Transcript for "Audience - with Tyler Williams"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome Tyler pleasure I say this to everyone I love the fact that people are willing to take time out of their busy schedules to sit down and talk with me. Um, in actuality, they’re all talking to the audience. But I think that’s cool. Ah.

00:02.36
Tyler
Hello and I’m Tyler Williams

00:19.28
podcomm
Tyler Williams is I’m going to say a musician extraordinaire partly based on what I’ve heard you talking about doing and what I can see in the video frame behind you and also a podcaster call your podcast is titled hear me pod and on 1 hand I kind of want to like go with like that’s a neat that’s a neat title. But. Have these little pre-discus and we were talking about audience and as soon as you said the a-word. My first thought was oh I wonder what? the differences are between the the concept of audience. So when we’re recording podcasts. Even if we have a guest the the audience is nowhere to be found. Um, and that might be similar. It was like I wondering is that similar to when you record in a studio where maybe it’s even worse. It’s just you and and an audio track of like the base or something know the base something so you can keep time or whatever and and combined with you know, like part of my question. What about in a live. Situation where you have an actual audience so anything jump out at you about those 3 really completely different ways of performing on a mic you know in a podcast in a studio and then maybe live anything jump out at you about those 3 different ways of doing performance.

01:25.74
Tyler
Well, it’s interesting Craig the the cool thing about live is you are just in the moment and you’re reacting to things. Maybe some douche bags come to spill a beer on me while I’m trying to tune my base or something ah and you have to just like okay I’m not going to play those notes but I’ll come back on. Bridge after I wipe it off and wipe off the strings and make sure I don’t slip but I love the recording setting whether it’s music or podcasting and being in a studio I mean this this is kind of a makeshift. It’s an office I’m using now I’ve got a couple pillows behind the computer to help with. And a little bit and I do like the intimacy of of recording a podcast or talking to someone over a nice microphone and it reminds I’ve been thinking about audience a lot lately and let me just um, oops.

02:12.67
podcomm
Right.

02:23.28
Tyler
Yeah, and and how you know what? How how the hell did I get into this you know into podcasting I was a deejay in college and it was a lot of fun I had a program where it was like any kind of music I wanted and it was like probably at 2 in the morning or something but I would have some jazz I’d have some classical. And have you know funk grunge was really big in the in the 90 s in Seattle that kind of dates myself I guess but I freaking I loved that stuff. I loved just coming up with a show and then as the song’s fading out you talk over it and that’s actually. That’s actually how I do my intros my out intros and Outros for my show is I actually play it and just kind of talk over it kind of like like pretending it’s live even though it’s recording. So anyway, those are couple thoughts on things I like to do.

03:14.57
podcomm
So do you find that it’s difficult to draw and like if the audience is not present how where do we find the energy to it. Um, what is the word a moat. So when if you’re trying to like track an outro it. They can’t be like. Yeah, was great. I was Bob played music. Okay out of here you know like it kind of needs to be like Manderre the me of that track I love it anyway. That was you know Bob so-andso or like or whatever. Um, where do you have you ever consciously thought about where do you get the energy to to like.

03:34.94
Tyler
Ah.

03:49.83
podcomm
Rise to the occasion every time you do that One of those tracks.

03:52.71
Tyler
Yeah, it’s interesting I I guess I kind of hone in on what’s being said as far as the podcasting tracks. Yeah, like if a guest is like my last one today I just published this morning actually Angela Chan and she’s just kind of laughing at the end and. The way I I stopped the recording a little too early I wish it I would have kept some more laughter so I had to do kind of a fade and then just kind of yeah that was great and and it was you know a couple the takes but it it was a it was a fun interview and. Yeah I’m sure it’s going to be more difficult with certain people like you like you said yeah and that was Bob so I’m time to go home now.

04:33.30
podcomm
Maybe those should go on the floor I I read an article about somebody who some some big well-known podcast I forget which one and they said that they were they were throwing one out of 5 on the floor like.

04:40.28
Tyler
Yeah.

04:47.31
podcomm
One hundred every five like they do the whole interview all way through press stop that was great but not good enough and then it goes on the cutting room floor and they’re not releasing those just because they don’t rise to the level of of um of what they wanted not so much what they wanted the show to be but the point they were making was that like and even I’ve said this we don’t need any more episodes. We do not need to hear Craig talk to anybody ever again. We got millions of these things. So don’t make one unless you have a reason for making it so what their point was like well that one was good but we you didn’t need to see the light a day. So like let’s only put out the really really good ones. Um, and I think there’s. That as podcasters we’re doing the right thing by thinking about our audience like what would the what would the outro really be like what’s the appropriate one for this episode. How do I write because we spend tons of time. How do we write a title for an episode show. What’s the description for our whole. You know, show itself and and all these things we put all this time and do and you’re operating in an echo chamber you get almost no feedback and you and I had mentioned the beginning you were talking about the experience of the end consumer of the podcast show and what what it’s like because we’ve all done this what it’s like to like.

05:45.85
Tyler
Great.

06:01.77
podcomm
What would be the story that would make them press play on my episode number 11 like what is that experience for those people. So I’m wondering like what your thoughts are on things that you do after having thought about what those we’ll call those vanilla. Never. Never seen your show. They don’t know anything about you. It’s like you know virgin territory people anything you’ve done or thought about differently having tried to put yourself in that vanilla person’s shoes.

06:30.89
Tyler
Yeah I have been thinking about this a lot lately Craig. It’s the what is a person going to search for what’s the I hate to use that word keyword you know or something like that. But a lot of lot of the podcasts I really enjoy kind of weekly or. They have some sort of value to them. There might be like ah you know I’m really into like this one called the mac power users and they talk about tips for your Apple devices and things like that and there’s always 2 or 3 things I jot down and learned from that episode and that’s kind of I was really focused on that concept when I started.

07:01.24
podcomm
Um.

07:09.18
Tyler
Back in pod seven where you and I met and I thought that’s what I should be doing every every episode should have these 3 tips so that no matter who listens to it. They’re gonna get something out of it and you know I I was focused on my mom listening to it and she’s like she hates her computer like they.

07:25.29
podcomm
Um, my mom unsubscribed from much show. Yeah, she gave up in the third she gave up in the 30 s oh anyway, sorry but yeah, it’s harsh.

07:29.40
Tyler
Yeah, ah she did. That’s that’s hilarious. Oh my gosh. That’s that’s that’s kind of funny but well sorry I hope you guys still have dinners together once in a while or something. But.

07:44.32
podcomm
We do. We don’t talk about it I do Rail Yourrina thoughts. Sorry.

07:47.90
Tyler
Oh my gosh. That’s okay, ah but I was really focused on that whole you know I’ve got to have these things and I’ll put it in my weekly blog and it’s in an email you can click on these these 3 hard facts that will help you through the day with your your updating your.

07:57.33
podcomm
Um.

08:07.49
Tyler
Apps and things like that. Whatever it is and then then I just started having fun with some interviews and it just started turning into like conversations with musician friends and we we would dabble on the tech stuff and that’s always going to be there. But now I’m like rethinking it a few months later as I think I do want to have. Some sort of consistency with a tip or 2 with each episode. Maybe it’s at the end of the episode because I think that really helps a stranger to the podcast where they say Oh Wow there’s something I kind of learned at the end that I didn’t know anything about and and I know that you can’t just do that. Very so sickly every every episode or whatever. Yeah, like exactly. But it’s been… It’s been interesting to just kind of I’m I’m thinking of like even my title hear me Pod. It’s it’s.

08:45.88
podcomm
Yeah to cook that I’m and I cook this down every time it works perfectly. Not.

09:01.86
Tyler
H E a R instead of H E R E and because it’s like I think you could hear it both ways and but once you see the the logo with my upright Bas. It’s like a silhouette and they’re all this is a music podcast. That’s all he’s going to talk about is music and. So I don’t know my my identity is getting stirred up and thrown around again and it’s kind of it’s kind of fun. Actually it’s exciting to to rethink it as more of a a value added type podcast if that makes sense.

09:34.10
podcomm
I’ve often wondered about we’re we’re all and um, this might be a false dichotomy but we all seem to be forced into deciding okay should my artwork be like attractive in the sense that. Somebody who knows no no clue what the show is they’re going to like oo what’s that you know like are they going to click on it for the artistic visual part of it or is my artwork supposed to be branding and of course the designers of the world are about to hit me over the head go it can do both like great. You want to work for five bucks like it doesn’t happen. So we’re like forced to choose the artwork. We’re forced to choose with the title of our show like more’s mindset is really vague but it fits what I’m doing as opposed to being the really clear thing that people want to click on and and every one of our episode titles. You know weave the royal we every one of all of our episode titles. It’s like yeah, should it be.

10:08.32
Tyler
Right stop.

10:24.31
podcomm
Explanatory for people who know what the deal is or should it just be like Buzzword worthy that it shows up in searches and our descriptions and our episode notes. Everything is like that and in a way I get sick and tired of bouncing back and forth between well what would be the right title for the people that I know are listening to my show. What would be the right title for the people that might stumble upon it. Um, so I don’t know if you have any thoughts or if you have any insights into you know, like if you’re forced to say craft a title for episode 14 like what do you draw upon to decide. What makes the cut for being in the title.

10:56.21
Tyler
Um, interesting because my current set of titles are just names of the person I’m interviewing which is which works and it’s and there’s you know, maybe a little description in the show notes of what they do and where they’re from and but having readath.

11:03.70
podcomm
I Do that.

11:16.29
Tyler
Rethinking some of this concept of of what it’s about and who’s it for I’ve been thinking about I could do a few hosts on my episodes I could switch it up. There’s and there’s a podcast I really enjoy called the working musician podcast I think it is the work anyway. Pretty cool logo. It looks like 1 of those road work signs and just as the working musician. Yeah exactly and he recently um, he recently did that where he usually has a guest but then there’s been a couple where he just he’s he was talking about like music licensing.

11:33.85
podcomm
Instead of a shovel. It’s a guy with a base or something like.

11:51.32
Tyler
And royalties and how confusing it is with with streaming and and and stuff like that and it was a short episode maybe twelve thirteen minutes and it was great and I was just like I was like I just and after I stopped listening to it. He’s he’s got a couple hundred episodes now I was like oh he didn’t have a guest. It was like it. It’s like we till the end of the episode ago. He doesn’t even have a right and I think like you know I know a lot of people they have like two hot podcasts. They might have 1 featuring guests and then they might have one that’s a host on my style and then I was just thinking well I guess I can do both on the same podcast I don’t have to.

12:12.10
podcomm
It’s a really long intro.

12:28.00
podcomm
Right.

12:28.51
Tyler
Create a new podcast a new website and all that and I think just having that freedom of thought to do that is is pretty cool and I didn’t have that a few months ago yeah I thought oh I have to have because there’s so many people I mean you included that that really just you have your shit together. So well, it’s like.

12:46.30
podcomm
Let me pivot my camera so you can see how not together I’m just but I know what you mean it looks like I should know what I’m doing. Yes.

12:48.80
Tyler
And I’m going. But no, you’ve been, you’ve been great and I mean it’s just it’s so inspiring and then intimidating too and it’s I know you’re not trying to intimidate me but it’s like I click on some of your stuff and I’m like. Okay, I’m gonna go for a walk. This is I can’t I can’t I can’t catch up to this this guy but it’s it’s it’s all.

13:09.46
podcomm
I’m sorry there’s always somebody in front of you is always somebody like if I’m doing episode 12 There’s 14 out there. There’s always people ahead.

13:18.65
Tyler
Yes, and you I mean you’re and you’re very humble and I appreciate that and I think you said something on another chat we were on where you just said I’ve been doing this for a while guys and I and it was just like oh yeah, okay thanks I Needed to hear that I.

13:31.10
podcomm
Yeah, my first day on the rodeo. Not the first microphone I’ve spit on for crying out loud. Yeah.

13:37.13
Tyler
Get that lysol spray this this episode is brought to you by lysol I need to.

13:42.40
podcomm
No, it’s not I hate commercials I don’t want to put commercials in my stuff. That’s a whole and other thing about oh anyway, um yeah.

13:49.89
Tyler
We can talk about that too. That’s that’s an interesting that’s it I I would love to touch on that like anchor this the Spotify freebie thing seems a little like they’re pushing advertising right is that that kind of their game.

13:56.78
podcomm
Check, go wherever you want to go out of. Yeah yeah, yeah I guess um yeah so I’m I’m not a musician by trade or.

14:09.59
Tyler
And.

14:15.18
podcomm
Even by you know, attempted smacking on keys or anything and but I have read the licensing agreements. You know so like my I have several podcasts and the biggest one is movers mindset and it’s not available on Spotify because I read the license and one of the items that everybody ignores is the non-revocable. In perpetuity license to create derivative works wait what? um like excuse me. That’s basically you get to have my stuff that’s literally what that says and I’m like um yeah I don’t care if that maybe every record label in the world has that same c causeuse in there I don’t know but I’m like no i’m.

14:40.34
Tyler
Wow.

14:50.56
podcomm
I’m spending nontrivial amounts of money making that particular show traveling all over the place working really hard and well I didn’t set out to try and make a buck. So if people can’t hear it on Spotify does that really matter I mean the people who really want to hear it. So. Mentioned before about how do people find your show I personally believe the show that I’m creating that this one that you and I are literally doing is actually very different. But for movers mindset people find a specific episode. They’re looking for because it’s like 100 different human beings. They’re looking for a particular person.

15:08.53
Tyler
3

15:24.87
podcomm
And they find that one person and they go who’s this Craig guy shut up and get to the part where the other person talks and that’s what they want to hear and that’s great. That’s what it’s supposed to do so they find it they they don’t go like hey it’s not as badified. They’re just like I got it press play like to me that’s what’s awesome about podcasting is the medium is still so open in terms of.

15:30.81
Tyler
Right? right.

15:44.75
podcomm
Like internet interoperability. So I tend to for for that big show I tend to ignore the audience and just focus on well what What’s the best thing I can create with Tyler today like what? what can we talk about and I know there are people who be interested in listening to us talk about audience. So I’m not going to worry about. Can I get an ad in it or can I get it in this I did I put this show on spot I think I put this show on Spotify like I can’t remember well I was like yeah but the point this is it’s small and it’s lightweight and the conversations are much more off the cuff and we’re not editing them. So yeah, Craig off on a tangent.

16:09.73
Tyler
That’s funny.

16:16.20
Tyler
Um, yeah, that’s no, that’s cool I mean yeah, you would you wouldn’t want to if you spent like eight months in Europe researching and doing like a ah 12 episode presentation I’m going to put it on Spotify I spent.

16:29.78
podcomm
I’m not that bad I did spend eight days in London but no yeah.

16:34.48
Tyler
Yeah I understand that though and I’m I mean I’m all about that like and making sure you understand the rights you have with your material.

16:40.30
podcomm
Yeah, well and and what did you go into this for you know, like if you’re just on a podcast for fun then yeah, whatever you’d like Spotify is not going to steal your work. But yeah.

16:49.28
Tyler
Right? But yeah, getting back to the audience though. Yeah, it’s very interesting when you do like a Google search for a topic and then there is a podcast that comes up with that subject you you want to.

17:04.16
podcomm
Yeah, have you had any surprises with audience I’m sure if I asked that in the context of live shows. Yes, but have you had any so have any surprises related to audience around your podcast. How how long have you been podcasting so it’s that’s like over a year now if you were in.

17:05.28
Tyler
Learn about or something and then you just click on that And oh.

17:12.20
Tyler
Her.

17:22.98
Tyler
Um, it’s actually it’s been about five months yeah it’s pod 7 was in in February I think we started or I yeah and then I published couple episodes and took a couple months off and then yeah.

17:23.36
podcomm
Part 7 right.

17:29.79
podcomm
I Can’t remember.

17:39.50
podcomm
So somewhere its mean six six months to a year and have have you been surprised like like things out of the back catalog. You know like I’m working on episode 17 and somebody from who just heard episode 2 for the first time.

17:40.69
Tyler
Um, just getting back into a flow. Yeah.

17:54.55
podcomm
Somehow interact with you like any ah any like those long distance long tail surprises.

17:58.67
Tyler
Um, not too many once in a while I’ll get an email like well I’ll talk about my mom again. She she actually said she’s like I really enjoyed that last episode and and I spent a long time editing it was our episode 2 episodes ago I think it was anyway. She she she was just catching up on some some of my episodes recently she said I really enjoyed that episode and I was like um I was like that she said it was her favorite and I was like how could that be your favorite because I I enjoyed these other 2 or 3 much more than that one and it was interesting that she said that because I was like.

18:31.73
podcomm
Yeah.

18:36.22
Tyler
What did she like about it because I had to really edit that one a lot because we were having a lot of technical issues with Zoom and delays and and bleeps and blurps. You know, but it was the content’s great and it was a wonderful conversation. So ah, yeah, it’ll be interesting though to to hear from older friends or. People from all over the world that do pick up an older episode and say I didn’t know you interviewed that guy or that girl and that’s really cool and so that’s that is exciting to think about for the yeah.

19:02.54
podcomm
Yeah, it’s nice and it’s timeless. Do you? Um, when you’re talking with someone I Always like to use our conversation so you’re having a conversation with someone that you’re recording. Are you thinking about imaginary audience members in real time. Do you try and juggle that as you’re talking.

19:12.25
Tyler
So yeah.

19:18.69
Tyler
I Am now a little bit more where I’m just like okay if I say this thing am I giving enough context. That’s that’s really hangs me up sometimes and I try to put things in the show notes. Oh by the way the the reference of this. Weird Gig is here and here’s a link to that silly thing we did and but it’s always like it’s It’s something you’re just wanting because right now I know it’s mainly friends and family and they know that most of the people know each other that that I’m interviewing and so been moving forward I Do want to. Think about that more deliberately where it’s like yes this is a person that’s like this and it’s clear and I I have it clearly laid out in the intro and here you go. But.

20:08.86
podcomm
I’m thinking about introductions of guests and episode texts that you write. So I tell everybody on this particular show. This is a street racer. There’s no doors. There’s no seatbelts. There’s I mean like there’s nothing. Um. But mover’s mindset is massively overproduced. The other way we write a very particular type of summary of the episode. We have a hook sentence that’s specially crafted dead last the last thing we do. There’s sent There’s a. Biography of each guest which the guest reviews in advance and we like co-create that is like this massive amount of work to make like and it’s about 150 words of of labor of love and then I use that I read that in as the introduction and I’m I’m just wondering. Do you put a lot of effort into. Crafting like the introductions that you’re tracking or is it just okay I really need 3 items so you’re you’re just more like trying to hit a checklist or or do you like get lost in the rabbit hole of how do I how do I put a bow on this episode so that when people find it. It looks perfectly packaged.

21:07.90
Tyler
I don’t give it much thought. Actually I give maybe maybe 2 or 3 points at the beginning for an intro and just here you go hope you want it. Hope you want to listen hope you don’t push stop yet.

21:21.70
podcomm
Ah, yeah, it’s like the gong show. There’s a dated reference. Don’t push you know, well all right. Tyler will hopefully people haven’t pressed stop and they’ve heard us all the way to the end. Um, but yeah, it’s a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you? Um I know I’ve seen you around I’ll be seeing you around again. It’s always fun.

21:24.28
Tyler
Oh my God don’t put scal on.

21:40.25
podcomm
Um, but I’m probably finding a chance to record and co-create something. So thank you very much for talking about audience.

21:43.63
Tyler
Thank you Craig! This is a lot of fun.