Transcript for "Alignment - with Dafna Gold Melchior"

(Interactive content will replace this message when viewed in the Forum.)

00:00.00
podcomm
Hello I’m Craig Konine Daphna Gold Meshore is a self-described person who helps people clarify their high stakes messages I really like when people are really clear like it’s 1 thing to have a concise statement i.

00:01.29
Dafna
Hi I’m daphna Gold millshire.

00:19.59
podcomm
Do X But when you have a very particular X that high stakes message part I Really think that says a lot about how thoughtful you are just in general but also about how thoughtful you are with what you do to help the people that you’re trying to serve and if you haven’t been on the show with me. Please join Me. We do a little conversation beforehand so daph and I already know we’re going to talk about alignment so I wanted to point out your focus on high stakes messages and what you’re doing professionally is something that you’ve clearly thought a lot about and I’m wondering what your thoughts are about. Your initial podcast that I saw you create was and I know you I don’t want to make it sound like you did. Ah you took the easy way out, but you picked something that was really easy. It was a low-hanging fruit and then you really took the time to think no wait is that really what I want to be podcasting about So Can you tell me about Maybe why you changed From. What your podcast was originally was originally was to what it is now and about how alignment was the thing that you really used as the pivot point for that change.

01:21.52
Dafna
Absolutely thank you so this is actually a fun way of coming full circle because you Craig were actually my very first interviewee ever on that first podcast you remember.

01:31.65
podcomm
I Do recall yes and it was a very funny because I was a good choice for hey, let’s talk about how do you create like physically create workspace for yourself I’m like oh I’m I’m a space creating process not but yes anyway, sorry.

01:46.43
Dafna
It was super fun. So what happened with the whole podcasting idea was I jumped into Seth Goodin’s podcasting workshop which is actually how I got to meet you lucky me without really knowing what was going to be expected I thought I was going to learn the technology I had been interviewing people in pr capacities for years and I thought.

01:54.40
podcomm
Um.

02:05.70
Dafna
So now I’ll learn the tech side of it and it kind of reminded me of radio which I love during my underred and communications and I thought great we’ll run with it on lesson number one it was like Okay, what is your podcast about I was like Eke I need to know what my podcast is about I don’t have one let alone know what? it’s about.

02:13.59
podcomm
Yes, well.

02:22.80
Dafna
I thought hmm all right? So for the purpose of the exercise I guess the easiest thing to go for would be something that was actually aligned with what I do professionally what I know about what I have information about what I feel like I could actually contribute to people through and that was working with researchers and entrepreneurs. My first concept during the workshop was okay I’m going to make a podcast about researchers and entrepreneurs specifically from Israel where I’m from who I usually work with locally and it would be a way of giving listeners insights about the entrepreneurial and research journeys of these professionals. Through the prism of the importance of clear communication along their evolution of their of their professions and that’s what I used for the purpose of the exercise throughout the workshop. But then I just didn’t do it. The workshop came and go came and went and I didn’t actually create a podcast and I kept thinking about it but nothing really happened.

03:05.75
podcomm
Um.

03:20.34
Dafna
And then when covid hit it suddenly occurred to me wait a minute suddenly lots of people are thrown into this situation of working remotely something. They’re not familiar with I had always done some sort of hybrid combination of working on my own backoffice stuff from home and going to work with clients onsite with them and I said okay maybe. Could interview different people who already have some experience at working remotely and they could provide their wisdom to people that it were just thrown into the situation and that’s how you became my first interviewee and I did what was it maybe 14 episodes within a couple of weeks of interviewing all kinds of really fun. Wonderful smart people.

03:46.61
podcomm
Um.

03:57.97
Dafna
With their insights on organizing your space and on cybersecurity so that nobody hacks your stuff and on how to juggle right? How to juggle your kids and your cats and whatever else and whoever else is home with you while you’re trying to work from home and just a whole bunch of topics pretty.

04:02.10
podcomm
Um, right right? Yeah creating boundaries and yeah, keep the kids out right.

04:17.80
Dafna
Soon They started repeating themselves and I felt like I didn’t really have much more of intelligence and essence and substance to add on these topics and we were all pretty much at that point working from home and there was.

04:30.48
podcomm
Yeah, if yeah, if you didn’t listen to the podcast you figured it out on your own right.

04:35.70
Dafna
The novelty kind of wore off and I thought okay and in any case, this isn’t me This isn’t what I do I don’t have any intrinsic motivation to be known as daphna the remote work person because I’m not daphna the remote workperson.

04:40.61
podcomm
Um.

04:46.41
podcomm
Um, as it as it like I’m going to say as it as it like faded or coasted to a halt. You know you do like 13 and then 14 but as you coasted to a halt was that obvious right? as it was ending that you that like I’m not really in my niche.

05:02.76
Dafna
Yes, yes, yes I love talking to people so having the conversations was fun and was a reward in and of itself. No matter what and it was like this creative project that was fun to do and.

05:04.16
podcomm
Or or is that something that you only noticed. Yeah so that was part like really clear.

05:19.17
Dafna
You know it was like okay check have applied what was learned in workshop can do podcast.

05:20.39
podcomm
Yes, yeah, it’s actually easy for you like I know how to do this push this button pull all over tough poop and everybody else is like Wow you made a podcast like that’s the easy part.

05:27.16
Dafna
Ah, have have earned continuous card carrying membership in the podcasters community of Seth of Seth Goodin’s workshop alumni which was a very important card to keep carrying for me because they’re really fabulous people and I and I love the justification to keep interacting with everybody.

05:34.51
podcomm
Yes.

05:46.91
Dafna
And but in terms of motivation when we think about certainly Seth’s philosophy about a podcast as a way to find your voice or understand that close to none of us are ever going to make any money off of podcasts or in fact, we’re actually going to invest quite a bit of money even in the basics.

05:58.43
podcomm
Um, right.

06:06.11
Dafna
The basics of equipment the basics of hosting right? It becomes a semi-expenive Hobby rather than right it becomes an expense rather than a line of of a stream of income right? So I would say even more so that the motivation to continue doing it would have.

06:07.96
podcomm
Yep. Um, right, non-trivial.

06:18.96
podcomm
Rain.

06:25.89
Dafna
To be that you actually derive pleasure Joy satisfaction a sense of meaning by doing it and hopefully maybe that you’re actually contributing to others by doing it and it just seems to me that all of that would grow if the topic itself.

06:35.19
podcomm
Um.

06:43.73
Dafna
Was something that I felt aligned with is something that I felt was in the same category and in the same basket and in the same domain expertise as what I do professionally I felt like maybe I would be able to reclaim my motivation to continue having these conversations to continue publishing them.

06:44.54
podcomm
Um.

07:01.72
Dafna
To have interesting asides to have intelligent questions to have some insights of my own for the Intros Even if I continued and I have continued doing interviews rather than hosts on Mike Although it’s also a topic that I feel like there’s certainly much more chance that I could at some point get up the guts to have an intelligent host on mike.

07:09.94
podcomm
Um.

07:16.12
podcomm
Right.

07:20.65
Dafna
If it’s a topic that I feel like I know plenty about.

07:22.52
podcomm
So You almost how long was it just roughly from your initial I have an idea for a podcast I’m going to take this course and it’s going to be about X to to when you pivoted and you really almost pivoted back to exactly the same thing but it’s it’s not quite… It’s not exactly the same. But how long was that that that whole journey.

07:42.81
Dafna
More than a year for sure more than a year

07:46.22
podcomm
So do you remember? Um, so now that you’ve um, you’ve pivoted or you’ve rebooted. Do you really remember what you felt like when you had the first padcast idea like does it feel like that I and I’m going to guess that that was a very fresh new idea and this is really cool and I’m energized. Does it feel as fresh and new and as as energized after you’ve pivoted or and now that you’ve realigned.

08:09.69
Dafna
The topic itself does or even if it doesn’t feel fresh because I have been in this niche for quite a few years now I mean I’ve been doing some shape or form of working with researchers and entrepreneurs for over 20 years at this point so I don’t know if fresh is the right word but it is. Again, that’s why I think the word alignment is absolutely right? It’s aligned. It feels right? It feels like home. It feels familiar in a good sense. It feels like I have what to contribute it feels it feels right? It feels right it feels like I’m a fish in water.

08:28.88
podcomm
Oh.

08:44.12
podcomm
I Really I’m glad that you’ve dug into how it feels because that was what I was doing with that terrible question. Not realizing it was trying to understand like you’ve got this? um.

08:51.35
Dafna
Ah.

08:59.34
podcomm
Something to think of like a desktop model. You know like oh if only we could try this on a desktop like you just did you. You had an idea for a podcast. It was inspiring and it cool and I’m really psched up not and then all right? Well I’m going to change the topic and do things then it kind of winds down and then you come back and you have this feeling again. So it’s like this perfect little test case of. Here’s something that you’ve been doing for 20 years but now in this slightly different but not very much different incarnation. It’s Motivating. It’s inspiring. It’s obviously energizing. It’s something you’re passionate about um and I think that’s ah um. Ah, light you into the tunnel for like for those of us who are like boy I hope I’m able to make this not be a chore after 3 years of just like your desktop experiment here seems to say if if what you’re doing is aligned with the thing. The bigger thing that you’re passionate about you’re going to be be passionate about podcasting. Um.

09:48.88
Dafna
I think I think that it becomes less of a chore and more of a hobby if it’s a topic of your own choosing rather than something that somebody assigned to you or something that you feel in those cases you should get paid for it right? If it’s.

09:52.33
podcomm
I Think so.

10:00.26
podcomm
But but even then you know just because it’s really tough to connect the dots through the money. So it’s like I’m doing this job that I really don’t like but I get paid really good and the money enables me to do all these other things. That’s not really enough after ah after a bunch of years eventually. There’s not enough money plenty enough tea in China you know to to make it actually be fun and energizing. Um is there is there anything about um so so now your I know your podcast is like not back up and running but like rebooted. The new thing is up and running is there anything about it that. You had to avoid so like when you started it over was there anything you went. Yeah I really want to do a podcast but I am not doing x was there anything about it that you avoided to avoid like poisoning the well does that make sense.

10:47.80
Dafna
I Can’t think of anything specific that I avoided. Um, let’s think I’m not sure I understood what? what I could possibly answer with that.

10:55.47
podcomm
Well I’m wondering if so for me, some things that I do like with this particular podcast show is like I don’t like to edit I also have really bad hearing so editing is asking me to edit his dome. So I I don’t like to edit so I’m like all right I’m making a podcast and I’m doing no editing. And that’s what I was wondering if there’s anything about your current project that you had intentionally see because as an experienced podcaster having done a course and having done a podcast you would be well aware of like editing or maybe recording Intros or like music like… There’s all these things that we as podcasters know about I’m just wondering there was anything that you had decided to Elite. Um, but no is a completely valid answer to my question. Yeah, what good but you did actually go ahead.

11:36.74
Dafna
But I didn’t decide in advance I didn’t decide in advance to refrain from anything in particular but I did actually I did put into practice Ipropove what you just mentioned about music and interest I did I did. Create a general intro for the podcast and then I have the background music that I I create on a specific episode intro based on kind of a synopsis about the person that I’m interviewing as the intro of that episode and there’s a really short outro that’s consistent throughout the podcast and.

12:00.80
podcomm
Um.

12:09.99
Dafna
The fact that it’s aligned with what I do leaves me still wondering even now after 20 episodes. What’s the fine line and the balance between listeners being able to get value out of the podcast in and of itself as its own standalone product. The podcast is not meant to be a Pr mechanism strictly a pr mechanism for me through which to advertise my business. However, since it is aligned with what I do I feel like I do need to maybe I’ve taken it to an extreme that people could listen to.

12:32.20
podcomm
Um, right.

12:45.13
Dafna
Probably all the episodes and still not know exactly what it is that I do professionally nor deduce from it. What service I’m offering. So maybe I’m actually doing myself a disservice that if I’m creating this product which is aligned with what I do. Why shouldn’t I be able to use it gently delicately in good taste.

12:46.56
podcomm
Um, yes.

13:03.12
podcomm
Right.

13:04.80
Dafna
As a means of providing intrinsic value in and of its own for people to listen to and to hopefully get valuable insights by listening to the interviews and at the same time I feel like I still need to find the best way of leveraging these. Interviews or maybe the outro or maybe the show notes or maybe some sort of add on to it so that people could connect the dots speaking of connecting the dots listening to such an interview and say ah so that’s what she does ooh we need somebody to help us with that.

13:31.33
podcomm
Frame.

13:37.36
podcomm
Um, right? So I had hit 2 thoughts one and this I um I don’t think this one’s necessarily worth pursuing. But one thought I had was like what’s the big challenge like what hurdles are you facing like when you like here’s the thing that I do generally big picture. And and this podcast is aligned with that. But when I try to make these podcasts I keep running into this problem. So that’s one thing I’ll be curious about because if I feel like your alignment would help you figure out a way to solve those problems. Um, so maybe like I’ll I’ll leave that as a question is there anything about it. That’s like oh this is a problem.

14:12.55
Dafna
The thing that I find most problematic about self-promotion is that it very quickly becomes obnoxious and and I am physically allergic to obnoxious self-promotion you know I itch when I read.

14:20.28
podcomm
Are you? yes.

14:29.40
Dafna
Social media post in which somebody is talking about how fabulous their service is I’m just really really averse to that and I.

14:35.91
podcomm
Linkedin Linkedin is sliding that way. I mean like Facebook is like whatever you know, but like Linkedin is starting to slide toward these breathless triple-spacd. Everything is awesome and I’m so excited for being part of it and I’m just like I mean that’s cool like definitely say. Thank you to people who gave you. Access to some opportunity but there’s also there’s nothing here you know and that’s I mean me wagging on Linkedin a little bit but.

14:54.98
Dafna
exactly exactly so so I totally would not want to become the person that at the end of a post that I wrote or at the end of a podcast that I shipped I would not want one person to come out of that with the experience. Okay I want 10 minutes of my time like ah of my life back. You know.

15:13.87
podcomm
Um, right.

15:14.91
Dafna
You just you just totally wasted my time on your own disgusting self-promotion I don’t want to do that I don’t want to be that person. It really bothers me when other people do that and I feel like there’s a need for a more delicate more subtle. Maybe 1 of the concepts in. Another of Seth Godin’s wonderful workshops that I attended the marketing seminar that was kind of a struggle for me was and and I tried to adopt his philosophy about how if you reconceptualize marketing instead of the way. Lots of people think of it as you’re trying to so forcefully sell something to somebody that they don’t want no.

15:49.54
podcomm
Um.

15:52.11
Dafna
You’re actually trying to generously solve. Someone’s problem if what you’re holding in your hands is not the solution to their problem. That’s fine. You move on they move on. They’re not your target audience. That’s fine on an intellectual level that makes perfect sense to me. But when you actually have to translate that into your own.

16:05.30
podcomm
Right.

16:11.10
Dafna
Self-promotional messaging I don’t know I just the the the girl in me who was taught to be modest who was taught never to be arrogant that arrogance is this terrible sin. You know that you’re not the 1 to sing your own praises that.

16:18.99
podcomm
Um.

16:26.12
Dafna
All of all of that in my education and my upbringing in a lot of things that I identify with even when I’m in charge of my own philosophy. At this point I agree with a lot of that and it makes it hard to find an appropriate measure of self promotion.

16:32.91
podcomm
Yeah.

16:44.27
Dafna
So that on 1 hand, you’re actually helping those who need you find you and understand what the service is through which you could actually be serving them and balancing between that and not shoving your service in their face.

16:51.89
podcomm
Um.

16:57.54
podcomm
I agree. Absolutely I think um I always how many podcasts do I have four if I had had a fifth one that I got rid of it’s like and there’s always for me I I feel like I’m trying to hide like I would want to just say like. Welcome to the podcast or community podcast. You know today I’m talking to daphna and and if you notice I didn’t I haven’t said the url for where the podcaster community is look I haven’t said anything right? I haven’t told nobody knows what I do and really, that’s me hiding and I probably should get over that I should be like yeah you should go to podcaster community. Or quite honestly I think if you search google podcast or space community I think we’re on the first page now. Um, just go there just go there like I haven’t I haven’t counted but I think um, you know, go there and we we put this. They put this up and I’m just like yeah but if people really wanted to know they could search but I’m like but people don’t have time so just tell them where it is so.

17:36.19
Dafna
Woo. How exciting.

17:49.91
podcomm
I’ve been trying to push back against my own hiding. But for me I don’t know what your experience but for me I can excuse me I can be the class clown I can be the obnoxious. My uncle says ruode crude and ill mannered I can be the attention seeking. You know. Stereotypical american um so I work really hard to step on that and to me I feel like I’m steering back toward that a little bit when I have to start talking about this is what mover’ mindset does which is a thing that I do I had 103 episodes of movers’ mindset’ I’m coming up on 500 episodes on my little box of quotes podcasts. It’s like. Saying that stuff makes me feel skeevy. But you know that’s real like those are real accomplishments. So I think I think you make a great point about when when all of us any of us are mindful about how much of us should be present like how much of.

18:30.31
Dafna
They are.

18:44.16
podcomm
Craig like the Craig story or the daphna story. How much of that should be actually in the podcast and how much of it should be explicitly I you know the first person version of it in the podcast versus like you a lot of times guests spring up like oh I met you when you were helping and you know and like it kind of comes out like. Second person you know so I think when we’re mindful of that that that enables us to be more intentional about it and I think that’s the best way to do. It is to just to you know, think what do we want people to take away from what we’re creating and then to try and you know change the mix.

19:18.33
Dafna
Totally I’ve also gotten comments from people on some of the episodes in which there was more daphna or less daffna I’ve actually gotten comments. Well there was a ah nice bit of duffna in that in that interview even though it was about you inviting this guest and highlighting their story.

19:24.90
podcomm
Um.

19:37.54
Dafna
And talking about their entrepreneurship or their research we felt more of your presence and it was fun. It was fun to listen to and maybe both of us kind of tend to be so modest that maybe we’re robbing our listeners of the fact that they chose to listen to our podcast.

19:54.54
podcomm
Um, yeah.

19:56.14
Dafna
Not only for our guests but also because they actually want to hear how we as the hosts of it are providing our insights and our knowledge and what we have to say about something. Yeah.

20:01.87
podcomm
Yeah what’s our alignment What’s our passion. That’s yeah, it’s a great point. Um I stopping is the hardest part I think that’s a great place to stop right? There? Um, as always. It’s a pleasure to talk to you and um, we we had like a little. Craig caused oopsie with Zencastr originally so it took us a little longer than normal. So I think we actually had more conversations about talking about what are we going to talk about so I think that worked out really well to talk about alignment. So thanks for taking a half hour out of your day to sit down and chat.

20:30.99
Dafna
Thank you for inviting me 2 things Craig have a gorgeous summer stay healthy bye.

20:35.15
podcomm
You too bye.