Transcript for "Audience - with Jessica Zou"

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00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Konine Jessica is the host of a podcast called duck tape rocket ship and we were discussing as we do with all of these beforehand and I think the topic we’re going to pick on today is audience.

00:02.90
Jessica Zou
And I’m Jessica Zoe

00:18.47
podcomm
Both the question of who listens to our shows who do we think listens who we know listens and also what does it mean to think about maybe I’m thinking to think about your audience and how does thinking about your audience direct. What your or color what we’re creating so that’s what I think but. Talking about today is that sound good to you Jessica um, when I first asked you and said I because I do this to everyone I say what are the things that jump to mind when I say let’s record a 20 minute podcast. What made you say audience.

00:38.25
Jessica Zou
Yeah, that sounds good to me. Thank you.

00:51.52
Jessica Zou
And. I Audience is mysterious to me right Now. Um, even though I know who I created my podcast for. But I’m now sure exactly who my audiences are at this point.

01:22.29
podcomm
And do you So So Duct Tape Bracke chip is I’m going to say made for the people who are directly involved or who maybe you wish were more directly involved in their school systems in their school district in their local educational programs. Um, have you gotten any? um, direct feedback from like you know, do you have any data points that say I have reached my specifically targeted audience.

01:48.76
Jessica Zou
Um, I know that a teachers listen to it because I got a feedback. Yeah.

01:56.71
podcomm
Do they? ah and do they like it or is it like because that can go either way they can be like we listen to this language. This would be different or they can listen to it like yes more of this.

02:09.69
Jessica Zou
Um, it’s interesting because um, one teacher I knew actually shared my episode I think that that was third episode. He shared with his community and said.

02:17.36
podcomm
Um.

02:26.31
podcomm
Um.

02:27.11
Jessica Zou
Give it the listen and um, another teacher told me that hey I listened to your podcast. Um, yeah, so it’s interesting because I didn’t really no parents has told me.

02:45.93
podcomm
Um, I’m wondering if it’s gonna take a while for like the first parent to find it and then cause I’m I mean I’m I’m not a parent of of you know if you don’t have kids in a school district. So.

02:46.50
Jessica Zou
That they listen to it yet. But the feedback I got at teachers from teachers.

03:04.84
podcomm
But I’m betting that parents move in clicks that there’s like you know, 7 parents who all’t know each other really well and then there’s a completely separate group of 7 parents that know each other really well and I’m thinking your um, the audience is going to sort of like move ripples move outwards in ripples. Um. Do you? So do you create like when you create an episode. Are you thinking this episode might be better for teacher like you know one and that you’re doing. Do you have like this one’s for teachers this one’s for parents or is each one on the topic. Do you think would apply to both of those audiences.

03:40.95
Jessica Zou
Ah yes I actually thought thought about it and um I think um because all my guests are current parents or you know like a recent experience to public school parents. All of them are um, almost like ah you know on the receiving end of the um public schools and so it’s almost like a feedback. All my episodes are kind of like a feedback for the providers.

04:10.81
podcomm
Um.

04:18.31
podcomm
Um, were you imagining So that’s like a certain direction were you imagining that direction when you created the project or were you hoping to you know because you could hope to find an audience and then get them to interact more with the school district or you could.

04:18.82
Jessica Zou
Of the service.

04:37.40
podcomm
Find an audience and hope to change their mind based on what the school district says through your podcast like there’s a whole different whole bunch of different directions that you could imagine that anybody could imagine when they build any podcast show. Did you have a particular directionality like that in mind when you created the show.

04:54.22
Jessica Zou
Um, actually I do um, it’s It’s actually slightly different from what I just said um the directions that I thought about was creating this. Um. It’s almost like this like a one maybe opportunity for for an individual parent to be heard and then to be understood and then kind of like I’m hoping.

05:22.12
podcomm
Um.

05:30.92
Jessica Zou
To kind of like to create this little motivation. Wow you know this is important I just shared something very important and deep to my heart deep. You know I can’t connect with this person or I’m talking about something that I believe deep in my heart.

05:50.39
podcomm
That’s important.

05:50.44
Jessica Zou
And yeah, important and to care about my kid or my kids and um, how can I make this louder or how can I make what I believe to be heard.

06:06.13
podcomm
Um, I go ahead.

06:08.14
Jessica Zou
In this. So it’s almost like ah um, if every single person in the school community have this feelings I think collectively, there’s an opportunity. For us to actually really see each other. Oh you care about the same thing I agree because I care about the same thing too because what I find is very hard in the school community is because there’s a narrative. There’s a narrative that a lot of people have even me had you know like when I first started the public schools is that I’m not important my voice is not important I’m waiting for someone else to make it better for me and that’s all I can hope for. For my children’s education when dealing with a um, a big system like a public schools. Otherwise you will have to join the pta to have your voice heard or to feel the importance. Of your contribution. It’s almost a feel like ah you know the 2 ends that the word where do we fit in as individual so I feel like ah you know the the general narrative. For the public school parents. Are you know we’re just waiting for someone to get it better for us because we’re not important or nobody’s gonna hear hear our voice or it’s not important to hear it because what you gonna do? What can you do? What can you change.

07:51.27
podcomm
Um.

07:56.44
Jessica Zou
And I want to change that.

07:57.80
podcomm
Have you done anything else I saw him imagining like a visual thinker I’m imagining all the all the people who would hear one of your episodes and if that episode is apparent and you’re amplifying their voice then it seems to me like. You would want to figure out how to how to enable the other members of your audience to um, don’t know what a good word is to like also you know like like if I say something on the show like this is what I you know my issue that I see and then the other parents want to go me too like you know they want to plus one that is. Like the social way of doing it and on podcasts just like how the technology works right? like you and I know this inside out. There’s no way really to do that or or like yeah they can go to their favorite podcast app and they can plus 1 or like or share your show or that episode of your show but your it sounds to me like your. Doing something even harder which is trying to get the other members of the audience the second the third the fourth member of the audience to somehow put their efforts behind that other audience member and I’m just wondering have you thought about that like you’re you’re trying to get them to. Maybe rally together and like have you thought about that as a challenge that you’re facing and maybe have you tried to do anything in that in that direction or try and solve that.

09:21.45
Jessica Zou
Um, yeah podcast is just a part of the work I do so I am um a member in our school leadership team and podcast is actually. This is ah um, my way of ah solving um a challenge that I’m ah facing as a parent representative in the school leadership team. Um, traditionally it’s if there is no like ah um, the feedback system for example, parent of feedback system established in the in the local school. You can only rely either on the pta or rely on your personal network in the school but from the blast your experience neither of them I don’t believe neither of them. Fully represent. Everyone’s voice or most of people’s opinions or thoughts or experiences that they had um this is especially important for the past year and um thought about reach how to to each individual parent. Um, which is can be also challenging because there’s a hundreds of family you know in our school and also I thought about what you know what are the ways that ah um, I can really. Encouraging parents to be part of something because changing the narrative like I said previously is kind of hard when we have this narrative like when we join the public school system. Yeah so um, it is a very. Um, I’m gonna say this Craig this is almost like you know, um, a part of um, a piece of a puzzle that I can see and I wanted to put together.

11:42.74
podcomm
Right? right.

11:49.23
Jessica Zou
Because there are um more stories or more understanding or more um, um narratives that I do share on my website.

12:01.68
podcomm
Um, that’s sounds go to say is where else do where else can the audience members like the people listening to your particular show and its episodes where else can that audience engage um are you you. Are you trying to get them to engage with you or you’re trying to have them create their you know engage as their own community and oh by the way Jessica is also here like there’s different ways you could try and structure that and different platforms. You could try to build that on I’m just wondering what what What else have you built in parallel to the duct tape.

12:27.84
Jessica Zou
Yeah, yeah.

12:35.29
podcomm
Rocket chip which I love the I Love your the image of the mental image and the actual image of a rocket ship made of the duct tape is awesome, but sorry what else have you but what else have you built to go with your podcast.

12:44.22
Jessica Zou
Yeah, so that’s exploration. Um I’m I’m trying to figure it out. Um I think that ah the local school community. Um, maybe the first step is to raise the question where can. Where can all of us find ah like-minded people in our local school community and if you are able to find someone that believes the same thing where you know enjoy listening to this in the. If. It’s possible to get together and to talk about this and then to say hey you know we are not a Pca member and we’re in the public schools. What can we do to come together and to have our voice heard. So yeah, so that’s part of the things that I am exploring and I’m really hoping to create some examples in my local school and then figure out you know, like what? what are the piece that’s needed. Completely built something.

13:57.23
podcomm
And you mentioned earlier that you’ve got a couple to maybe 3 um, specific educators you know in the school district who have heard the show and and thought that it was worth sharing which is about the highest. Um. Highest compliment that podcasters get is when somebody actually says yo listen to this that that’s about as good as it gets um, have have you heard anything like from the administration like sometimes I hear about like bureaucratic layers where the teachers they all like x but the bureaucracy and the. School board is all like no not expert doing y and I’m I’m thinking that it almost could wind up with 3 different fiefdoms here. You have the parents and then you have the administrators and then separately you have the educators have you gotten any feel for is the administration. Noticing and and or engaging or feeding you any information about the project.

14:48.48
Jessica Zou
I Know that our school district know about my show I know that? ah um, given what’s happened in our school district last year the superintendent.

14:54.52
podcomm
Is that good or is that bad.

15:08.12
Jessica Zou
Um, resign her position before the term was before the full term. So yeah, given that um I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.

15:14.74
podcomm
Um, right.

15:26.33
Jessica Zou
For the school district to to know that there are parents voice out there because our school district actually have have has gone has gone through a couple of lawsuits in the past year about um. Ah, sorry, not about but a lawsuit against a school district on um racist on racism so it was yeah it was big news for Seattle it’s a Seattle public school.

16:00.41
podcomm
Right? And yeah and the school district would only have so many you know resources. There’s only a certain number of people in the administration they can only do so many things and their you know Primary job is to run the school so you know you can’t I wouldn’t expect them to.

16:04.30
Jessica Zou
So.

16:18.32
podcomm
You know something get all excited and want to turn the whole ship. You know turn laughs because this is cool but I’m I’m wondering if you do you do you see opportunities where the administration or the teachers are doing something that you’d want to shine a light on so you you can use your podcast to shine. Ah, to shine a light or to give a platform to teach. Ah sorry I misspoke to parents but you can also say like just for example, hey guys you know everybody listening you know the school district has this online community board system and our kids are all using it. But why don’t we use it too So have you considered Using. Um. The podcast to shine a light other things in the administration that you wish they would do more of.

17:01.52
Jessica Zou
Um, that’s a probably going to be in the different season that I would consider because you know like ah anyone would um, anyone focusing on Education. It is. It is a ah the reason that it’s just getting so big and then it’s hard to change. Anything is challenging to change anything is because it’s such a complicated system.

17:34.30
podcomm
Um.

17:37.15
Jessica Zou
And that there are so many things that you can talk about in a focus on so I wanted to focus on 1 thing and not necessarily um, um. How how how should I describe this I wanted to focus on 1 thing in a get get it to a deeper level. Um rather than focusing um multiple things at the same time.

18:11.65
podcomm
That’s a good point I probably make the opposing mistake too often and I’m I’m just watching the time so we’ve been really talking about a specific audience like the the audience for Jessica show and. Part of what I’m thinking the whole time is like your audience is nothing like the audiences that I think are listening to my shows and I’m I’m wondering like ooh can we find can you and I find some is there some lesson that we can take from. But we’ve been talking about like we we it looks to me like we know exactly who your audience is supposed to be. We may not know which of the parents but it’s probably 10 out of these 4000 parents but is there anything that we can take away to think about audiences in general about. Like how to engage them.

19:08.51
Jessica Zou
Yeah I think that’s that’s an interesting question the way that you ask it? Ah yeah, no, no, no apologizelogizing and I mean that I mean that’s interesting because.

19:18.91
podcomm
I’m notorious I’m sorry.

19:28.22
Jessica Zou
I Think a um audience is generally tied to the goal of our podcast. Um, so for so I’m using my own podcasts. As example, yeah so engaging. With the audience. Um the guests that I invite are the parents. But interestingly I’m really hoping the audience are different group of people. Um, really wishing you know like a my podcasts are having some special. Um my guests all have a special angles and insight about their experiences and um, which is. May not be a lot of experiences of the audiences that in the public schools that I Really hope that other audiences can hear that and then to feel like ah you know I’m special to um so when I reach out to to my art to to my potential guests. More potential guests in the school district I’m hoping that it’s you know it’s a encouragement almost like ah oh I see somebody did this and I think you know I can do this too in the way I don’t know if that answers your question.

20:57.80
podcomm
Yeah, and well I Definite Love the question I asked has a ah definite answer. But I like everything that we’ve been saying here. Um a podcast and its audience is ah is a very much ah, a chicken and egg question Like. You could just make a podcast and ignore who it’s supposed to be for I mean it’s probably wise if you think about what am I doing what am I creating Why am I creating it but you don’t you can ignore audience entirely and just record um and that’s more of what I’m doing with many of the things that I’m doing this show is actually I know exactly who it’s for I could name names right. Um, and but what you’re doing is very much the other way you are specifically I mean you don’t know everybody in the school district but you probably know a lot of the people like you would point to them in the supermarket and you’re saying I’m trying to create this thing I’m trying to provide this service I’m trying to highlight those people right there and.

21:43.96
Jessica Zou
You can.

21:54.73
podcomm
I Think that’s a very I want to say unusual but I don’t mean it in a bad way like unusual like Wow, that’s even harder than what I’m doing. That’s an unusual way to do it to have a a specific you actually know who these people really are um and it it sounds to me like it’s making it easier for you to figure Out. Who should you talk to and what should be in this episode. It doesn’t necessarily make podcasting any easier like getting people to listen is still hard but in some ways it sounds like that makes that a little easier.

22:23.24
Jessica Zou
Um, yes, it does. Yeah I.

22:26.98
podcomm
To all right? Well any last thoughts before I hit stop I mean I could talk forever if we could talk about things forever. But I think that’s a good place.

22:34.48
Jessica Zou
Yeah, oh thank you for all these amazing questions. But.

22:40.39
podcomm
Um, I just go I don’t know why don’t I ask Jessica that’s all I do I just ask people I don’t know so so but no, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you um had a lot of great conversations previously and glad to have had this one. So thanks for taking the time today. Jessica.

22:55.83
Jessica Zou
Thank you Craig that was fun.