I have found that um I can’t say never but it’s very rare that I encounter someone who literally just walks up and and doesn’t just like once they relax like as you said once they relax and once they’re um, honest or authentic then it’s just like oh look.

11:36.91
Ozlem
Yeah.

11:44.58
podcomm
It’s 2 people talking you know this? This isn’t new. This is the thing we’ve all been doing for hundreds of thousands of years

11:50.59
Ozlem
What I also realize actually ah Greg is if you have a 40 minute show it’s good you know usually the first ten minutes it’s a little bit like forced. You know the chat and all and then the guest starts getting into the whole field and then it starts and.

12:05.78
podcomm
M.

12:09.96
Ozlem
But I realize it’s after the fifteenth episode and what I usually do is before I start with the gas I put some music on like let’s just dance or do something and just get in the mode and feel and then okay hit record. Let’s start welcome Bra Constantine I hope I say you name.

12:16.96
podcomm
M.

12:25.30
podcomm
Um, yes, there’s some debate about what my last name even should be but anyway, um if that like Meta right? you said.

12:28.58
Ozlem
Right. But.

12:39.47
podcomm
10 minutes and I looked at there’s a timer running on the corner of my screen and we were like at 11 minutes and 59 seconds and we’re clearly. Um, although you was pretty much 0 to 60 we didn’t spend a lot of time getting up to speed. Um, but there is there is a method to some of my madness and the reason this show is about 20 minutes is because 10 minutes in it’s like things are really getting good and then I I kind of wondered could I make a podcast where I stop when it’s still really good and I’m like well yeah, you can but you have to stop really abruptly at 20 minutes or so and I really think it’s um, it’s like. Renews my faith in people every time I have a great conversation with someone you’re like I don’t know where this is going but like that was awesome and if that was awesome. Why couldn’t those 2 random people over there have an awesome conversation or those you know so I think that um conversation is the key.

13:16.42
Ozlem
Um, yes, yes, yes.

13:25.90
Ozlem
Um, yeah, it actually that actually also you know having the podcast. It also made me more practice in the real world to be ah just myself I mean. It’s it just made me practice because this authenticity. Actually we just said in the show I think it’s in general you know wherever you are if you are at the work floor or you have a relationship or you’re with friends or at the gym wherever you know that is so. It is like you know when you see someone that is himself herself. You also like oh my god this is okay, you know I can just give you example I did a scuba diving course here and I went eighteen meters down I was really empanic and then we had to go slowly up.

14:06.68
podcomm
Mean.

14:17.30
Ozlem
And then I come up I take off the mask and I have a runny nose but I don’t even realize and then I’m just like I’m panic a background panic and then the and the instructor says like hey we have a runny nose just can can you just blow it and I I’m so sorry he said like listen. Every human being has that and and you know I you because you know the feel of getting disapproval off from someone or seeking for approval and in the show I feel like we are in a so space safe space that people.

14:34.89
podcomm
Yes, that.

14:49.21
podcomm
Space.

14:53.63
Ozlem
Can be themselves and I hope actually that I create that for my guess. Yeah I mean I hope they feel that but I feel it with my guest myself.

15:03.18
podcomm
Yeah I I think it’s um, yeah, also yes scuba diving running nose Yup um, ah but I think you’re right about. It’s really hard to fake. Um, you know, being on the same wavelength with someone. And it it never ceases to amaze me how well it works even over crappy video calls like um, we’re using Zencastr so the audio will will come out as good as possible. Whatever our gear is that’s what we get when we’re done but we’re we’re.

15:24.89
Ozlem
Yeah.

15:36.35
podcomm
Communicating through a video call. So some of them on there’s like a delay lag or the the video will down sample and get real fuzzy and all of a sudden you’re like talking to a robot or whatever and I think it’s just neat how each each of us can listen through that after about 10 minutes we can listen right through all that stuff and there’s a very small amount of like conceptual bandwidth that’s really needed to keep the conversation going people can can still hear. Um and and I think that’s partly audio I think we we as humans are just so used to listening.

16:04.26
Ozlem
Um, yeah.

16:10.73
podcomm
Um, that we really pick up on little cues. The sunset is still distracting I’m sorry’s I’m like I’m gazing at the one. No don’t don’t turn it around. We started as like here look at them my God Oh you do that I want to have a podcast regarding it I’m staring at the sunset. Um.

16:12.46
Ozlem
Yes, and do you want to do? do you want to see it Again. It’s now it’s now it did theft. Um, Ah yeah.

16:28.78
podcomm
Which just said I mentioned before I was at the beach. Oh. It was so nice and I got there early enough that I like I I went to the beach for a couple hours it like a 4 hour drive I went out on the beach for a couple hours and just like sat there like oh this is nice and okay, sun’s getting low I had to go back and like cook my dinner. Um and then it got dark and then I get up the middle of the night like. Midnight and went back to the beach again, it was like forty yards is super close. So um, and there I still go go go? yeah.

16:49.96
Ozlem
I actually want to say something about audio thing is it. Okay Greg you know what you said like that we can see through the audio actually that we can really listen to the person I think in general in life. You know, either, you do make a show podcast or whatever you do really. When you are with a person at work friends family member. Whatever really if you can see through even what the person says you will see actually the authentic person because whenever a person says something to you which might not.

17:20.63
podcomm
Um.

17:29.44
Ozlem
Ah, which you might not like that person might say it out of fear out of maybe Insecurity or something but when we we really see through that then we can start showing compassion showing Love unconditional I’m not talking about a romantic love or something. But. I Think it’s a very important thing in the life Now you know when there’s a huge technology social media this and that but when we are present in physical or video life like what we are when we say things to each other… It’s only a sentence.

17:57.28
podcomm
Um.

18:03.89
podcomm
Are.

18:05.66
Ozlem
But that person is much more than that sentence there is this authentic being which is what I believe also part of the whole universe which is only one you know we are all 1 the universe would not exist without you but it wouldn’t ah exist. Also without me without your eye without your hair just wants to say side switch to something else.

18:29.67
podcomm
Um, no, it’s awesome. No, it’s awesome. Sometimes I so I say you know I’m going to just press stop like when when someone says something like when you but as you just did when someone says something really awesome I often think I should just hit the stop button like there’s no need for me to say anything else. I think that talking about I sometimes I wonder how many podcasters realize that what you’re developing with the podcasters themselves what you’re developing is compassion and you’re you’re using, empathy and to be a really good podcaster assuming you have other guests on the show. Um, to be a really good podcaster. You have to develop that skill of empathy and you have to figure out how to deploy compassion I think it was pretty sure it was the Dalai Lama said if you if you want to be if you want to make other people happy practice compassion and if you want to be happy.

19:22.21
Ozlem
Um, yeah, yeah, exactly Yeah yeah, and also like you know, really listening I think listening is so important because where if you would say something I would like oh I get it.

19:26.37
podcomm
Practice compassion and I thought that was a really like compassion is key.

19:40.40
podcomm
Um.

19:41.68
Ozlem
But I might get it with my reference point with the view I see the world but where do you really come from with that story I mean if you really listen ask questions without making any conclusions just observing your thoughts… What do you say? oh. I’ve never looked at it this way it you It’s so you are really expanding I’m expanding my consciousness I believe by making the show.

20:12.40
podcomm
Aslim I Think that’s a great place to stop. Thank you so much for sharing stop. Thank you for sharing your perspective and for taking the time out of your day to hop on a call and record with me.

20:14.10
Ozlem
Stop.

20:22.26
Ozlem
Yeah, thank you so much Greg I really enjoyed being on your show and I hope the listener will also enjoy this conversation.